Questions to the U.S women here about Roe v. Wade

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  1. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    How do you feel about Roe v. Wade being overturned ?
    Do you agree with the idea that abortion is by-default immoral no matter the circumstances ?
     
  2. Of course.

    Watch these videos and tell me this isn't the most horrific thing our culture endorses.

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHKtlmDng6ZuOdp5sTjfyY-KWTtzXhZpV

    The only time this type of procedure should ever be done would be if it was medically necessary. And by that I mean ACTUALLY medically necessary, not "well, I feel stressed, so I need to have an abortion because pregnancy is harming my mental health."

    Which, by the way, is why so many pro-life people have an issue when laws that have a "medical exemption" are passed. Because "medical exemption" includes all kinds of things, like emotional health, mental health, even financial health. So you can literally use a "medical exemption" for absolutely any reason. You feel financially strained? Boom. Medical exemption. You feel nauseous because you have morning sickness? Boom. Medical exemption. Smh. It's literally just legalese that says "sure, we'll make abortion illegal, but only if that law is absolutely meaningless and people can still get abortions whenever they want for whatever reason they want."

    The only time something like this would be acceptable is if the woman is going to die, and the only way to save her life is to remove the baby. But even then, most of the time that situation occurs, the safest way to remove the baby is via an emergency c-section, not by abortion. The only situation I can even think of that would actually require what some might call an abortion would be an ectopic pregnancy. Aside from situations like that, there is absolutely no need for this type of procedure.

    The history of abortion is also downright horrifying, btw. Which pro-choice people don't want to acknowledge or talk about. Nobody on that side of the aisle wants to talk about the fact that Planned Parenthood was created by a racist eugenicist who wanted to brainwash black women into choosing abortion so there would be fewer black babies in the world. Nobody who praises and supports PP wants to acknowledge that fact. Which i guess shouldn't be surprising, because people who support abortion are experts at denying reality and facts.
     
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  3. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    When you talk about 'abortion', I imagine you refer to late-stage abortion, which I agree with you on the fact that it's immoral and can be considered murder.

    But this is the Roe v. Wade law:
    As the supreme court case that held that the Constitution protected a woman’s right to an abortion prior to the viability of the fetus. On the basis of the right to privacy, Roe gave women an unrestricted right to abortion during the first three months of pregnancy.

    Late-stage pregnancy which is completely barbaric, wasn't allowed under Roe. Unless the mother's life was in jeopardy, and even then there is still the possibility of C-section.

    That's why I will disagree with you, abortion isn't necessarily murder. It depends mainly on the stage of the pregnancy, a recently fertilized egg isn't a 'baby'. When the egg is fertilized it turns into a zygote and stays as a lump of multiplying cells for 3 to 4 weeks, it turns into an embryo then a fetus and finally an unborn child. In the early stages from 0 to 4/3 weeks, abortion can't technically be 'murder', because at this stage we aren't talking about anything more than a non-sentient lump of cells.

    Fair enough, but even if we accept all abortion to be murder, it still doesn't deny that regardless of whether the woman's life is in danger or not, abortion would be technically still be 'murder' and the moral dilemma remains unresolved.

    Unless you want to argue that the woman's life being in danger makes abortion less of a 'murder' than it would be otherwise. Which is bizzare, it doesn't make any sense to consider a case of 'infanticide' less criminal if we accept it as such by default. If we accept that all abortion is murder, then no abortion can ever be seen as moral.

    First, it would be straight up saying that all abortion is 'barbaric murder', and in the same breath contradict this by denying it's barbarity in a different context. It's escalating a situation about removing an undevelopped lump of cells to protect a woman, into a situation where we'll be forced to sacrifice one sentient life to save another. How is that supposed to resolve anything ? It's even worse.

    It's far better to draw a reasonable line concerning abortion, by that I mean it shouldn't exceed the 4 to 5 first weeks of pregnancy. This way, women suffering from high risk pregnancies won't be denied protection, and rape victims will absolved from the trauma of carying their rapist's child, all while avoiding any unethical ramifications.

    Look at this story , this ten years old rape victim was denied abortion. Because the absurd state laws are based on the premise that 'life starts at conception' (which is technically false, sentient life doesn't start at conception), thus prohibit all abortion with no exception for rape or incest victims. Do you think this is reasonable ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  4. I've said everything I'm going to say to you on this subject. You asked a question and I answered it. That's all I have to say. I have zero patience for anyone who supports abortion.

    All of your arguements are so easily debunked, and have already been debunked multiple times over. Just go watch videos from people like Dr. Anthony Levitino, Abby Johnson, Ben Shapiro, Kristin Hawkins, Melissa Ohden, etc. You don't need answers to your questions from me... those answers are already readily available to you. You just want to argue, and I'm not interested in that.
     
  5. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    I support abortion under certain conditions, mainly depending on the stage of pregnancy. As far as biology is concerned, life as we aim to protect it doesn't automatically start at conception.

    As a side-note, Margaret Sanger, the one who started planned parenthood wasn't a racist eugenist who conspired to exterminate the black population. She was a feminist activist who tried to help the southern black populations struggling with poverty to have a stable life and more opportunities. MLK praised her efforts and considered her an important ally in the civil rights movement, you can look at this paper detailing MLK's position on both Margaret Sanger and planned parenthood.
     
  6. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    Yes, I'm aware of this. And even if we consider your premise, it doesn't automatically resolve the moral dilemma implied by viewing abortion as 'murder' by default.
     
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  7. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    Please don't remind me about the cringes I've got from watching those clowns. Ben Shapiro, the same guy who said that 'supposedly for the sake of the argument, if climate change leads to flooding houses, then people can just sell their houses and move'. Sell them to who ? Aquaman ?

    I have a hard time believing anyone can take them seriously. That said, I doubt any of them has offered any substancial evidence to 'debunk' my arguments. All they do is form empty, wordy, arguments that don't even address the main issues. Of course, one of them being the iconic climate change moment of Shapiro.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  8. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    Also, Shapiro said that life 'starts at conception', which is wrong if we take into consideration science. It's not possible to see a zygote or a lump of cells as equally 'living' as an unborn child or a newborn unless your judgment is clouded by religious beliefs.
     
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  9. How can you possibly claim that when you aren't even willing to listen to their arguements? Smh. Yet again, you prove yourself to be one of the most close minded people I've ever met in my life. Do you even know who any of those people are besides Ben? Do you have any clue what they have to say?

    You can't say that you refuse to listen to these "clowns" and then also claim that they have no valid arguements. What an idiotic statement. You have no idea what their arguements or evidence are if you refuse to listen.
     
  10. This you?

    This right here, is why nothing good can come of talking about this. Everyone already has a hardline opinion and refuse to budge either way. Not even looking at evidence against either argument will change anyone's mind. I'd suggest a mod lock this topic before it turns into a dumpster fire. If not, I'll be here with the popcorn.
     
  11. Nothing you just quoted from me is hypocritical or contradictory... so I'm not sure why you quoted my posts like it was some kind of gotcha.

    If you don't like my stance on abortion, that's your problem. I'm completely unapologetic about being against it, and I will never apologize for it. That's not from a lack of listening to the other side or assuming I know they have nothing to say. I have listened... I listen to their arguements all the time.

    I simply said that it's ridiculous of She-D to say that she knows these people I recommended have no arguments and nothing to say when she also says she refuses to even listen to them, and probably doesn't even know who half of them are. Most people know Ben Shapiro, and maybe Abby Johnson, but most people I encounter have never heard of the other people I mentioned. So do I believe for one second that She-D has listened to those people and knows their arguments and disagrees with them? Not at all. I think she saw the name Ben Shapiro and got triggered and dismissed the rest solely based on that.

    She also clearly didn't watch any of the videos I linked, because her very first statement made in response was a false assumption, which she would have known was false if she even glimpsed the videos for two seconds. She said she assumes I'm talking about late term abortion. The videos I posted include descriptions of all types of abortions, not just late term. So again, she proves herself unwilling to listen to any evidence or information provided.

    And yeah, I agree that this thread should be locked or removed. It's pointless, and She-D knew full well it would lead to nothing but a flame war. Abortion is like the most controversial issue on the planet. And I make no apologies for being emotional and angry when people try to justify murdering babies. It's actually quite insane to me that anyone is not emotional and angry about this nonsense.
     
  12. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    This is the same woman who claimed to formerly work for planned parenthood and shifted positions later in life. In Trump 2020 campaign she said in her speech that Margaret Sanger was a racist and all the rest, but she didn't say that Sanger played a key role in the civil rights movement alongside MLK. That's one deliberate lie by omission.

    After Ben, that's the second one whose whole argument is based on misinformation. Of course, there's her graphic description of an ultra-sound abortion which supposedly happened after the first 4 weeks, which I agree sounds immoral but it still doesn't mean that all abortion should be banned.

    I'm not justifying murdering babies, you really don't pay attention to my arguments. Do you think a zygote is a baby ? Or a lump of non-sentient flesh is a baby ? Because it's absurd to think abortion is any of these two early phases counts as 'murdering babies'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  13. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    If their argument is based on the statement that life starts at conception, then I don't see how they might be different from Shapiro.

    BTW, did you see the story of the 10 years old who was initially denied abortion in Ohio ? It seems that you didn't provide enough attention to this.
     
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  14. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    I asked her how the moral dilemma can be resolved if we accept that all abortion is murder, even if the mother's life is in danger. It wouldn't make it less of a murder, only a situation where one sentient life is given more priority, despite initially believing that both 'lives' are equally valuable.

    Why, in the situation where the mother's life is in danger, it will be OK to dismiss the value of the fetus's life ? If abortion is about murdering a life equal to the mother's.
     
  15. So...you said that She-D wouldn't listen to any arguments from conservative talking heads because they refuse to, but you're literally doing the same exact thing by not listening to She-D. I'm not trying to take sides here, just pointing out the hypocrisy in both of you. She-D refuses to listen to your conservative talking points, just like you refuse to listen to any liberal talking points(from them). It just points out a bigger problem in the US in the last 6+ years. People are digging their heels into one camp or the other, and if the US doesn't implode by the end of the decade, I'll be surprised.

    I'm gonna say this once: I don't give a shit. I really don't.
     
  16. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    I did listen to conservative talking points, and their whole premise is based on the idea that life starts at conception. the one I remembered the most was Shapiro because of his annoying, cartoonish voice and his rather stupid stands.

    I understand and acknowledge the reasonable points of the conservative argument, mainly that abortion has the potential to be unethical and barbaric. This is not something I can disagree with. But at the same time, I can't accept that aborting during the first 4 weeks of pregnancy counts as 'murdering' a baby. Because a zygote isn't a baby nor is a blastocyst, and neither is sentient or has the ability to experience physical pain. It's not accurate to qualify it as a 'baby' yet at this point.

    The problem comes mostly from the conservative side, they cling to the idea that human life begins at conception despite how wrong it is. And they refuse to accord any credit to a solution offering a humane middle ground while taking into account all related ethical concerns. They want to hear none of it, as their position is mainly grounded on religious belief and sentimentalism.

    There is also the lies they tell about Sanger, that she was a racist while MLK felt a kinship to her and supported her endeavors. They don't even accurately describe her position and claim she was pro-abortion while she clearly wasn't and devoted most of her life to birth control activism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  17. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    I know you aren't really invested in this. But from a scientific point of view, do you agree that aborting a 0 to 4 weeks old zygote can be seen as murder ? I'm not talking about late-stage abortion here, because I made my point obvious.
     
  18. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    I am repulsed by late stage abortion too, don't be worried. And I am also repulsed by the fact that a 10 years old rape victim was told to carry her pregnancy to term despite the obvious risk to her life and fertility. This is what made me understand that this 'all abortion is murder' should be revised and a reasonable line needs to be drawn.
     
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  19. she-dernatinus

    she-dernatinus Fapstronaut

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    I noticed the videos talked about all stages of abortion, and I still stand by my point. Abortion isn't necessarily murder. It's all about the stage of the pregnancy.
     
  20. ARCEUS

    ARCEUS Fapstronaut

    I too experienced and got my temper increased in the past when I had a debate with her, whatever we say it's very hard to let her realize that her opinion is wrong or un-wanting. She always has an answer to literally any of our counter answer with obviously not-understanding-type and just speeds the back answer. Thatswhy I try ignoring her, cuz already I am enough depressed and living unwanting life and this spice works as a kerosene in fire.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2022
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