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Questions about Masturbation

Discussion in 'Abstinence, Retention, and Sexual Transmutation' started by Ridley, May 31, 2018.

  1. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    I have some difficult questions that bother me. I know these questions don't have black-and-white answers, and that they may be different for each different person. However, they are important to me nonetheless. Keep in mind that these questions are about just masturbation. That is, masturbating without pornography and without fantasizing about pornography:

    • Can masturbation be a part of a successful reboot?
    • Does masturbation hinder your progress in recovering from porn addiction?
    • Is masturbation inherently unhealthy?
    • Is masturbation detrimental in a romantic relationship?
    • Is masturbation a healthy and normal part of human life?
    If you have opinions or answers about these questions, please don't just tell me what they are. Tell me why you believe what you believe.

    Thanks for your time.
     
  2. no
    yes
    probably yes
    yes
    probably no

    just my opinion based on my observations and hunches.
     
  3. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    That doesn't really explain any of your answers, though.. Would you mind explaining why you believe what you believe?
     
    Deleted Account likes this.
  4. It is called a reset then, as I have just read here:
    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...cessive-masturbation-can-be-a-relapse.175311/
    As long it doesn´t make you falling back into any porn consumption, it can be another milestone on your way to a complete reboot.

    If it prevents you from frustrated questioning and quit the whole idea of rebooting and NoFap and is not leading you back to porn either, because "now it doesn´t matter anymore anyway!", it might slow your reboot, but maybe it´s even helpful, because it keeps you at least away from porn, what should be the primary goal, in my opinion.


    The hundred thousand dollar question... Western Medicine says no, in opposite it´s rather healthy and normal done in moderation vs Chinese energy system experience is: Yes, permanent forced lost of semen/chi is unhealthy in the longer run.

    And my personal opinion is: better a good masturbation session than a bad date. Because with masturbation (without porn!) you have only your own energy to play/work with and maximum problem is, you just waste it then, but at least it gave you hopefully some physical relief and temporary pleasure. If you date always a random person instead or have regular sex with a partner you despise, you let always someone else mix up their energy system with your own, but you don´t care that this happens. You take their energy with you for a certain time and same do they with yours. Feels good, if it was a energy that builds you up, but if not - yeah.


    Depends. If it keeps you staying into masturbation without developing enough energy, confidence and enthusiasm to ever try out your true chances at all, it´s just like a tranquilizer. You may do not suffer by horniness then, but by the lack of will to finally change your situation into anything different. If you ever have masturbated about a girl and directly after this still have deep feelings for her, without any guilt, it might be worth to try stopping all masturbation and go for her heart instead.

    Yes. I consider a situation where masturbation is taught as evil, forbidden, dirty or dangerous to children and teenagers much more harmful, because it will implant guilt about something inside them, where is no guilt needed. The adults who preach it, nearly never are able to meet their own preached standard, so the bigotry is all present around such settings. Every boy is expected to state he would not do or have any "dirty unclean thoughts", why same moment nearly none of them is able to keep himself away from it completly, because the sex instinct is just too strong in that age. So the habit of lieing is established, the honest ones will be blamed as sinners, while the liar helps to keep up the bigotry by his collaboration. Such a system is more devilish than any notorious masturbation could ever be. Small children enjoy to play and examine their genitals, what should be unhealthy or even unnormal with such an innocent gesture? The problem starts, when all these things are mixed up with each other. It´s not easy to explain why masturbation is okay, but porn might become a huge problem, if the adults are themselve sexually frustrated or even caught in any form of delusional believe system.
     
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  5. goodnice

    goodnice Fapstronaut

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    No it's not healthy. You've been listening to the medias lies. You are emptying your manhood and your life force. You should be storing and building up that semen within you so you can have strength to conquer the things you want in life, not wasting it in a tissue.

    I have read a good deal of your posts and i don't know why you would M if you have a girlfriend. I mean just save it for her. If you can go 60 days without P, and you have a girlfriend, you definitely shouldn't be masturbating.

    CONSERVATION
    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/understanding-the-importance-of-semen.163388/
     
  6. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for sharing that thread. It was helpful to read that.

    I think this is how I feel about it, too, since it keeps me away from porn. However, I sometimes wonder if that is because it's a healthy thing to do with my life, or because my addict-brain is trying to justify masturbating.

    Does Western Medicine really say 'no'? I am not doubting you, but I am a little skeptical and I'm curious about why you believe that.

    I am currently in a relationship, and I would never choose masturbating to the idea / thought of her over actually having sex with her. I have very deep feelings for her, and since I started my reboot I have only masturbated (without porn, of course) in situations where she is either unavailable or unwilling to have sex. She knows that I do this, and she tells me that she's okay with it. However, I still wonder if I might be damaging our relationship with this sort of behavior. Thank you for mentioning that it depends, because I don't know whether the answer to that question is obvious...

    I don't have a particular stance on whether or not masturbation is immoral (evil, forbidden, dirty, 'dangerous', whatever). My question was more about whether or not it is physiologically or psychologically a healthy part of a normal human life.
     
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  7. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    I am aware that several media sources spread misinformation about masturbation. That's a part of why this topic is so confusing for me: there's so much misinformation out there. I want to know the truth.

    How do you define manhood/life force? What is it made of? How do we know it exists, and how do we know that masturbating drains it?

    PLEASE, LET ME BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS: I am not disagreeing with you, necessarily. I am just skeptical, and I want to understand your position. Please do not take my questioning as hostility towards your position. I want to give you the opportunity to better explain your position, or I won't be able to assess it fairly.

    How does storing semen inside you give you strength to conquer the things you want in life? I am not doubting your assertion, I just want you to explain it to me.


    I'm trying to answer that question myself. I usually masturbate if I am feeling horny and she is either unavailable or unwilling to have sex. I hope that explains why I would do that.
     
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  8. goodnice

    goodnice Fapstronaut

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    Please check out the link i sent !

    If semen has the power to create a baby, to create a life, then wasting it is wasting your life force.

    I also feel myself physically stronger, i am on day 60 of no PMO. If you have never gone that long, you have to experiment and you will see what i mean.

    If you indulge in masturbation, you are sinning against your own body. I mean you could be a lot better in all aspects if you abstained.

    You lose your energy plain and simple. Take notes from top athletes like Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. They didn't ejaculate prior to their fights
     

    Attached Files:

    Targaryenn and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    How is it a waste if my body makes enough of it to make another baby within a few hours? If you're saying that life force is essentially semen, then it doesn't take very long for my life force to replenish after masturbating.

    I have abstained from masturbating for around three months before, and I still don't see what you're seeing. Again, I'm not doubting what you're saying, but I haven't seen the same results myself and I'm still confused about whether or not masturbation is healthy.

    Could you explain this concept to me in a little more detail? I don't understand what it means to sin against my own body. Also, how does abstaining from masturbation make me better in all aspects? Again, not doubting you, I just don't understand. You have to explain it to me like I'm a little child. Indeed, I'm not a little child, but I am very confused about sexuality and masturbating, so I really need more to work with than that.

    What kind of energy? Kinetic? Mechanical? Thermal? Nuclear? Electrical? How do we know? Please, explain it to me and explain why ejaculating causes such a loss of energy.

    I'm aware that they didn't, but I don't think that proves anything. What if they both decided not to wear underwear prior to their fights? Does that mean that we should stop wearing underwear? The fact that they abstained doesn't demonstrate any sort of connection between physical health and ejaculation.

    EDIT:
    I also had a look at the file you attached, but it doesn't really mean much to me because I am an atheist. I don't believe in God, souls, or the bible. I am sorry if this offends you, but the words in the attachment are pretty meaningless to me.
     
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  10. EthanW.

    EthanW. Fapstronaut

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    Can masturbation be a part of a successful reboot? - Yep. Some people prefer hustling to the toilet to masturbate rather than hovering their hand over their mouse, wondering if they shouldn't just "take a little peak." Others, however, associate the self-stimulation of an orgasm with the actuality of PMO behavior, so, for them, masturbating might as well be PMO. If you have control, you can practice it.

    Does masturbation hinder your progress in recovering from porn addiction? - Yes, it can. As previously mentioned, the line between clean masturbation sessions and the allure of a bout with PMO is often close and thin enough that people do not make the distinction between them. Masturbation without pornography can also entice the individual to experiment in masturbation with porn substitutes, which, in turn, leads down the slippery slope to possible relapse. Again, control is necessary.

    Is masturbation inherently unhealthy? - No, as far as I can medically deduce masturbation results in no detrimental effects. It's not a cure for anything, and there are some risks to it ("Frequent or rough masturbation can cause minor skin irritation. Forcefully bending an erect penis can rupture the chambers that fill with blood, a rare but gruesome condition called penile fracture"). Semen carries proteins and such in it naturally, but these are reproduced every time new semen is created in the body. I will say that there is definitely a psychological aspect to the activity of masturbation (people come to NoFap for a reason, after all). Too much masturbation may feel like "cheating" for some people. That is the only thing you have to define for yourself, whether it is cheating or not.

    Is masturbation detrimental in a romantic relationship? - That depends entirely on the partner's attitude to the activity. If you are masturbating habitually, and your partner learns about it, they might be anything from offended to disgusted. I would just not tell them, to be honest (frankly, would you want your partner to tell you they masturbate for whatever reason? I would not, so I do not). As far as the health of the relationship, masturbating can be beneficial to curbing the effects of stress or anxiousness when interacting with the other person. Masturbation prior to intercourse can also be helpful for performance anxiety.

    The last question I will answer in summary: Masturbation is nothing to be afraid of inherently, and there are psychological reasons to either masturbate or to refrain from doing so. Masturbation produces testosterone (less than sexual intercourse, however), so there is a definite benefit to releasing sexual energy (I mean energy in a purely biochemical way), especially when you are young and biologically impelled to sexual activity -- yet, you can produce testosterone just from the physical exertion of a simple work-out, so there you go. Whether you choose to masturbate or not is not a matter of what is natural to a human being; it should be specific to whether it is beneficial to you.

    Coming to NoFap means you struggled with the control over PMO. The fact that you struggled means there were chemical and psychological reasons you practiced PMO activity. Masturbation was a part of that previous process. I have tried to practice healthy masturbation sessions recently, yet I cannot separate them from the temptation derived of the dopamine-laced sessions I would dive into with PMO. Masturbation draws me closer to relapse. It is a sad truth. But, I am different than you. If you have survived a 90-Day Reboot program, then reintroducing masturbation and orgasms into your sexual activity is acceptable, if you would like their experiences again. I would advise you to regulate them, though. Set up a schedule to keep yourself controlled when you engage in MO (the schedule can be a bit loose, since you might be interested in relieving random experiences of lust). Make sure you do not slip into the temptation to add in pornography. After a while, your body understands that MO does not require P, and you can perform masturbation to orgasm without relapsing, or being tempted to relapse.

    I believe and think the way that I do because I read about the impact of MO when I first started out here on NoFap, and from the conversations I have had with other people and from personal experiences.

    To be honest, if your body is not demanding sexual release, don't even bother with masturbation. If you can wake up, feel good, go about your day, do what you need to get done, and come home feeling relaxed at the end of the day, when why masturbate? Though, if you decide to, take it easy starting out. Triggers to other behavior can be catastrophic. Just remember: your hand and your sexual organs are natural -- porn, however, is not.

    I read this when I first learned about this stuff: Rethinking the Wonders of Adult Masturbation

    Use your own discretion. Peace.
     
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  11. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    I consider myself one of the people who associates self-stimulation with PMO behavior, so it's really challenging for me. At this point, I'm not sure whether I have control over my masturbating or whether it's a compulsion for me. It's very confusing for me.

    Yeah, whether masturbation is medically / psychologically healthy or not, it often feels like skating on thin ice when I do it in the middle of my recovery. I can't tell if that's because I actually am risking a full-blown relapse or because I am so used to masturbating with porn that I can't separate the two in my head.

    My own research has not allowed me to conclude anything about masturbation in either direction. I'm keeping an open mind, and if I've learned anything from my own research about physiological and psychological effects of masturbation, it's that the topic is generally not well understood.

    I'm wondering if there are more psychological factors than just the guilt of feeling like you've committed an infidelity. There's no doubt that masturbating affects the prevalence of certain hormones and neurotransmitters in the brain, and I'm wondering if that has any psychological consequences that aren't a risk when having sex with a partner.

    Indeed, the only cases in which I've masturbated during my reboot are when my partner is unavailable or unwilling to have sex. Even in those cases, I still struggle with guilt when I do it.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I still don't feel closer to understanding masturbation as a concept, but I feel closer to understanding myself and what it means to me.
     
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  12. EthanW.

    EthanW. Fapstronaut

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    I would very much agree. With masturbation, you should tread slowly and cautiously. Take steady action and use your best judgment.

    That is an interesting hypothesis I had not considered. My first thought is that if there are psychological reasons people become addicted to PMO, there would also be psychological factors at work when they engage in the same associative behavior they have aligned with PMO (such as masturbation, viewing nudes, sitting in a computer chair in front of a personal computer, accessing certain sites or file routes on their computer, etc.).

    For example, if I use PMO (in addition to the pleasurable creation of dopamine) because I feel sexually rejected, or lacking control to make sexual contact, then rebooting from PMO only to begin masturbating later on may very well begin a reintroduction of those same feelings of sexual inadequacy I experienced while engaging in PMO. You would put yourself back in the cycle of having (perhaps unconscious) motivations for seeking PMO behavior.

    That is assuming, of course, the associative behavior is strong enough to warrant a psychological trigger, and assuming that the emotion of guilt is enough of a surface distraction that the individual does not realize there are other psychological variables at work.

    I suppose the only way to see if this is true is to take an individual with a past of pornography addiction, have them cite their reasons for the addictive behavior (other than pleasure or boredom: sexual inadequacy, lack of sexual confidence, anxiety with potential sexual partners, etc.), introduce them into a NoFap reboot program, and after successful rebooting have them begin masturbating and habitual sexual intercourse (though, sexual intercourse might require a control, because even I feel guilty for masturbating when I am rebooting, and I have no sexual partner). Afterward, we would analyze their psychological responses in addition to their physical performance when they have habitual sex without masturbation and then having habitual sex with masturbation. If there is a recording of them citing inklings of the same emotional or sexual responses as they did while engaged in PMO -- as they do while having sex and masturbating -- then we would know there is a correlation, and that it goes beyind the emotion of guilt.

    But, I am digressing.

    At any rate, if you feel guilty about masturbation, then you should not engage in it until you have a deeper understanding as to why. It's not something that people should feel guilty about, but you most likely have a psychological reason for feeling that way, if not a practical reason (masturbation is like sex with yourself rather than sex with your partner, or something similar).

    That's what really matters.

    Hope you work it out. All the best to you.
     
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  13. Archangel 77

    Archangel 77 Fapstronaut

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    The list doesn’t matter. I’m taking this from an emotional and spiritual point of view. Masturbation = self gratification. Just like so many other addictions. (Drinking, sex, gambling, drugs) I know that when I’m only interested in pleasing myself, I’m missing out on the larger world. I’m missing out on real connection, and real experience.

    In another thread someone was talking about a book they read in internment camps and how human being can live and survive in deplorable conditions. Is it healthy? No, but can a human being still live that way, sure.

    So what does “healthy” mean to you? Is it staying alive, of being the best possible version of yourself? If its the latter, you don’t need M or any other self gratification in your life.

    The counter balance to this is that we do need self compassion, self care and self love. Those are different from shallow pleasure seeking behaviors.

    I wish you the best on your journey.
     
  14. u376

    u376 Fapstronaut

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    With all my experience ....I have come to this conclusion
    That both masturbation and porn are harmful
    Even if they are done alone
    Hard mode is the real cure
     
  15. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Yes, my current plan is to abstain for a while, at least until I start to find more clarity on the matter. I think it's just going to take me some time.
     
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  16. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Why not? Do you not see a difference between the questions?

    Could you unpack that idea a little more for me? What does it mean to "miss out on the larger world"? And why does pleasing yourself cause you to miss out on the larger world? Also, what is the difference between masturbation and a "real experience"?

    Did you actually just compare masturbating to living in an internment camp?

    I think if I knew the answer to that question, I wouldn't have created this thread. Also, you haven't really explained why gratifying yourself makes you anything less than the best version of yourself. It doesn't really answer the question of why you think masturbation is unhealthy: it just rephrases the question. Beforehand, I was asking "why is masturbation unhealthy", and your answer is "masturbating keeps you from being the best version of yourself". That really just brings me to another question: "why does masturbation keep you from being the best version of yourself?"

    Thanks for your answers. Please don't take my skepticism and further questioning as hostility. I'm here to learn, and I only seek truth and a deeper understanding.
     
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  17. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Could you explain why you believe this? The answer isn't very helpful to me if I don't understand why.
     
  18. u376

    u376 Fapstronaut

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    I think experience is the best teacher
    What all I am going to explain .... still you will not agree on that
    In Hinduism the semen retention is often related with a term called "tej" which is often depicted as a glowing light at the back of head of great saints
    40 drops of blood makes 1 Drop of semen...
    So when you ejaculate it you are sure depleting vital nutrients
    Not even this even great scientist Nikola Tesla remained virgin and abstained from all these MO habits ....
    Mike Tyson at the peak of his career didn't have sex for five years
    I have many other examples
    I know this is a poor explanation
    But I leave it on your own experience to decide
    Good luck bro
     
  19. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Sure, I agree with you on that. My experiences surrounding masturbation are very confusing, and I'm not sure I can trust my own judgment on the matter. That's why I'm turning to external sources to help me understand it better, rather than just relying on my own experiences.

    I am not religious / spiritual / faithful, so this isn't very meaningful to me.

    In what sense? Are you claiming that your body has to deplete blood in order to make semen?

    I am seriously skeptical of this claim. I have two follow-up questions:
    • Which nutrients in semen are vital?
    • How does your body make use of these vital nutrients when you abstain from ejaculation? To answer this question, you will need to explain which physiological systems extract the nutrients, and how those extracted nutrients are distributed to other cells in the body.
    Almost everyone I talk with on this forum who advocates for semen retention cites Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali as a source. This is a poor argument in favor of semen retention. Correlation is not the same as causation. Muhammad Ali didn't ejaculate in the few days leading up to a fight, and he won a lot of fights. Another way of saying this is that, in the case of Muhammad Ali, semen retention and winning fights were correlated. However, this correlation does not at all imply that one of these events caused the other. In my opinion, Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter because of semen retention. He was a great fighter because he practiced fighting a lot. He practiced drills, he participated in a lot of fights, he was coached by experts on fighting, and he stayed dedicated to what he was doing even when he lost matches.

    If you can't see why this is a silly argument, then consider this analogous one: Steve Jobs, the founder of Apple, claimed that he conceived the idea of the iPod while under the influence of LSD. Does that mean that taking LSD will make you a great innovator? No, because correlation is not the same as causation. Taking LSD didn't cause Jobs to discover the iPod. He discovered the iPod because he spent a long time thinking about technology, tinkering with ideas, and discussing his ideas with other people. Similarly, semen retention didn't make Muhammad Ali a great fighter. Does that make sense?
     
  20. u376

    u376 Fapstronaut

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    I don't think I can convince you nor I want to .... because you are right we all have different experiences and side effects of this habit
    There are many other factors other than pmo which contribute to some result
    But by not indulging ourselves in this habit don't you think we are saving a lot of time and energy
    Ok let's say Mike Tyson fapped before the night he fought....but he still won the match
    But we don't know ..may be he won without utilising his potential
    And same Steve jobs used to avoid orgasm while having sex with his wife
    As he believed in semen retention
    You can Google about this
    Now I want you to check this thread
    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/6-years-clean-rebooting-as-the-best-remedy.135983/
    This is mainly about masturbation
     

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