Question for women...

Of course. Did he tell you at dinner or did you find out? I only ask because this is often a technique they use. They tell you bad news in public knowing you will not flip out, making it easier on them to deal with. I hate that tactic it is SO unfair. After awhile i just started to freak out anyways! The whole “not cheating” thing is someone still in their addiction, even if not actually PMOing. They don’t just have to overcome the physical acts, but the thought process that comes a long with being a PMO addict. Learning how much their behavior hurts others is very hard for them. So they make up excuses in their mind for why its not all that bad, it also allows them to continue. Am emotionally mature, non addict can look at something like this and see you are hurting, and even if they don’t think its cheating know that you do and not only stop it, but validate your feelings. It does not seem he’s willing to validate. Your feelings. I have been cheated on and i have been with a PMO addict and I have to tell you they felt the same to me, the betryal. What addicts miss is that its the betryal more than the actual act they are committing. Men too are focused on physical. So to a man a woman having a one night stand with another man would hurt them more than her carrying on an emotional affair. To most women the emotional long term affair hurts more than a one night stand. I think that’s a lot of where the disconnect is. Your partner may actually think that it is not cheating, or he may think that it is and be just trying to make himself feel better. But either way if he cannot recognize and validate your feelings, then you will never be able to forgive and trust again. My fiancé (now ex) did this with a lot of things, meaning he felt his opinion was the only one that mattered, and if he had hurt me, he was not sorry because i was overreacting or being unreasonable. The conclusion in his mind was that it should not hurt you, it would not hurt him, so he did nothing wrong or not as wrong as you are making it out to be.

 

WOAH...light bulb moment here .. .. long-term use of porn is equivalent to having a long-term emotional affair with all of those women on the screen. (and "remote" physical too, since it's almost always combined with M)

Maybe that is an obvious statement - but I don't think I have thought of it that directly before.

 

Glad I could help! I think the point here is being able to open your eyes and see that other people think about things differently. And while you may not think what your partner is upset about should be upsetting or think she’s overreacting to her these feelings are totally valid. Once you are able to see that it makes your life and relationships so much easier.

 

I have thought of this exact statement and brought it up to my husband but he insists there was nothing emotional or any emotional connection with anyone he watched in P. I get what he is saying, like he wasn't attached or falling in love with a certain person or something. But to me... yes, it was emotional. Not with each person he saw but with the whole PA in general. I don't really know how to explain it. But yes, that does apply for me and it frustrates me that he doesn't understand it that way.

 

This is exactly the way I feel about it and have described it myself. It’s all the same after experiencing it all with my hubby.

 

Thank you for your words. We had a major argument last night over this after getting home. He actually went to do his run and work out and I went to write here in the forums and in my journal to get my feelings out. Well when it came time for our hour or intimacy last night (we come together and talk and just touch and talk about PA for an hour each night), he was so not there in the headspace. He came to our time timid and I knew he was still wondering where I stood on what he told me AT dinner. I swear I still feel the steak stuck in my throat choking me.... I tried to let it go for a few hours and bring myself back to the positive head space, but when he arrived to our time timid and feeling off, I called him self centered and told him he should be able to be here for me. He said that he is having revelations when speaking about it and that one happen to be what he figured out last night while at dinner. I told him he has to keep them to himself in public then. I am a hot headed person and I will not go through that again or I will get up from the table and leave his ass and he can Uber home. He said he didn't consider my feelings, he didn't think that him having PA as part of his writing process was an issue for me. That is was for him because he began self doubting himself to write without it. I get that... but there are emotions that go in in for me too. Every night I sat alone in bed thinking you're being creative and you're cheating with PA prior to doing the one thing I support you the most in. It's like I just took all the feelings I built back up n the last 30 days as of today, and threw them away. Like we took steps backwards. Today I feel like shit.

This made my day and a light bulb go off for me too: "So to a man a woman having a one night stand with another man would hurt them more than her carrying on an emotional affair." YOU ARE SO DAMN RIGHT! He was upset that I may have spoke to an old friend on the phone that I never dated back in high school. He swore I was going to go have a sexual affair. I told him if I did, I would be justified at this point since he's having a sexual affair with his online stuff. He didn't see it the same way. If I was having an emotional connection with someone he could care less. Actually I think I could deal with this better if HE was having an emotional connection to someone else. Then at least I would know where I stand and be able to pick up my pieces and move on.

 

No, it's not. If a woman considers it cheating for a man to just talk to another woman, is it cheating, just because she feels it is? No, it is not.

 

Really dude? Really?? Who says they are equivalent? Nobody here has. Let me guess - you have a flagellation whip that you use regularly. Please man - have some personal fortitude! I believe in you! You are a man! Don't forget that!

 

And what part of me being a man means that 20 years of hiding secret online porn from my wife doesn't constitute having something thay resemblance an "emotional affair" with online porn?

 

Because PMO is a physical release. Tell me, do you know the names of the kids of any of these porn stars you've seen? Do you know the personal goals and ambitions of these porn stars? Do you know their inner thoughts and feelings? No, you don't. So it's no emotional affair. Don't let these women confuse you and shame you. Shame on them!

 

I think a good way to explain it is that a PMO addict is diverting not just his sexual energy when he PMOs but he’s also creating a barrier to emotional intimacy. So he’s robbing the relationship of a connection of love and of honesty and he’s doing so because he’s choosing pmo over you. That’s the emotional aspect. When people have emotional affairs they divert the non physical intimacy they should be sharing and building with their spouse to someone else. It’s the same thing.

Men are programmed to see it from only the physical aspect. But under that theory it would not be cheating to exchange sexual messages or pictures with another person. I think most agree that that is.

 

He is very selfish at least he’s got that right! And it’s cowardly to tell someone that in public . It robs them of the ability to react.

 

Except a PMO addict is not having an emotional affair with the porn stars. What he's doing is not having an emotional "affair" with his SO. But I agree that he's still inflicting emotional pain on his SO. But porn is not having an emotional affair. I just wanted to make that distinction.

 

While your manners could be better in this whole thread, you have a point. I just pointed out on another thread, that I would possibly narrow it down further and call it something like "intimacy isolation". Since it does not directly "involve" another person, it's not TECHNICALLY an "affair".
But it's just a word. Let people call it what they will. Mincing words is pointless.

 

I can see from a practical perspective what you are saying. But it really is mincing words. Whether it’s cheating emotional cheating betrayal, it still has the same effect on the SO you can call it whatever you want. If she says she considers it cheating you arguing with her about how you don’t think it is will get you nowhere. You can have a difference of opinion. But what’s important is to validate her feelings. So honey I don’t think it’s cheating but I understand that you do and I’m so sorry.

 

Just like the way I get upset when some women use the term 'rape' for so many things that are not rape, I like to use words properly if I can. I think it's important to do that. Otherwise it leads to exaggerations.

 

I think the point that is being missed is that this is a forum where most of the addicts are trying to gain forgiveness from their partners and rebuild relationships. So whether an addict believes pmo is cheating or not arguing with a partner they have betrayed and hurt about what is or is not cheating is not geared towards this common goal. In making this argument an addict has one purpose to downplay their own actions and make themselves feel better. What other possible reason could there be wanting the be right and for her to be wrong? If that’s what is important to the addict when he’s engaged in horrendous and hurtful behavior then he is not sorry and extremely selfish. You are invalidating her feelings and in doing so you are not going to get her to come to see things your way you are going to lose her. The goal on the forum for most is to not lose her. If that’s not your goal then do whatever you want!

When we deal with feelings or opinions there is not one right answer. It’s not like a fact like Washington DC is the capital of the US. If someone says I define it as cheating you have ever right to say you don’t. What you don’t have the right to do is tell them the way they feel is wrong and that they must adopt your way of thinking. As humans we all come to the table with different life experiences and react and feel differently. You can’t tell someone how to feel. And you certainly can’t tell someone who you have hurt that they are not hurt because you don’t think what you did is that wrong. Or I suppose you can but you won’t have many relationships or friends.

I think in relationships we all need to pick our battles and ask ourselves what is this conversation or argument going to achieve? So what is arguing with your SO about this going to achieve? It’s going to achieve her walking out the door. Is it worth that? What’s more important to you?

You cannot successfuly win any argument when it involves how someone feels. If you do “win” the person you have defeated is your SO. Why would you want that? It’s okay to be wrong. It’s okay to concede when your SO is in pain. It does not make you less of a man.

And really spend less time arguing about whether it’s cheating and more time focusing on your own recovery.

 

I believe watching porn secretly is a form of cheating when one is in a relationship. It is not having an emotional affair - it is primarily a means to a sexual release - but I do believe it is a form of cheating.

 

Yes.
When you are put on the back burner to P it is cheating. When he expels all his sexual energy on P it's cheating.
No one could ever possibly understand tbat until they've been there.
Being completely neglected because an SO chooses P over you is a hurt like no other. I'd almost rather it be IRL, at least then I'd understand.

 

I actually see your point. I can understand cheating I don’t condone or like it but at least it’s a person. But when a man is choosing to sit in a room with his hand and the tv over you it defies logic.