Question for women...

I believe it becomes cheating when it start to carry the same characteristics as an affair (weather emotional, ONS or long term).
For me personally I didn’t have an issue with porn in moderation or on occasion, like viewing it together (never happened), while I was indisposed; that time of the month, traveling for extended amount of time or surgery recovery (but it was way more than that).
The characteristics I’m referring to are the hiding, lying, the negative behaviors and thoughts towards me and the relationship, risky choices, acting out towards me with the shame, guilt, resentment and contempt that is the same as whith physical and emotional cheating. I can tell you finding out the truth of the depth and scope feels no different than the affair. Now I completely despise porn and wish it never existed just like the other women.

 

EXACTLY! I feel the exact same way!

 

My philosophy has always been "If you wouldn't do it in person, you shouldn't be doing it on your phone." pretty much the same as what you're saying, @wifeofaddict01 - about the prostitutes having sex in front of him. If they find doing that as horrible and cheating, what's the difference between that and watching it on a phone? It's the exact same principle. It's just that the porn industry tricks them into thinking that it's harmless because it's digital. NOPE. Not harmless in the least.

I certainly agree with the lying aspect you are talking about, @Jennica - That is when it becomes a betrayal of the relationship. That being said, if a person in a relationship is fully aware of the extent of their partner's PMO, and they are truly alright with it and doesn't affect anything, then that relationship shouldn't have a problem. (This is a very rare case and I've never seen/read of one.) When it is secretive, it is cheating your partner of the relationship they thought they had/could have. It may not be actually physically unfaithful, as in they have not touched another woman, but it is a hard betrayal of trust in a relationship. I use the word 'cheating' as a broad spectrum here. More like cheating at a game of poker, or any game for that matter, where you are doing things on the side/in secret to give yourself an advantage in the game. (Damn, did I just come up with a super great analogy or what? #humblebrag)

Personally, I have always thought of PM as cheating because I am not present for my partner's sexual gratification. That may be self-given, but it is still something I would rather he wait to do with me. I felt cheated out of intimacy with him, because I could always tell when he wasn't present during sex. I need him to be present and aware, not in a post-PM brain fog. Plus, comparing myself to a porn star never felt good. I never felt I could be good enough for him, not with all these women at his disposal.

 

I cannot tell you how much this mirrors my views. I never had issues with Pornagraphy, hell i even owned my own back way when (and still do in the form of girly erotic novels). My main issue with it was I'd constantly been told my SO had no drive, didn't feel like it, put on too much weight, excuse after excuse for not having sex with me. I even suggested porn to 'get him in the mood' before I discovered his porn. For me the porn became a big deal when I found he DID have an active sex life, just not with me, his wife. Using porn INSTEAD of having sex with me. That's when it became cheating on me. That's when the porn became a problem, years before I even found out it was an addiction!

 

@WantsToBelieve
I get you!
For me my first DDay was 4 years ago before I found his “special collection” that was a DDay #2. First it was him having a ONS that still horrifies me to this day. It took the 4 more years for DDay #2. I certainly feel at this point he had a very long term affair with countless other women (in his head) for years and had treated me as such, as though it was one woman, many ONS or thousands of women on a screen there is no difference to me at this point with how it feels. It all hurts the same.

 

I consider porn cheating because he gave the time and energy to porn that I believe should have given to me.
When he was in the military and we were 8 hours apart, I looked the other way about porn because I had no issues with it. Fast forward a few years when now he is home, we have children, and he is spending 3+ hours in the bathroom every day but we are not having sex (and when we do? He doesn’t orgasm or orgasms w/in 2mins). I confronted him the week before our third child was born.
He planned out time for porn and masturbating, and I got the leftovers. For that reason I consider it cheating.

 

I consider anything that you wouldn't do with me right there cheating. If you have to hide it, don't do it.

 

Absolutely, a good rule of thumb I have tried to teach my kid as I personally live by. If you feel you have to hide it either out of shame (cheating yourself) and or guilt (cheating the other person). If you can’t openly talk about it with with your SO/parents then its a good self indicator you shouldn’t be doing it, it’s your conscious telling you it’s not ok.
If you find yourself unsure it’s better to not do it until you speak to the important person in your life first. Then yes you are cheating yourself and the other person.

 

-Because it took sexual energy from our relationship, took intimacy from our marriage, involved lying, resulted in my hisband not wanting me, but wanting others.

 

In my opinion is cheating because the only way to have and MO is thinking that you can feel and have that person in real. And also because you don’t lie to the person that you love. If you lie it is because your actions are wrong and you need to hide.
They talk and have MO with those lady’s because some of them pay them attention and for free. So they feel important. We need to remember that is not normal and that’s why they need help.

 

This thread caught my eye, and I had to reply. I consider PMO cheating because my man, a person I give all myself to, sits in front of a screen, when I am not there, looks at another women's naked body, gets aroused by what she is doing or saying (and what is being done to her) and reaches O while watching her. As simple as that. Digital or real, it is cheating.

 

So I think I absolutely consider it an infedelity but maybe not necessarily cheating. If that makes sense. I think he has undoubtedly been unfaithful to me by everything everyone said here but I also feel that I’d feel very different if acted out with a live person. Like I think I could say my husband neglected me or my husband was unfaithful but I don’t think I could say to someone that Husband cheated.

This reminds me of an article from Covenant eyes that broke down why porn IS cheating. I loved how it was broken down and articulated. I just personally would be much more traumatized if he physically acted with a live person and was touching them instead of touching himself.

 

Yeah, it is true it would be worse for sure. But you know, loyalty should exist in body, mind and heart. I am not saying it is the same as he would physically be with another woman, but I do not want to compete with some porn star for his attention, and wonder every time I go to bed with him is he actually having sex with me or with one of them. I am loyal in body, mind and heart. I cannot settle for less. But this is my personal opinion obviously

 

THIS! I just had this discussion in our counseling session today. While it’s not an “affair” because it wasn’t another human being, it is infidelity in my eyes because he was unfaithful to me with something else. He took away from me the intimacy, the attention and desire that was to belong to ONLY me, and gave it to something else. He made me the “side chick” to PA. He said that himself as well. That i was secondary. He would feel that he didn’t want to disappoint me due to the ED from PA and so he stopped trying because we couldn’t have sex without it being an issue. He was never honest with me until now (13 years of PA with me and 20 overall) and i thought I was going crazy as to why he couldn’t keep an erection or wanted to be with me. I spent years thinking there was something wrong with me. So now, when I look at it and when I decided to forgive (never forget) that he was unfaithful to me, I have to make him accountable by understanding what he did was just as bad emotionally to me as cheating.

 

Same here. That’s why I get so mad when the PA say oh all women hate porn. That’s not true 60% of women use it in some form. PMO and porn use are two totally different things.

 

The whole it’s not cheating thing is something used by addicts to try justify their behavior. And I’ve gone round and round with addicts on here who insist it’s not the same as cheating. Some admit it’s a betryal but not as bad as cheating. The only person’s opinion that matters is your partner. If she equates it to cheating then it is. Trying to argue with her about how it’s not so bad, does not matter a bit.

 

I don’t think it’s cheating in the usual sense. When it reaches the point of lies, hidden life, replacing sex, then I think it reaches nearer the level of an actual affair.

But I’ve been cheated on for real in a past relationship. I can say it is not the same. I had actual images in my head of my lover having sex with and loving someone other than me. Knowing they touched each other intimately, slept together, ate meals together, called each other. And played me for a fool the whole time. I’m at home cooking, cleaning, working at a job while he was off f*cking her. Getting her smell on him. Kissing him.

Jacking off to images on a screen is not the same as that.

 

My problem exactly.
I am beginning to hate him.

 

Thank you! My husband pushed back so hard on me that it was not cheating, but everything about it felt the same. Tonight he’s one day 29 and we went out to dinner date for the first time in forever. Just when I think I know all i need to about this and can begin healing, he tells me something else and it just hurts all over again. My husband is a writer and has two published books. I found out tonight at dinner that his PA was part of his writing process for the second book. Like it was a habit he was doing to get in the right head space. I swear if I was not in public I dont know how I would have reacted. The reason it hurts is because I’ve always been his biggest cheerleader in him writing and being creative. This one burned. I think I choked on my steak when he told me. He’s been very open and honest about things, but this one took the cake for me. I never thought about him doing his PA while writing, I always gave him the trust I thought he deserved for writing. This week is his Bday and I bought him a new phone and computer so that he could start fresh and be away from the devices he used for his PA. A fresh start is what I was thinking - along with some security and blockers I’ve put in both as well for my own sense of security. So to hear this tonight just ripped my heart back open and I have to figure out if I can trust him to go write again on his own. It did feel like I had been told he “cheated” again while sitting there. I had to politely excuse myself and go to the bathroom. It was rough. I’m home now and can’t even look at him at the moment. Thanks for validating how i felt about feeling cheating on.