Quinn's marriage journal

[TheMightyQuinn]

Hi. My name is Quinn. I'm 47 years old. I am recovering sex addict and codependent. I am in my 9th, soon to be 10th year of recovery for addiction and 6th year for codependency.

I'm skipping most the backstory for now. Most of you know it. In summary: Addict since I was a kid. 1st marriage of 11 years destroyed by my addiction and partner's BPD. Initiated a divorce post recovery, dated a few years, met my now wife 5 years ago, and married for 3 years. We adopted a baby girl who is now almost 2.

My wife and I, our family, we look super happy. We look on top of the world. My wife has a PhD and a position of stature in a large company. I own my own business and work part time but I work at a very high skill level and we do quite well. Our little girl is awesome. We go to synagogue every Saturday and practice the customs in our house. We're liberal-ish minded east coasters (those "elites" you always here about) but we despise snobs. We live in a old farmhouse in the "country" right outside of a major metropolitan area. Living the dream. Everything to be grateful for.

So...why wasn't I happy?

Better question...why did I stuff that feeling that I wasn't fully happy for 5 years?

Best question...what was my part in contributing to the situation that left me not feeling happy?

The problem:
Our sex life has never been great together. It has been very infrequent. To be specific, every couple of months, or maybe once a month, but (and this is the important part), only when she wants to herself. She is the lower libido spouse and controlled that aspect of our relationship. I let her do it, all through the courtship. I courted her in the way she wanted to be courted but I never really spoke up about what I wanted, no needed, to feel loved in a relationship. (I just answered the last question).

My wife has chronic health issues. From time to time, they can take sex off the table. However, I started to see how she would refuse sex with me even when she was feeling well. I started to feel undesired, unloved, unattractive. I started to see how she avoided sex with me.

About a year ago, we went on vacation, she did not want to have sex (too tired). I protested, "if not now, when?". A week after we got back from vacation, she planned a day with her parents over, and worked in her garden, and had a great day. At the end of the day, I turned to her with wanting eyes and she said "oh I'm so exhausted. I just need some time to myself now to read a book" and she grabbed her kindle and started to leave. I fought back. I retorted "you're too tired because you did exactly what you wanted to do all day and I supported you through it and you are telling me that I am the lowest priority to you. You are taking me for granted. I don't think you understand how much you reject me".

A crack in the ice...if only briefly.

We tried a little bit harder but we hadn't fully grasped our situation yet.

Then she got sick. For 6 months.

She had to change her medications. She's pretty good now.

So I approached her again.

"Quinn, I just got better and now you're already on to this, I haven't even had any time to enjoy it yet. I haven't gotten to go out with friends, I haven't been able to play the [musical instrument of her choice]. Somehow I broke through those excuses and we were sexual. That was about 10 days ago.

Another problem with sex: she has vaginismus. She refuses to go to the doctor about it "I have enough doctors". However, she said she would work on increased intercourse with me as a solution. I said ok. So let's get to it.

About a week ago, we watched a movie together. Had a great time, it was hilarious. We had a good day earlier that day and were very loving to each other. Our daughter noticed the difference.

But that night, as we were going to bed I approached her and said "maybe tomorrow we can be together again" and she protested "how many times do you want to do this?" I said, I would like to be sexual ideally every other day but twice a week would be fine". She was floored. Once a week was all she was ever used to. (this was a knife in the heart. She had sex once per week with her past lover and was interested in sex with him but wasn't interested with me. This nearly killed me.)

We were up all night. We don't "fight". We never shout or call each other names, we are very thoughtful people. However, we have our habits. I'm the irresistible force and she's the immovable object. I repeat myself over and over and she says things like "I am who I am and you're trying to change me and you don't accept me the way I am".

So that's the way the conversation went until about 1 AM. I kept driving my point home. And here is where things began to turn: she said, "let me just speak and I want you to hear me". And I said ok, and I did nothing but listen. She told me about how it doesn't help her to hear this over and over and that she will try but she is who she is. I just listened. When she was done, she paused and said "thank you, I feel heard".

And then she said "Do you feel like I heard you?" and I paused for a minute or two. And this is what happened.

I said "no". I said I repeat myself out of desperation when I don't feel like I"m being heard. I am trying to communicate to you how lonely I feel in our marriage. How undesired I feel. I don't feel loved. And I have always felt this way. I have been miserable stuffing my needs for years and I don't think I can do it anymore. I love you dearly but if this doesn't change, our relationship will fail. I don't want it to, I could never love someone like I love you and I'm terrified of what would happen to our daughter but I can't live like this."

*Crack*

She really had no idea. She thought I just wanted sex and she didn't. She didn't see it as necessary for love. We had a conversation a few days later because I was in a tailspin over jealousy over her ex. More on that (I'm a man of somewhat large size. I always thought that was "fun" when I was young but with my wife, it hurts. Her ex was smaller and it didn't affect her vaginismus as much. But I told her on the porch, "I know you find my jealousy off-putting and it is, I'll work on it, I have to own that, however, it is the natural response to someone else getting something from my lover that I'm not getting. My dear, you are my wife, I am your husband, we should love each other like we love no others." She told me that although she had sex once a week and physically enjoyed it, this idea that there was some deep connection with her ex was false, they were a terrible couple and she didn't really believe in that spiritual sexual connection anyways. I asked her to suspend her disbelief in that. And she told me "I shouldn't have to tell you this, but you give head way better, you are amazing at that".

I bought a copy of "The Sex Starved Marriage" and read it cover to cover one night. My wife started googling issues of low libido and gained some empathy for my perspective. I started to let go of the idea that her avoidance was about me. It was about pain, it was about not feeling she needed it to be happy, it was about her not realizing that arousal precedes desire for her (she has to do it to desire it rather than desire it to do it), it was about her not filling up her own cup of self care (she said the other night she felt like a shadow, like if she looked in the mirror, she wouldn't have a reflection).

She's gotten serious about it. She's called her friends and her sister. She's taken steps at self care. She's started touching me more, we have been very loving. We agreed to focus twice per week on being sexual and that she should initiate some. We are going to try to focus on her pleasure with intercourse and I have agreed to be patient with mine. Basically, I give her an oral O which makes her ready for intercourse. She needs to work on the pain and learn to enjoy it and relax with me. I need to do that for her.

I've gotten serious about it. I spend quality time with her. I practice gratitude. Even though I've always loved my wife, I've always had a little struggle with addiction. I recognize what that struggle was. I have a touch love language. I've been trying my whole life to fill that hole. When my wife wasn't available to me or rejected me, I would look elsewhere in my mind. I don't do that anymore. I feel like the addict is dying maybe even dead already.

All I want is to love and be loved by my wife. For us to desire each other. We are working really hard and I'm grateful. She's struggling with expectations. The last time we were sexual, she couldn't have an oral O. Too much pressure, we talked it out. It wasn't me, it was her pressure. She was in her mind thinking "OMG, I've gotta O because Quinn wants intercourse with me and I'm worried I will fail". I told her to forget about it. Let's just show up for each other and keep at it. Let go of outcomes.

Like I said in a previous post. Outcomes are for God. Effort is for people.

Yours in recovery,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Yesterday my wife was very affectionate all day. She was planning on initiating and was warming me with affection. It was great. Unfortunately, my daughter is in sleep regression now. It's been really hard. Sleep regression and teething. By the time we got her to bed, we were so tired. We had some food prep to do so we did that together instead. She told me she was planning on approaching me but our daughter just took too much. I said that was ok.

Unfortunately, last night, my wife got a migraine around 11PM and my daughter woke up at 4:30AM so we're both wiped out today. Maybe for a few days. We had some laugh/cries about it. That's just life. Why is it, when we endeavor to make changes, the universe throws everything at you to challenge you in that change?

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I am grateful my wife is so willing to do this for our marriage. She does find me attractive and does desire me. It's just hard to get over years of some obvious neglect. I still have nagging intrusive thoughts of jealousy. My part is to let go of the past and go with the present but it is hard. That's why I'm journaling here. I know it's not totally on topic but it is recovery related, we are a recovery couple.

One of the reasons I hang out in this forum is because I can identify with the PAs being one myself and I can identify with the SOs in terms of their feelings of being undesired and not fully loved, not being the one and only and having that expressed to me by my lover. I know how much that hurts. I never really let on to that until now but that's my story.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I'm going to start referring to my wife here is "Quinny". I prefer people have names. It's awkward to me to constantly say "my wife".

Last night I had some of those negative feelings and thoughts. It went something like this. Quinny had no issues with desire with her ex, she wanted sex with him. With me, she has to get aroused first. She told me recently that she finds herself at peace with me. She had relationship issues in the past and always sought out conflict. With me, right from the start, it seemed easy and natural. The problem is, there's not much desire in that. She tells me time and time again that she's attracted to me and desires me, it's just she spent so long avoiding, making excuses, and taking me for granted, that it's hard to get past that feeling, even though we're in a much better place now.

Therapy today: two topics:

- Help with the jealousy. How can I feel my feelings without it affecting the relationship progress and how can I forgive her as we move forward?
- self sacrifice schema: why did I sacrifice my own needs in the relationship from the start and for so long? What is my contribution to this problem and how can I make sure it doesn't happen again? In what other ways am I engaging in the self sacrifice schema in my marriage?

Maybe a third topic:
- How can I forgive myself for my contribution to this problem?

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[mrtumnus]

it was about not feeling she needed it to be happy, it was about her not realizing that arousal precedes desire for her (she has to do it to desire it rather than desire it to do it)

Interesting. I'll have to ponder this. This is definitely something my SO would probably say, and may also not realize.

I've gotten serious about it. I spend quality time with her. I practice gratitude. Even though I've always loved my wife, I've always had a little struggle with addiction. I recognize what that struggle was. I have a touch love language. I've been trying my whole life to fill that hole. When my wife wasn't available to me or rejected me, I would look elsewhere in my mind. I don't do that anymore. I feel like the addict is dying maybe even dead already.

All I want is to love and be loved by my wife. For us to desire each other. We are working really hard and I'm grateful. She's struggling with expectations.

I think I'm in a similar place. However, I feel that I'm trying to go down the road of self-sacrifice, rather than coaxing my SO to meet my needs/desires. It's such a hard thing, as our addiction gives us cravings for something good, but hampers efforts to love selflessly.

Why is it, when we endeavor to make changes, the universe throws everything at you to challenge you in that change?

Murphy strikes again! Although, me being religious, I would attribute it to someone else...

Thanks for your posts, Quinn. I resonate deeply with your story. I am still in my first marriage, but have the same feelings of jealousy and resentment (not of SO's past relationships, but of other relationships). It was hugely exacerbated by my porn addiction, but even in my sobriety I struggle with it, often on these forums (need to be careful here). My SO often brings up the fact that she was raised in a household where sex was "bad", except when your married. Then, magically, it won't be bad anymore.

I look forward to hearing more from you - it's encouraging to hear the progress you've already made. Keep up the good work!

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Therapy session today, was a doozie.

We talked about jealousy, mistrust, anxiety, and humiliation.

So, regarding the jealousy, my therapist said this. Yes, it is a normal reaction to not getting something from your lover that someone else got/is getting but that it behooves me to work on that for my self. He said jealousy is my side of the street. The problem with jealousy is that it:

- add pressure to the situation
- inclines me to be more controlling in thoughts and actions than I would otherwise be
- introduces an element of hostility into the situation
- my tendencies to jealousy have their roots in codependency - needing her to be a certain way that she is not so desperately that I become jealous in the indication that she has been that way before
- born of comparing myself to someone else

Then he said, there is a separate issue about trust. He said I don't fully believe:

- what she professes of her past experiences, desires, anxieties, and feelings with her ex boyfriend and herself
- her sustained sincerity of her commitment to resolve the issues
- her professing of sexual interest - (here I need to give her greatest leeway, she has least control over - essentially she has to fake it till she makes it)

He said the trust issue is her side of the street. She is in a position of having to earn my trust based on her past actions of avoidance and rejection. He said my mistrust is "warranted by the facts" of the situation (avoidance, rejection, de-prioritization)

Then I told him the doozie.

When we were dating about one month, we were fooling around on her bed and she stopped and looked at me and said "huh, it's so strange, you're not my type". My therapist was floored. He laughed a little like "wow, what a thing to hear". (this has always been a deep wound for me). I told him I asked her what her type was and she responded "jerks".

My therapist chuckled some more and said "ok, so you're not a jerk. But here's the thing. A jerk is an evaluation of a type, it's not actually a type, people aren't actually attracted to jerkiness, they are attracted to other qualities that turn out to be that. So she didn't really answer your question, she kinda dodged it." And here's the rub. He said "what she was essentially communicating to me in that moment was that she was surprised to find herself falling for someone that has an inadequacy that she desires. For me this leads to great humiliation. He said the reason I was jealous of her ex is because I have been trying to "trouble-shoot" this humiliation to figure out what it is that I lack that she desires. And I'm only doing so Quinny has not expressed desire to me in the language I understand - physical touch, regular sex.

I see so many SOs on this site upset that their partner has PIED because they feel lacking that their partner could get it up for porn but not them. I don't even think Quinny cares whether I can get it up for her, she never really expressed much interest. That is crushing to me.

Then he talked about her avoidance. I told him that when we were first dating, Quinny used to express a lot of anxiety to me that she wouldn't be a good lover, that she was somehow inadequate at sex and that I would ultimately reject her. My therapist said that her vaginismus and the fact that she was in her 30's when she first became sexually active do indicate a high degree of sexual anxiety. He suggested that sometime when Quinny feels safe talking about it, I just listen and she talks to me about that (if she even understands it herself).

My therapist also said, probably a lot of the avoidance and excuses with you didn't really stem from lack of desire but from feelings of anxiety in herself.

A few days ago, Quinny told me that she had never really felt a deep connection when having sex. My therapist thought this was strange and said that usually it is women who feel this connection more than men. He said the fact that she has never felt it has led her to the belief that it is a myth and I was right to ask her to suspend that disbelief. He said, that is also an indicator that some of my jealous thoughts are in fact false.

What a day.

Time to make dinner.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I'm going to have a lunch conversation today with Quinny about my therapy session. I'm scared to death. She told me, look it's ok if it doesn't go off perfect. It's ok if I get angry or upset. She said this:

"I want to have a marriage that can survive conflict and difficult feelings. I strive to be able to accept those things as an individual as well"

I'm going to contact a marriage counselor by COB tomorrow. I have already suggested this to her and she agreed. Because right now, I'm using my therapist for this and that's not going to work out. I think I'm going to contact the Sex-Starved Marriage people because they seem already set up to jump right into our situation and I like their approach.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

We met for lunch. I had everything written down. She agreed to just listen. There were parts of it that hurt for her to hear. I don't know what they were or what she was thinking. I'm sure we will talk later. She teared up and sat in silence for about 10 minutes afterwards. She had told me previously that she prefers to just listen and that she needs space to process because her initial reaction is often not helpful. Then we went out for ice cream.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Um wow. We had mind blowing sex tonight. She felt sexy and I felt desired. I have never really experienced that level of passion with Quinny before. I've never really in my life experienced that intense combination of passion and love before. In my first marriage I wasn't into it, I was an addict. When I was dating after my divorce, I had some greatish sex but I was never in love with my partners. They were more interested in me than I was in them. This is the first time (and I'm 47) where I experienced so much passion with the person I love and adore above all others.

(note: we had intercourse for a little while and the purpose of that right now is to help her relax to work through the vaginismus. That was a success. That wasn't the source of the O's but for a 2nd try, that was amazing)

Wow. Just wow, I dunno what else to say. I'm usually more eloquent with my words but all I really got right now is "wow".

-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I woke up this morning and for the first time in a long time I felt that chaser effect. Not surprising really but it was no big deal. It was just a feeling.

Today I've been pretty active on the forums. I have to work tonight and I've been playing a little hookie today because I don't feel like putting in a 14 hour day of work even though I bill by the hour. I just don't want to make busy all day when I have to actually be busy tonight.

I've been thinking about how things are shifting and how rapidly that's actually happening. I first started complaining about a year ago so I guess it has been some time but there is no arguing that there has been a lot of change recently in a very short amount of time.

Quinny is more than on board. She is becoming enthusiastic. That's amazing. We are really a terrific couple and I'm grateful.

So shifting for me goes something like this. I've spent the past several weeks articulating the problem to her. I had to do it to get things going. I had to tell her that from my perspective she was unenthusiastic, lacked initiative, consistently rejected me, avoided sex with me, and de-prioritized it. That hurt for her to hear but she knew it to be the truth for me. But now we are moving past that and it's time for me to move into collaborative solutions mode.

For example, when this started I was complaining: "I don't feel desired because you never initiate sex with me". I was feeling hard feelings and I was just focused on me. I think Quinny was baffled because she has so many doubts about her capacity to be sexual that she just didn't know how to initiate. But now, it's more like "I like it when you initiate sometimes. What do you need from me to help you do that?"

As the higher libido spouse, it's not my job to complain, it's my job to support and solution. I can't just ask for changes from her, I have to facilitate change in myself and I have to be supportive of the changes I request in her.

I always thought Quinny and I were close but I think it was more that we were comfortable. I'm starting to feel what real closeness and real connection is like. I love it.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I woke up this morning and for the first time in a long time I felt that chaser effect. Not surprising really but it was no big deal. It was just a feeling.

Today I've been pretty active on the forums. I have to work tonight and I've been playing a little hookie today because I don't feel like putting in a 14 hour day of work even though I bill by the hour. I just don't want to make busy all day when I have to actually be busy tonight.

I've been thinking about how things are shifting and how rapidly that's actually happening. I first started complaining about a year ago so I guess it has been some time but there is no arguing that there has been a lot of change recently in a very short amount of time.

Quinny is more than on board. She is becoming enthusiastic. That's amazing. We are really a terrific couple and I'm grateful.

So shifting for me goes something like this. I've spent the past several weeks articulating the problem to her. I had to do it to get things going. I had to tell her that from my perspective she was unenthusiastic, lacked initiative, consistently rejected me, avoided sex with me, and de-prioritized it. That hurt for her to hear but she knew it to be the truth for me. But now we are moving past that and it's time for me to move into collaborative solutions mode.

For example, when this started I was complaining: "I don't feel desired because you never initiate sex with me". I was feeling hard feelings and I was just focused on me. I think Quinny was baffled because she has so many doubts about her capacity to be sexual that she just didn't know how to initiate. But now, it's more like "I like it when you initiate sometimes. What do you need from me to help you do that?"

As the higher libido spouse, it's not my job to complain, it's my job to support and solution. I can't just ask for changes from her, I have to facilitate change in myself and I have to be supportive of the changes I request in her.

I always thought Quinny and I were close but I think it was more that we were comfortable. I'm starting to feel what real closeness and real connection is like. I love it.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[Faceplanter]

I have a few more posts to catch up, but I just wanted to comment that jealousy is yours to let go of (you know this of course). The only thing I can think of to help is to compare your words to my situation....my wife has no desire, not even to try to get to desire really, and I'm jealous of the past too. Except....I am the past lover, a younger me anyways. She hasn't been with anyone else but she used to enjoy sex. Just saying it's not easier to deal with when there isn't another man. It's just hard not being desired. Period. Jealousy is just blaming someone convenient.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Had to work last night. It went well but was up until 11:30. But Quinny let me sleep in until 7 which is all I need. Finally, after two weeks of sleep deprivation, I feel normal. She is still tired but tomorrow I'll get up with our kid and she can sleep in.

Quinny is playing hookie from work today and I don't work on Fridays. Today I have 4 loads of wash to do, shopping, meal planning, etc. Quinny spent some time in her garden this morning. She started cleaning out her closets. She said her life has been clutter for a long time and the way her closets and gardens looked were a reflection on how she had been feeling. She said she's starting to feel more motivated to get her mind/body into shape. She said she even had the urge to masturbate for the first time in a year or two.

I'm feeling the same way. I've been starting to work out. Since the baby came along, I lost 20 pounds and I'm already a thin guy. I need that weight back and I want it back in the form of muscle. My gym membership came with a few free trainer sessions and I'm going to call to cash in on those to have them teach me how to build muscle quickly and how to use the equipment safely. I've never really been in great shape and I want to be.

I started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" last night. It's ok. A lot of it I know already. But knowing doesn't matter. I have to do it and live it. And he does have a mano-e-mano style of writing that's different from other "squishy" self-help books I've read.

I still feel the jealousy from time to time but I keep it to myself. However, I'm starting to take ownership of my feelings of being unattractive rather than put them on Quinny. Truth is, I don't find _myself_ very attractive right now. I don't really feel like, nor have I ever really felt like, a real man. That's on me to change. If I feel and act like a man, I will be more attractive to myself and I bet I know how Quinny will respond.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[mrtumnus]

I started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" last night. It's ok. A lot of it I know already. But knowing doesn't matter. I have to do it and live it. And he does have a mano-e-mano style of writing that's different from other "squishy" self-help books I've read.

This is on my to-read list as well. I would definitely fall into the category of 'nice guy', but I feel that I've already started down the road of being able to say 'no' more and assert or at least communicate my needs and wants better. I'm not sure what else the book gets into, but I'm sure those are parts of it. The struggle is to not do these things out of selfishness, but rather out of a healthy sense of being human.

I still feel the jealousy from time to time but I keep it to myself. However, I'm starting to take ownership of my feelings of being unattractive rather than put them on Quinny. Truth is, I don't find _myself_ very attractive right now. I don't really feel like, nor have I ever really felt like, a real man. That's on me to change. If I feel and act like a man, I will be more attractive to myself and I bet I know how Quinny will respond.

You've already crushed your addiction, now time to build up your positive attributes. I wish the best to you in this, it's what we all want!

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I've just had an avalanche of bad feelings all day starting last night.

I feel like a boy, not a man. I'm so afraid that Quinny doesn't and never did find being sexual with me fun and enticing. I'm so jealous that she found her ex this way. I don't even know what the truth is, I'm just spinning in my head and I can't get out. I know she desired sex more previously and I know she thought of it as fun. She's never said those things to me about our sex life. I know I can give her orgasms with my tongue but she really has to concentrate and describes it as hard work. That doesn't sound like very much fun.

I feel so bad that I've lost the joy for life. I'm not even enjoying my daughter right now.

The most counterproductive thing I can do right now is get my negative energy all over Quinny. She has said so. She's working hard at this and has said that what she needs for this to work is for us to live our lives normally and not make this such a big gigantic huge deal. But I feel so bad and it is so obvious, it's hard no have the "feelings boundaries" working. I feel so less than simply because so much effort is required. Why should it be? It's so unfair.

It's not about the sex to me. It's about deep feelings of inadequacy. The sex thing is a trigger for that. Her telling me that I wasn't her type and then behaving sexually with me like I really wasn't her type is a trigger.

I just want to run away and join the circus right now. How do people get through life when they feel like they can't get through the next 6 hours?

Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Three questions for me to answer from "The Sex-Starved Marriage Book"

1. What have I been doing, saying, or thinking on a regular basis about the sexual problems between my spouse and me?

- Moping around the house.
- Chronically trying to diagnose our myself, Quinny, and our relationship with Google.
- talking about the same issues over and over again
- Not giving everything space and time to change and grow
- Distrusting Quinny's capabilities and motivations
- Distrusting Quinny's desire for me
- Acting jealous and needy
- Showing a lack of confidence in myself which is unattractive
- Internalizing everything as "something wrong with me" or
- Blaming everything as "something wrong with her"
- The sum of all of this is not giving Quinny the experiences she needs in order for this to work

2. Is what I'm doing working or pushing my partner farther away?

- Duh.

3. What would my spouse say that I have been doing or saying lately in regard to our sexual differences that is absolutely driving her nuts?

- All of the above from Question #1
- Just plain old seeming obsessed
- Taking rejecting personally.
- On one case I got really upset with Quinny for a rejection about 6 months ago when she was really sick and she felt so angry because she said I was so stuck on myself that I had no empathy for her. She said maybe it was because I was deep in the feelings of facing chronic rejection but that time was a real hard "no" and I sulked about it for 2 days. It made her really mad.
- One time in early dating she was not feeling well and said no and after about 30 minutes of lying with her, I tried again to initiate with her with kisses. I did not take her "no" as firm and thus violated her boundaries. On that one, I knew in the moment I fucked up and made amends.

Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I've never been the most special person to someone my entire life. My mother once told me I was her first and favorite but my father was so needy he took all her energy. My father showed me my sister was more important when he had her crossed-eye fixed and left me with mine all through high school and college. When I was in elementary school, my parents made me play sports even though I sucked at them (I couldn't see straight!!). Year after year I was repeatedly tracked to the losingest team. In high school, I hung out with a group of friends but I always felt like a tag along. Everyone would do special things for each other but never really for me. Not surprising I lost touch with pretty much all of them when I went to college.

My first wife, to her, I was her most special object. As long as I didn't cut my hair and had sex with her only the way she wanted I was her most special object, not person. She even made me wear a condom on my wedding night which was after 5 years of dating.

Now, here I am, married to someone who loves me and is in love with me but calls me her "best friend". I'm getting friend-zoned even by my wife. Romantically and sexually I am her second best out of two. I deserve to be someone's #1 and I won't stay in this relationship if that doesn't change.

God, what that would do to my kid. Adopted into a broken home. But I can't stay if it's the truth. It just hurts too much.

Quinn

 

[Queenie%Bee]

I've never been the most special person to someone my entire life. My mother once told me I was her first and favorite but my father was so needy he took all her energy. My father showed me my sister was more important when he had her crossed-eye fixed and left me with mine all through high school and college. When I was in elementary school, my parents made me play sports even though I sucked at them (I couldn't see straight!!). Year after year I was repeatedly tracked to the losingest team. In high school, I hung out with a group of friends but I always felt like a tag along. Everyone would do special things for each other but never really for me. Not surprising I lost touch with pretty much all of them when I went to college.

My first wife, to her, I was her most special object. As long as I didn't cut my hair and had sex with her only the way she wanted I was her most special object, not person. She even made me wear a condom on my wedding night which was after 5 years of dating.

Now, here I am, married to someone who loves me and is in love with me but calls me her "best friend". I'm getting friend-zoned even by my wife. Romantically and sexually I am her second best out of two. I deserve to be someone's #1 and I won't stay in this relationship if that doesn't change.

God, what that would do to my kid. Adopted into a broken home. But I can't stay if it's the truth. It just hurts too much.

Quinn

. You sound like an SO of a PA/SA . Isn’t that ironic ? We feel what we feel . We have very little or no control over our minds and our hearts . We TRY . We really do . I feel personally a lot of what you just wrote resonates with me . I’ve been second to porn MOST of our 23 years together, I just didn’t know it half of those , in that way atleast. I think you are very special to her . I think maybe have more patience like us SO do . It takes a lot of hard work and communication to get what you truly want and need from your spouse . But I get it , your relationship is lacking the intimacy it needs to flourish and grow romantically. Does she desire to be woo’d ? If not and she is not in love with you and ONLY sees you as her best friend/ Co parent and nothing more then you know the answer . If it’s simply she’s lazy with love , lazy with you , maybe she’s having trouble separating being a mom and a wife . A lot of woman go through that . There’s nothing more frustrating for a mom of a younger child to be needed all day then “ needed “ at night . There are things she wants from you , there has to be . Get it out of her , at least before you let your mind wander to “ I’ll be done with the relationship “ Everyone deserves to be loved in the way THEY need to be loved . It’s not always easy to make that happen Good luck your an awesome dude

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

. You sound like an SO of a PA/SA . Isn’t that ironic ? We feel what we feel . We have very little or no control over our minds and our hearts . We TRY . We really do . I feel personally a lot of what you just wrote resonates with me . I’ve been second to porn MOST of our 23 years together, I just didn’t know it half of those , in that way atleast. I think you are very special to her . I think maybe have more patience like us SO do . It takes a lot of hard work and communication to get what you truly want and need from your spouse . But I get it , your relationship is lacking the intimacy it needs to flourish and grow romantically. Does she desire to be woo’d ? If not and she is not in love with you and ONLY sees you as her best friend/ Co parent and nothing more then you know the answer . If it’s simply she’s lazy with love , lazy with you , maybe she’s having trouble separating being a mom and a wife . A lot of woman go through that . There’s nothing more frustrating for a mom of a younger child to be needed all day then “ needed “ at night . There are things she wants from you , there has to be . Get it out of her , at least before you let your mind wander to “ I’ll be done with the relationship “ Everyone deserves to be loved in the way THEY need to be loved . It’s not always easy to make that happen Good luck your an awesome dude

Thank you! My wife loves me more than she has loved any other. She told me so last night. Tonight I cooked dinner. I do most nights actually. She really liked it. A cooking man to her is very attractive. On our 4th date, she showed up at my place and gave me two cooking books and I remember thinking "awww...she is really into me...she's already trying to change me ". So tonight, after dinner, she looked at me with eyes of attraction and said to me "that was really good, you're becoming quite the cook". It's little things like that that I need from her. It's all the time we had for that today. Our kid is in major sleep regression and has been getting up at 4am for two weeks. We are now fighting the good fight on that one.

My wife has a deep history of intimacy avoidance. We got married in our 40's and yet she had only one sexual partner before me. She was really into that person, he was extremely attractive to her. That is because he was unavailable. He was divorcing and had three kids and his ex-wife was sleeping all around town and spending the kids college money. My wife stepped in to take care of the kids and tried to earn his love. I think it was a whirlwind relationship because it was a rebound relationship for him. I know those, I had one two. Mine didn't last 3 years, more like 5 months, but I do remember the intensity. As a result of that relationship, she did major work on herself and when she met me, she instantly had this warm safe feeling. I didn't get her all excited but she insists that's a bad thing for her. I feel that she hasn't learned to separate good excitement from bad. She's just stuffed all excitement into the "bad" category. Ironically, because I am a healthy match for her, I feel less desired. I have been stuck in comparison mode and have been insanely jealous.

We both agreed to work with the coaches who wrote "The Sex-Starved Marriage". I had been complaining for over a year but when I told her the marriage was in peril, she got right on it. She does love me and does desire me, but she doesn't speak the language at least with me and I am jealous because I believe (maybe falsely) that she spoke it before.

For my part, I didn't speak up for my needs early in the relationship for fear that it wouldn't work out and I do believe it would have failed.

I have my first 1-on-1 with the marriage coach tomorrow. I'm trying to let go of the jealousy and the feelings of being inadequate and just put my faith in the process. It's really hard.

I feel a sense of godly ironic justice. I feel like I'm getting my just desserts for treating my first wife so badly. I've always been good at perspective taking post recovery but feeling these feelings has opened up a new level of empathy for all those who feel undesired.

Also, I don't know if she likes to be wooed. Her guard goes up when I make a move. I just wrote her the deepest sincerest love letter last week and gave it to her with flowers and she said it was really special but she's not really come to me to tell me how much it means to her. She doesn't gush. Right now, we are trying to get back in the saddle with twice per week attempts at being sexual but she wants to control when. She comes to me and says things like "I'd like to try for tonight if there's time" or "I think I can do it tonight". It's not very enthusiastic but it's not at all resentful. But I have been told that this is the way it starts and she has to fake it til she makes it. So I've been told to just accept it that way for now. She also said she wants to do it. So that's the first step. Our focus is on me pleasing her orally (which I already know I can do) and moving to intercourse to work on her vaginal pain and have her concentrate on relaxing. Part of my jealousy is she had intercourse with orgasms with her ex but has essentially cock-blocked me for the past 5 years out of avoidance. She denied me something very special. She's willing to own that know somewhat but it's a slow process.

Thank you for your empathetic words and your encouragement of me and your faith in my marriage. They are greatly appreciated.

-Quinn

 

[Queenie%Bee]

Thank you! My wife loves me more than she has loved any other. She told me so last night. Tonight I cooked dinner. I do most nights actually. She really liked it. A cooking man to her is very attractive. On our 4th date, she showed up at my place and gave me two cooking books and I remember thinking "awww...she is really into me...she's already trying to change me ". So tonight, after dinner, she looked at me with eyes of attraction and said to me "that was really good, you're becoming quite the cook". It's little things like that that I need from her. It's all the time we had for that today. Our kid is in major sleep regression and has been getting up at 4am for two weeks. We are now fighting the good fight on that one.

My wife has a deep history of intimacy avoidance. We got married in our 40's and yet she had only one sexual partner before me. She was really into that person, he was extremely attractive to her. That is because he was unavailable. He was divorcing and had three kids and his ex-wife was sleeping all around town and spending the kids college money. My wife stepped in to take care of the kids and tried to earn his love. I think it was a whirlwind relationship because it was a rebound relationship for him. I know those, I had one two. Mine didn't last 3 years, more like 5 months, but I do remember the intensity. As a result of that relationship, she did major work on herself and when she met me, she instantly had this warm safe feeling. I didn't get her all excited but she insists that's a bad thing for her. I feel that she hasn't learned to separate good excitement from bad. She's just stuffed all excitement into the "bad" category. Ironically, because I am a healthy match for her, I feel less desired. I have been stuck in comparison mode and have been insanely jealous.

We both agreed to work with the coaches who wrote "The Sex-Starved Marriage". I had been complaining for over a year but when I told her the marriage was in peril, she got right on it. She does love me and does desire me, but she doesn't speak the language at least with me and I am jealous because I believe (maybe falsely) that she spoke it before.

For my part, I didn't speak up for my needs early in the relationship for fear that it wouldn't work out and I do believe it would have failed.

I have my first 1-on-1 with the marriage coach tomorrow. I'm trying to let go of the jealousy and the feelings of being inadequate and just put my faith in the process. It's really hard.

I feel a sense of godly ironic justice. I feel like I'm getting my just desserts for treating my first wife so badly. I've always been good at perspective taking post recovery but feeling these feelings has opened up a new level of empathy for all those who feel undesired.

Also, I don't know if she likes to be wooed. Her guard goes up when I make a move. I just wrote her the deepest sincerest love letter last week and gave it to her with flowers and she said it was really special but she's not really come to me to tell me how much it means to her. She doesn't gush. Right now, we are trying to get back in the saddle with twice per week attempts at being sexual but she wants to control when. She comes to me and says things like "I'd like to try for tonight if there's time" or "I think I can do it tonight". It's not very enthusiastic but it's not at all resentful. But I have been told that this is the way it starts and she has to fake it til she makes it. So I've been told to just accept it that way for now. She also said she wants to do it. So that's the first step. Our focus is on me pleasing her orally (which I already know I can do) and moving to intercourse to work on her vaginal pain and have her concentrate on relaxing. Part of my jealousy is she had intercourse with orgasms with her ex but has essentially cock-blocked me for the past 5 years out of avoidance. She denied me something very special. She's willing to own that know somewhat but it's a slow process.

Thank you for your empathetic words and your encouragement of me and your faith in my marriage. They are greatly appreciated.

-Quinn

Cooking is foreplay , just saying lol
Any act of service is foreplay especially if the man does it lol