Quinn's marriage journal

[Faceplanter]

Wow. What a workout. My arms are shaking and I can barely type.

This morning I told her about the anticipation I feel and how I feel compelled to make sure everything is out of the way for her so that she can be sexual. She immediately told me that was controlling behavior. I got upset at that. She is the one who told me this. She is the one who showed me this. I am having an anxiety response and she's telling me it's controlling. I told her not to think of it as something I'm trying to get her to do but something I'm trying to do to make the situation more available and asked that she have more empathy for my feelings and take the perspective that that's maybe how a person who is physically deprived might react.

Then I asked her in advance if she would consider "the gift" tonight. I told her I'm just in a place where I desperately need to feel that connection. She said she would consider it but wanted assurances from me that I would accept what she has to offer at whatever level she has to offer it and not judge the situation as not good enough and sulk. I said I would endeavor to do that but I might make suggestions during the process to help increase the connection.

I was feeling overwhelmed and have a lot to do today. Quinny used to do the meal planning and I took it over recently. She text me this morning from work and said if it would help she could take that back on. I responded that I'm only feeling emotionally overwhelmed right now and can take care of the meal prep. I would like her to just focus on helping me where I asked which is more physical intimacy and less criticism/more compliments. She texted back "Ok!".

Peace,
-Quinn

I think that receiving whatever gift you wife gives you is very important.

I'm not happy with my marriage intimacy, and I'm not happy with variety, but post reboot I have been more content with receiving what she is able to give, whereas before too many handjobs would start frustration growing. It's better for me too when I can leave all that frustration behind.

 

[need4realchg]

Wow. Your level of relationally Intimacy is astounding. I see it makes me want to skim through parts where i see conflict. I force my self to reread and i see how uncomfortable it makes me. Wow. It’s incredibly revealing that I’m unable to face emotions we share in common. Bravo ... well written.

It helps me see how if a couple doesn’t make good roots when they are young when they grow old they will have more difficulty in managing conflict. It’s kinda a warning for me and i don’t mean any disrespect.

I read the physical restraints (soreness knees, etc) and my mind wants to escape. Again. That is probably the fantasy- I seek to maintain stress-free sex. I can’t imagine giving up the expectation of good sex to settle for awkward, coitus interruptus. Wow. I hadn’t noticed that in myself. It’s humbling to see I hold an image of intimacy not reality still.

I read how you share your vulnerability on wanting sex and I see you just waiting and unfulfilled. I don’t want to overtake my privilege to write you, but this is a huge fear of mine. Your wife shrinks and I too want to escape.

Have you considered this as anxiety-attachment? I recently started looking into emotional focused therapy suggested by another SO here. It has been enlightening. Wow. I have that too. Ugh I understand how this is draining, it comes across very clearly. I feel drained for you my brother.

You sound perfectionist—- would you say that’s true? I ask you as an admitted perfectionist who , also like you, gets upset when I was told by my wife that I was controlling.

I would always say—“ it wasn’t called controlling when I was using the same skill-set to do romántic dates , or propose, or be creative. I had a “way” or “vision” of what I was trying to create and achieve and you enjoyed it then. Now it’s called controlling ?”

But honestly she’s right about me. Not sure if you would say your wife is right in your case?

Cooking. Ahh the laboratory of love. Most times , I am an excellent chef, and my family loves to have me cook on special occasions or church potluck...and yes the failure in getting everything right turns me into Gordon Ramsey—minus the f-bomb. I sometimes demand perfection even if I’m smiling. This expectation really sucks. My kids make fun of me when I go to Starbucks and they mess up a drink. “Daddy did it come out perfecttttt?” My daughter will ask me teasingly... I don’t give people space and freedoms to fail.

Lastly — you say “panda”, that was an interesting animal to use. In marketing animals are powerful metaphors to describe feelings and even goals in how we feel. When I do consulting we use this. What animal do you identify with and why?

You write that she questions your high expectations. But do you?

Man I hope i don’t sound high and mighty , I assure you there’s plenty of homework for me; just trying to be reflective and connect emotionally with my repressive nature and support you. If it’s not helpful please feel free to chuck all of this.

I’m rooting for you, selfishly but sincerely,

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Just got off the phone with my wife. We talked through the meals for the week and I asked her to pick up some GF pasta from TJs (she eats GF due to her illness, it is a requirement). Then, I got the 2nd quote for chimney rebuilds on our old house. We talked those out. She was very warm on the phone. She told me how much she appreciates everything I do and is very grateful for me. She told me that she has been thinking about me all day. That is what I needed to hear.

In response to the comments, thank you for them. I really appreciate others writing on my journal. It is very helpful:

I don't think I am a perfectionist but I do think:
1. I'm afraid to make a mistake in front of my wife specifically (so maybe perfectionist for her)
2. I'm impatient
3. I'm needy
4. I have trouble dealing with hard emotions
5. I have high expectations
6. I catastophize and don't give the benefit of the doubt to my partner.
7. I am controlling in that (see #6) unless she explicitly tells me her mind state, I assume the worst and need (see #3) her to provide reassurance (like when she says "Ok!" I assume she might be mad at me and not telling me something rather than just accepting her "Ok!" as ok.

I appreciate the comment that there is a lot of intimacy and vulnerability between us. It doesn't seem that way on the surface. I think I was focusing on the fact that we have been going through so much is a sign that we were so negligent with each other but maybe we are better at it than I give us credit for. The conversations and communication has been so hard. I guess that means we're going really deep. But wow does it ever feel uncomfortable. The marriage coach would probably say stop talking so much which makes me feel in the moment that what we're doing is wrong. It's hard to convey the emotion and the anxiety we both feel when we are communicating in this journal but it's so hard, it's terrifying really.

My work-out was amazing. I felt like such a man lifting those weights. I really pushed myself and the trainer really pushed me. It is the one area in my life where I feel like a man accomplishing something. In that arena, even though I'm a lanky 25 pounds under weight, I have a determination to reach a goal (25 pounds back on in muscle) and I am enjoying the journey instead of pining for the destination.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

What a great weekend.

I talked to Quinny on the phone Friday afternoon about the house contract work I am arranging and meal prep for the week. She was so nice on the phone. She said she had been thinking about me all day.

When she got home she was very nice, gave me lots of compliments and no criticisms or negative tone. I cooked an amazing dinner. Every Friday night we celebrate a religious holiday. We sing songs with our daughter, light candles, and she gets to have juice and a special bread. Usually doing this with a 2 year old can be a hectic and stressful experience but it went smoothly that night.

I was in a good mood. During kiddo bath time, my daughter wanted me to sing more songs and I started dancing and marching around the bathroom while Quinny gave the bath. I have a good singing voice and am very enthusiastic and boisterous with my daughter. At one point Quinny stopped me and said “I’m finding you very attractive right now”.

Later that night, she gave me “the gift”. And wow did she ever. She was so into it. It’s that time of the month for her so she was not in a place of receiving but she wanted to focus just on giving pleasure to me. And boy did she. She undressed me while kissing me and running her hands over my body. She made a lot of eye contact and smiled. I could tell she was really into it. It must have lasted 30-45 minutes. I could have gone on for hours but I asked her to give me one of her “finishing moves” and she was so into it when she did. She said afterwards she felt sexy and was really aroused herself.

It was a beautiful weekend here so we took our daughter to the playground each day. On Saturday afternoon, we took her for a stroller walk through the wooded park. My daughter preferred walking and pushing her own stroller. We stopped by the stream to give her a snack. It was the first time we’ve ever gone on a walk with our daughter where she did the walking. On Sunday, we went on a short hike in the mountains. She rode in a pack on my back on the hike. My daughter is kind of a big girl and I’m not a very strong guy (yet). But I felt like a man carrying my daughter on a hike.

We weren’t sexual any other time on the weekend but that was fine. We were so connected. I felt very present with her and she with me. She actually put her head on my shoulder a few times and was very affectionate with me. Not in the way of “I know you need touch so here’s some touch.”, she wanted to touch me. We smiled into each other’s eyes many times. A few times for at least a minute, many times just a few seconds of love. She felt emotionally and physically drawn to me in a deeply affectionate way. I told her I felt like I was falling in love all over again. She did not say the same thing back to me but she nodded with a smile and softening of her eyes.

On Sunday night before bed, we were sitting on the couch and she said “I still get a little anxious when looking into your eyes or when we touch and I worry about not being good enough.” And I said are you talking about performance and she said no and I said intimacy, and she said “yes. I’m still afraid you’re going to reject me with all of my ‘warts’”. And I said “I love you, warts and all” and she asked “even the ones you haven’t seen yet” and I said “I don’t care about those. I love you so deeply. I’ve never felt this way for anyone else and all of my love is for you”. With that, she melted her head into my shoulder.

So, what have I learned this weekend, how have I/we grown:

Well, for starters, I could tell when she said she was “thinking about me” on Friday, that she had been hitting the Google at work. She had taken initiative to figure out how her negative tone had impacted the relationship and hurt intimacy. I could tell that she got tips on how to show her man that she desires him, etc. But she didn’t just read a book and do the exercises per se, she really meant what she was doing. It helped bring out her love and attraction for me.

My jealousy is way down. I wouldn’t say gone gone but it is maybe 10% of what it was. In my jealousy, I was comparing what someone else had that I felt I lacked. Well, I am the winner here, not him. She broke up with him. She married me. So I started looking at my own assets. I started thinking, “what are my attractive strengths and how can I accentuate and nurture them?”. Here’s an example: Quinny loves a man who can cook. I have no idea whether her ex was a good cook or not and I’m never going to ask. I don’t care. I do most of the cooking in my house and recently I decided that I liked it. It makes _me_ feel attractive. I’ve started getting really into it. I might even take a class in fine French cuisine if I can find the time. I cook in front of her, I show confidence and let her soak it in.

When we were being sexual on Friday night, my O was amazing. But not just that, I was focused on the pleasure and the connection with her, not the O. I did not know that I could be sexual for hours focusing on receiving pleasure. I also realized I attached too much to the idea that I had to be able to please her, specifically with intercourse. While I do think that it is important, it is only one aspect of being sexual with her. I think allowing her to focus on pleasing me helps me to get my performance anxiety out of my head and helps her do the same. I kinda thought she was the one with that problem but I think I’m just as anxious about that as she is.

I also learned that emotional and intellectual connection is what we both need for a greater sexual experience. I was starting with the sex because to me sex is the ultimate expression of that connection and I thought, “well, she needs the emotional and intellectual connection so I should do that for her” but in reality I need it to. It is the foundation of good sex. It turns out I need that too for the sexual experience to be fulfilling. I need the safety and trust to be fully vulnerable as well. My needs around safety and trust are slightly different, but I still need that foundation. I think she is having the mirror experience. I think her experience is initially thinking “well, he needs the sexual experience for connection so I should do that for him” but in reality she is discovering that it bring her closer to me in a way that she likes as well.

I know there will be ups and downs but I do see how it is possible to have an upward spiral effect when we both are willing to be vulnerable and jump into it together.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Wow, what a night. I still have anxiety for some reason but I'm trying to let all the good feelings in.

*EXPLICIT POST* so skip if you're easily triggered by descriptions of sexual acts.

Last night, we put the kiddo down easily and I was doing dishes in the kitchen when Quinny came in and said "I feel good and have good energy. I'm not horny but I'm willing to see if I can get there." And I said "ok, that sounds good". So it was kind of a lukewarm come-on and a lukewarm acceptance by me. But it was optimistic and we both agreed no expectations. Whatever happens happens. Taking off that pressure is very important for her. It turns out it's important for me, too. So, here's what happened:

We went upstairs to the bedroom. We started undressing each other. She noticed I smelled differently. I told her I changed one of my hygiene products. She said it smelled good (later afterwards, she told me it smelled sexy). Then we started making out on the bed and I started stimulating her with my hand. What was different for me is that I didn't focus on her pleasure and obsess with whether or not I could get her anywhere. I focused on my own pleasure. The feelings and the pleasure of touching her where no other man can. How soft she felt, her increasing wetness. I listened to her breath change, how her breath was in sync with her motions against my hand. I listened to my own breath which was just as deep and rhythmic. After a little while she asked me to go down on her. When I did, I focused again on my own pleasure and my own emotions but I became even more in sync with her pleasure. She usually goes inside her head when I go down on her because she has to concentrate so much. But this time, she was more connected to me. Our motions were in sync. In a passionate soft voice she said "that feels so good, you are so good". She was heightening with pleasure, not quite O but heightening gradually. Then she asked to come on top of me for more oral stimulation. She usually has an O that way. Her pleasure heightened even more and I could feel the passion between us. I don't know if she had a mini-O or not but then she asked to try me going inside her but first she wanted to rub against me for a little while to help her relax. I assured her that she was calling all the shots, I wouldn't move or take any action without her telling me to. It's difficult for me to keep an erection in this scenario but I didn't worry about. When she was ready, I wasn't quite hard enough so she touched me for a minute and I was ready enough. I went inside of her just a little and I wasn't as big as I normally am. It was tense for her going in and she said outloud to herself in a gentle voice "relax relax". I accidentally slipped out of her. Normally at this point, it's a stop, she doesn't want to try again but she did this time. I went back inside of her and she again said in a gentle voice "relax relax". Then she asked me to move inside of her, to push myself into her. I wasn't deep inside of her, maybe two or three inches. But when she is on top, she prefers I thrust into her and stimulate her clitoris with my penis rather than her bouncing up and down on me. She quickly started feeling pleasure and was calling out "oh oh" with each thrust. She looked into my eyes briefly and then arched her head back and had an orgasm. We stayed in an embrace for a few minutes before she asked me to come out of her. Afterwards we stayed in a strong embrace with her on top of me for a long time. Then we laid down on the bed side by side and just embraced each other for maybe 15 minutes.

Then we started slowly talking with each other. She said "wow, I guess I really am a responsive desire person. That seems to really work for me. Hopefully if we keep this up for a while, I will start to connect those feelings with my everyday experience and I will experience even more spontaneous desire." Then she told me my new deodorant smelled sexy and manly. She said if I build those muscles, keep cooking up a storm, and smell like that, I'll just be irresistible to her. She was semi-joking/semi-serious about that. She always said those things didn't matter but I knew that they did. I knew that she was inexperienced enough that she hadn't really thought about what turns her on. She never really focused on it for herself. Then she said, "there you did it, you made me come with your penis. How do you feel?" And I said I felt great.

Then we do what married couples do, after laying there a little while longer, she got up to wash up and when she came back in, we had a conversation while still naked about the chimney work on our house and about our daughter's transition to the 2 year old room at daycare. I had to get up and take care of a few things in the house before morning so we weren't able to go to bed together. But I came back in as she was going to sleep and looked softly into her eyes and gave her a soft kiss on the cheek and told her how much I loved her.

I did not have an O, we just focused on her pleasure. I was physically very sore because of that but I didn't worry about it. I wanted her to enjoy her experience with me fully including the relaxing feeling afterwards without worry about having to do something for me. I admit that was a little hard, I had a little voice telling me to speak up but I knew it was wrong. If she offered I would accept but if she did not, I would be fine. Remembering no expectations.

This morning she woke up early a little after 5. So did our daughter but she's not allowed to get up until the clock turns yellow at 5:45. Quinny went into the room to try and calm her and remind her about the clock but it didn't work. So I went in and did the same and for some reason my daughter listens to me at least on this issue. Quinny was like "how did you do that, she won't listen to me" and I said "for this, she listens to me, there's plenty of times she doesn't for other things". During breakfast Quinny told me, even though I woke up early today, for some reason I feel very rested.

I wonder why....

I feel very happy right now. I wanted so badly to get to a place where I could please her in this way and it has happened much much sooner than I expected. I have done it before, it's not like it never happened, but this time was different. We are starting to be more connected and passionate in our lovemaking and I'm starting to see desire in her.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[need4realchg]

Wow, what a night. I still have anxiety for some reason but I'm trying to let all the good feelings in.

*EXPLICIT POST* so skip if you're easily triggered by descriptions of sexual acts.

Last night, we put the kiddo down easily and I was doing dishes in the kitchen when Quinny came in and said "I feel good and have good energy. I'm not horny but I'm willing to see if I can get there." And I said "ok, that sounds good". So it was kind of a lukewarm come-on and a lukewarm acceptance by me. But it was optimistic and we both agreed no expectations. Whatever happens happens. Taking off that pressure is very important for her. It turns out it's important for me, too. So, here's what happened:

We went upstairs to the bedroom. We started undressing each other. She noticed I smelled differently. I told her I changed one of my hygiene products. She said it smelled good (later afterwards, she told me it smelled sexy). Then we started making out on the bed and I started stimulating her with my hand. What was different for me is that I didn't focus on her pleasure and obsess with whether or not I could get her anywhere. I focused on my own pleasure. The feelings and the pleasure of touching her where no other man can. How soft she felt, her increasing wetness. I listened to her breath change, how her breath was in sync with her motions against my hand. I listened to my own breath which was just as deep and rhythmic. After a little while she asked me to go down on her. When I did, I focused again on my own pleasure and my own emotions but I became even more in sync with her pleasure. She usually goes inside her head when I go down on her because she has to concentrate so much. But this time, she was more connected to me. Our motions were in sync. In a passionate soft voice she said "that feels so good, you are so good". She was heightening with pleasure, not quite O but heightening gradually. Then she asked to come on top of me for more oral stimulation. She usually has an O that way. Her pleasure heightened even more and I could feel the passion between us. I don't know if she had a mini-O or not but then she asked to try me going inside her but first she wanted to rub against me for a little while to help her relax. I assured her that she was calling all the shots, I wouldn't move or take any action without her telling me to. It's difficult for me to keep an erection in this scenario but I didn't worry about. When she was ready, I wasn't quite hard enough so she touched me for a minute and I was ready enough. I went inside of her just a little and I wasn't as big as I normally am. It was tense for her going in and she said outloud to herself in a gentle voice "relax relax". I accidentally slipped out of her. Normally at this point, it's a stop, she doesn't want to try again but she did this time. I went back inside of her and she again said in a gentle voice "relax relax". Then she asked me to move inside of her, to push myself into her. I wasn't deep inside of her, maybe two or three inches. But when she is on top, she prefers I thrust into her and stimulate her clitoris with my penis rather than her bouncing up and down on me. She quickly started feeling pleasure and was calling out "oh oh" with each thrust. She looked into my eyes briefly and then arched her head back and had an orgasm. We stayed in an embrace for a few minutes before she asked me to come out of her. Afterwards we stayed in a strong embrace with her on top of me for a long time. Then we laid down on the bed side by side and just embraced each other for maybe 15 minutes.

Then we started slowly talking with each other. She said "wow, I guess I really am a responsive desire person. That seems to really work for me. Hopefully if we keep this up for a while, I will start to connect those feelings with my everyday experience and I will experience even more spontaneous desire." Then she told me my new deodorant smelled sexy and manly. She said if I build those muscles, keep cooking up a storm, and smell like that, I'll just be irresistible to her. She was semi-joking/semi-serious about that. She always said those things didn't matter but I knew that they did. I knew that she was inexperienced enough that she hadn't really thought about what turns her on. She never really focused on it for herself. Then she said, "there you did it, you made me come with your penis. How do you feel?" And I said I felt great.

Then we do what married couples do, after laying there a little while longer, she got up to wash up and when she came back in, we had a conversation while still naked about the chimney work on our house and about our daughter's transition to the 2 year old room at daycare. I had to get up and take care of a few things in the house before morning so we weren't able to go to bed together. But I came back in as she was going to sleep and looked softly into her eyes and gave her a soft kiss on the cheek and told her how much I loved her.

I did not have an O, we just focused on her pleasure. I was physically very sore because of that but I didn't worry about it. I wanted her to enjoy her experience with me fully including the relaxing feeling afterwards without worry about having to do something for me. I admit that was a little hard, I had a little voice telling me to speak up but I knew it was wrong. If she offered I would accept but if she did not, I would be fine. Remembering no expectations.

This morning she woke up early a little after 5. So did our daughter but she's not allowed to get up until the clock turns yellow at 5:45. Quinny went into the room to try and calm her and remind her about the clock but it didn't work. So I went in and did the same and for some reason my daughter listens to me at least on this issue. Quinny was like "how did you do that, she won't listen to me" and I said "for this, she listens to me, there's plenty of times she doesn't for other things". During breakfast Quinny told me, even though I woke up early today, for some reason I feel very rested.

I wonder why....

I feel very happy right now. I wanted so badly to get to a place where I could please her in this way and it has happened much much sooner than I expected. I have done it before, it's not like it never happened, but this time was different. We are starting to be more connected and passionate in our lovemaking and I'm starting to see desire in her.

Peace,
-Quinn

Great post mate.

I look up to you so please don’t misread my question; just trying to learn from my elders.

My question is : how do you focus on you, i see it was enjoyable yet not o? Obviously this works with women more than men..?

I have heard of couples enjoying sex without orgasms— I guess it’s hard to conceive how achieve this in satisfaction or maybe in what mindset a couple has to be to enjoy this?

Kinda like those movies that don’t have any type of denouement... I just don’t know how to contrast it.

Help ?

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

*EXPLICIT POST*
I do think for a dude, it is difficult to get really aroused and then forgo the O. Just mechanically it is harder to do. It's not a character flaw, it's physiology. However, it is possible.

I've been doing a lot of reading on how to remove expectations from the sexual experience to lower the pressure of performance for both partners. For example, when I have expectations, my wife has to concentrate on outcomes and the more she thinks "I have to O, I have to O" the less likely she is going to. Also for me, my expectations create a backlash against my own performance "I need her to O, I"m not making her O, what am I doing wrong?".

So, the general advice that I have read is to focus on pleasure not orgasm. Focusing on pleasure is about the experience of the present moment. Focusing on orgasm is about a future expectation. When focusing on orgasm, we are taken out of the present moment.

When I focus on my own pleasure, it helps me stop worrying about hers. Let her be responsible for that. I've heard it said that we never really give someone else an orgasm, we give ourselves an orgasm with our partners help.

So, what does it mean for me right now to focus on my own pleasure? I'll give you the details of each experience as I recall it

Well, on Friday night when Quinny was giving me "the gift" it meant focusing on:
- the physical feeling of being kissed all over my body as she removed my clothing
- the physical feeling of her hands running down my back and my chest as she removed my clothing
- the emotional feeling of being wanted by my partner
- the emotional feeling I felt when she looked deep into my eyes with a look of "I want to give you pleasure"
- the physical feeling of her tongue stroking my penis
- the physical feeling of my penis inside her mouth stroking me with her lips
- the physical feeling of her stimulating me to climax between her breasts
- the emotional feeling of connection when she looked into my eyes while she did that
- the emotional feeling of being free to fully express my pleasure in her presence the entire time (safety and security)
- the emotional feeling of being deeply cared about and loved by her
- the emotional feeling of watching her enjoy what she was doing for me

On Monday night when we had intercourse
- enjoying the humor when we started making out and had a funny conversation about my deodorant. The feeling of being light-hearted together.
- the physical feeling of stimulating her with my finger. What it physically felt like to touch her
- the emotional feeling of feeling like the most special person to her for being the only one who could touch her in this way
- listening to the sounds of her breath and her moans
- listening to the sounds of my breath and my moans (it turns me on when I touch her body)
- enjoying the taste of her vagina
- the feeling of her softness against my lips and my toungue
- the feeling of confidence and masculinity when I gave her an orgasm with my penis and the feeling of her wanting me to
- the emotional feeling of being wanted and desired by my partner
- the feeling of our bodies together
- the comfort of our post-coital conversation
- the smell of her on my face afterwards (she suggested I was up but I love that smell and I didn't wash up until morning)

Basically, wake up all 5 senses and tune into them.

I'm an older guy, for many years when I have had an orgasm, it's kinda just dribbled out of me. I thought it was age, they say that's what happens. But the past few weeks with Quinny, I could have practically hit the ceiling. When focusing on pleasure and emotional connection, the O is WAY better.

Honestly, for me at this time, having a orgasm may bring more physical pleasure to me in the moment, but giving her an orgasm is more fulfilling to me emotionally and makes me feel confident and secure in my relationship.

I hope this helps. Did I answer your questions as you asked them?

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[need4realchg]

*EXPLICIT POST*
I do think for a dude, it is difficult to get really aroused and then forgo the O. Just mechanically it is harder to do. It's not a character flaw, it's physiology. However, it is possible.

I've been doing a lot of reading on how to remove expectations from the sexual experience to lower the pressure of performance for both partners. For example, when I have expectations, my wife has to concentrate on outcomes and the more she thinks "I have to O, I have to O" the less likely she is going to. Also for me, my expectations create a backlash against my own performance "I need her to O, I"m not making her O, what am I doing wrong?".

So, the general advice that I have read is to focus on pleasure not orgasm. Focusing on pleasure is about the experience of the present moment. Focusing on orgasm is about a future expectation. When focusing on orgasm, we are taken out of the present moment.

When I focus on my own pleasure, it helps me stop worrying about hers. Let her be responsible for that. I've heard it said that we never really give someone else an orgasm, we give ourselves an orgasm with our partners help.

So, what does it mean for me right now to focus on my own pleasure? I'll give you the details of each experience as I recall it

Well, on Friday night when Quinny was giving me "the gift" it meant focusing on:
- the physical feeling of being kissed all over my body as she removed my clothing
- the physical feeling of her hands running down my back and my chest as she removed my clothing
- the emotional feeling of being wanted by my partner
- the emotional feeling I felt when she looked deep into my eyes with a look of "I want to give you pleasure"
- the physical feeling of her tongue stroking my penis
- the physical feeling of my penis inside her mouth stroking me with her lips
- the physical feeling of her stimulating me to climax between her breasts
- the emotional feeling of connection when she looked into my eyes while she did that
- the emotional feeling of being free to fully express my pleasure in her presence the entire time (safety and security)
- the emotional feeling of being deeply cared about and loved by her
- the emotional feeling of watching her enjoy what she was doing for me

On Monday night when we had intercourse
- enjoying the humor when we started making out and had a funny conversation about my deodorant. The feeling of being light-hearted together.
- the physical feeling of stimulating her with my finger. What it physically felt like to touch her
- the emotional feeling of feeling like the most special person to her for being the only one who could touch her in this way
- listening to the sounds of her breath and her moans
- listening to the sounds of my breath and my moans (it turns me on when I touch her body)
- enjoying the taste of her vagina
- the feeling of her softness against my lips and my toungue
- the feeling of confidence and masculinity when I gave her an orgasm with my penis and the feeling of her wanting me to
- the emotional feeling of being wanted and desired by my partner
- the feeling of our bodies together
- the comfort of our post-coital conversation
- the smell of her on my face afterwards (she suggested I was up but I love that smell and I didn't wash up until morning)

Basically, wake up all 5 senses and tune into them.

I'm an older guy, for many years when I have had an orgasm, it's kinda just dribbled out of me. I thought it was age, they say that's what happens. But the past few weeks with Quinny, I could have practically hit the ceiling. When focusing on pleasure and emotional connection, the O is WAY better.

Honestly, for me at this time, having a orgasm may bring more physical pleasure to me in the moment, but giving her an orgasm is more fulfilling to me emotionally and makes me feel confident and secure in my relationship.

I hope this helps. Did I answer your questions as you asked them?

Peace,
-Quinn

Wow. Definitely eye opening. Yes.
I have been stuck in emotional-cycles for years so this hits a major chord with me. Focus on the feeling.

I have done the opposite —- ignore my feelings far too much. I used to have sex out of obligation as a marriage fulfillment and denying my desires and fantasies to where i snapped. Thinking back, honestly might explain why I’m so rebellious and emotionally driven today.

I am working to undo the ball of knots that misunderstood emotions can leave.

Let me say: In your case, based on what I have read, you have cleanly and clearly delineated the threads of yarn of your insecurities, relationship conflicts, you have challenged respectfully your partner and then cleanly lined them up for both to face so sex is less confusing emotionally.

 

[countdown]

Great posts! Keep up the good work, man!

 

[Faceplanter]

Two comments:

1) the progress you have written about is awesome to me. I am very happy to see that you and you wife are understanding each other better and your intimacy is the better for it.

I am, a little, and could be a lot more, jealous of you success (and other's here too).....bit I realize that is a waste of my time and energy. I hope you can take that as both a compliment to the work you've done and a rebuke to your past / persistent jealousy issues.

2) as for the focus on the pleasure, I agree and I actually really liked what you wrote there. Firstly it is a validation for me that there is pleasure in intimate touch outside of its affect on my wife and second that focus primarily on her pleasure can led paradoxically led to frustration that doesn't work for anyone.

I found after my hard mode reboot 90days that I knew 100% the answer to a question my wife had asked ....would I be as interested in sex if I had no O...... YES. Would I miss the O, sure. Is sex better with O, yes, but is Sex nothing with O? No, it's still important and good.

I think your writing style is excellent too, BTW!

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

@Faceplanter thank you for your kind words. I'm far less certain of my "success" at this point but it does seem like my wife and I have intention and positive change in short order going for us.

Intimacy is terrifying, though. I have butterflies in my stomach all day. My wife even said that to me the other night. As I mentioned previously she admitted to be scared to increase intimacy with me because she has a deep down belief of being unlovable. You wouldn't know it if you met her. She seems very confident and even thinks of herself as a healed person but when you get her talking, she's really very scared to be vulnerable.

And so am I. For all the good and bad, there's been so much change, I've been walking around all my days caring this feeling of anxiety with me. It's hard to eat sometimes. I think my biggest fear in this is that I'm going to have to face all of my "warts", I'm going to have to hear them from my wife's voice. It's going to be hard to stay out of the shame-zone. You see, just like her, I have this belief that my "warts" make me unlovable as well.

I had my second call with the marriage coach today and they made me answer questions in her voice. They were obviously working on my ability to take perspective and have empathy. When I answered the questions, I saw all the ways my own faults have contributed to the situation and owning up
to them and making amends is going to be hard and scary. I've already begun the process. But I think in marriage coaching, we are each going to write an apology letter to the other and read it.

I'm a mixed bag of emotions and feelings right now. Here's what they are:

- deep remorse. I feel so awful about my behavior towards Quinny the past few weeks. Because of my insecurities, I developed so much jealousy and I just put it all on her. I accused her of things I didn't even know were true. I made her out to be a person she insists she wasn't and then I punished her for it. I accused her of withholding from me, of not caring about me, of not desiring me. I was so unfair to her and I couldn't keep my composure or control myself. I took it all out on her. And yet she stuck with me and continued to work through this process. She's amazing, I think most other people would have shut down and shut me out. I think that would have been a reasonable response considering my bad behavior.

- continued feelings of inadequacy. No longer about jealousy of not being man enough and being less desired. But more about my own true faults. I'm afraid I am not a good husband because of the way I behaved. I'm afraid I have real attachment issues (anxiety attachment). I feel broken. I'm internalizing all of this as shame.

- optimistic. Yes, it's hard to reconcile this with the other feelings but the progress in my marriage has been head-spinningly fast. Within a period of a few weeks, our relationship went from "I feel so alone with you and neglected by you and I don't know if I can go on" and "it's all your fault that you don't desire me, that's the problem" to "I need to take ownership of my own issues that have contributed to this problem" to several instances of passionate sex which included:
- Quinny opening up her sexual side to me and willing to take some risks
- Quinny recognizing her own responsive desire pattern (and me gradually accepting of that with her)
- Me relaxing into my own pleasure and feeling safe and confident to fully express it
- Quinny having an orgasm during intercourse despite physical pain issues
- Me practicing patience and being trustworthy day to day and during the sexual experience

I thought it would take months to even get a glimpse of those things. And maybe that's all we have right now, a glimpse. Who's to say?

I do think something I need to work on is living the rest of my life and right-sizing this issue. I have been obsessive about it for the past month and I know that is contributing to the anxiety. I will be working on that.

Peace,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Let me say: In your case, based on what I have read, you have cleanly and clearly delineated the threads of yarn of your insecurities, relationship conflicts, you have challenged respectfully your partner and then cleanly lined them up for both to face so sex is less confusing emotionally.

Thank you. I do think I started out by challenging respectfully but when the jealousy and inadequacy hit, I became very disrespectful and went nuts all over her.

 

[need4realchg]

Thank you. I do think I started out by challenging respectfully but when the jealousy and inadequacy hit, I became very disrespectful and went nuts all over her.

Yeah. I can see how that is. I have seen a few journals in the past 24 hours and I simply can’t wrap my brain around this.

How do couples start to have sex , then stop and start talking about why they don’t like this position, or how that is triggering , or why their body hurts , etc?

I would go immediately into full shutdown mode and go elsewhere. J have such a low tolerance internally for not going through with intercourse once begun.

I admit maybe I have some ideal expectations built in that I do not give any wiggle room for “ouch that hurts, you are too big, I am afraid of this position, “etc. That is just too frustrating to deal with I think.

I used to find coitus interruptus cute (and its distant cousin that I call “ninja sex”) which happened often when we traveled to a relatives house , or when the kids were awake, but now, any obstacle in the way of sex is a minefield of aggravation.

I can see my addict mentality sneering into a shrek attitude. I don’t want to be disrupted or stopped. In fact as I write this I see how determined I am, to not be deterred. I don’t start what I can’t finish, and if it’s even possible— I won’t start down the roads of sex at all. I guess I have deemed the risk of rejection not worth it.

You say you went “nuts”. You don’t mean like “right then and there in the bedroom” right ? You mean at a later time with clothes on or something more normal ??

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

You say you went “nuts”. You don’t mean like “right then and there in the bedroom” right ? You mean at a later time with clothes on or something more normal ??

A little of both. It was very toxic at times. I don't yell and I'm not at all aggressive but I do get sad and desperate and clingy.

How do couples start to have sex , then stop and start talking about why they don’t like this position, or how that is triggering , or why their body hurts , etc?

Couple of things that help with this:
- my wife and I both know about her pain issues and my pleasure issues. We've had those discussions outside of the bedroom in detail. If I've screwed up and hurt her with the pain, she has told me. If I'm not feeling pleasure, I have told her. So we both know what the issues are that could arise before hand.
- We both have intention of making this work. Thus, we both trust each other (or are in the process of building trust, more accurately). Before we had our "come to Jesus" last month, we didn't trust each other. She didn't trust me that I would fully consider her pain when being sexual with her. I didn't trust her that she wanted to be sexual with me. Now, we are working towards that. When we had intercourse the other night right before it happened I told her right before she let me enter her "I won't do anything with intercourse unless you tell me to do it. I will only do what you ask me to do". I gave her complete control of the experience because working through her pain and making her feel safe was key. Without that, we would have failed. With that, she was able to work through the initial pain and then achieve an orgasm in under a minute.
- We both accept where we are right now as where we need to be and good enough for the moment (this is easier for her than for me). I always want to push for progress but that's just pressure to her so I keep that little voice inside of me saying "Quinn, shut up, don't say it.". She needed from me to hear that I was satisfied, nay thrilled, that I had given her an orgasm with my penis. What she did not need to hear (and I did not say) was "but it wasn't pleasurable for me". We both agreed that's not important right now. She did ask me if I came right after she told me she did and I said no. But there was no disappointment in my voice. It was just factual.
- We both think of that communication of what is/is not working as a part of the sexual experience. Maybe it won't be forever but it is right now. We don't really consider it a break in the action. Coitus interruptus is when my daughter cock blocks us and cries out in the middle of the action and we have to go into her room and put her back to sleep.

I hope this helps,
-Quinn

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Feeling really bad today. Just feeling really anxious and down. Been working all day but can't shake this feeling that I don't make my wife happy. It's total bullshit but it has its basis in a string of facts so it's enticing. Time to take a cold shower and make dinner. These feelings get in the way of my happiness. It's like I won't let myself be happy. I gave my wife an O with intercourse the other night, that's the brass ring for me. And yet 2 days later, I'm worried I don't excite her.

Time for the shower...peace.
-Quinn

 

[hope4healing]

Hey, Quinn. How are things? Hope you're feeling better and happy.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Hi everyone. I've started keeping a private journal lately so I havent posted much. Things have been really up and really down but they are starting to settle. I've worked with the marriage coach for three sessions and now it is Quinny's turn for a little while. I've been experiencing extreme anxiety and many sleepless nights but I am moving past the jealousy and gaining empathy for Quinny's situation.

Self-esteem working:
I started guitar lessons
I am working with a trainer at the gym
I'm hiring a personal shopper to help me work on my style

Jealousy work:
Last night I was so tired when I went to bed but then suddenly I couldn't sleep and I was up until 3:30am with the same anxious thought over and over again: Quinny thought her last relationship was glamorous, comparing it to a high heal, it looked really amazing on the outside but it hurt and was uncomfortable on the inside. I looked at old pictures of them together. She was so beautiful. It was before she got sick. She was always dressed to the 9's. I kept focusing on "she doesn't find our relationship glamorous". I couldn't help it. The thing is, I know all of this is bullshit now and doesn't matter. I just have left over anxiety to work with.

The truth is, I can never compete with her first love. No one can do that. There is something about a first love that is special and precious and always will be, even if it turned out bad and miserable in the end. Trying to recreate a first love experience is a fail. We are not each other's firsts. We are the people who grew up and met each other from a more rational and seasoned perspective. That's good for long term but there is a hit the relationship takes in the initial passion stage.

But I can compete on being _available_ which he was not. By available, I always thought that meant being a doormat. Doing things for her to earn her love for me. But I just got taken advantage of, not maliciously, just she became the emotionally dominant one and behaved accordingly. By be available, I mean, being the one who makes space for her in our relationship (he never did), listens to her when she needs someone (he never did). This is what she wants from me. And ultimately, it's what she wanted from him that he could not provide.

Quinny was going to be a classical musician when she grew up. She played clarinet. When she went to Yale, she opted for biology instead. She stopped playing the clarinet and then later as an adult picked up the cello which was her true passion. I play the piano and went to University of Miami school of music but I never did that pro nor was a a terrific classical player. I studied recording engineering but eventually switched to computer science and today I am a network engineering consultant. Her ex played the viola and is dean of a music school at a small university. He was a snob, he criticized her playing, told her adults couldn't pick up new instruments, he never believed in her. I love her playing. I miss it. Her hands and wrists are sore with arthritis and she hasn't been able to play much since our daughter came into our lives. The medication she is on may be causing her to lose her voice and she can't sing either. It is heartbreaking. I'm trying to help her get back into it. It means the world to her and I love to hear her play. The cello is the most beautiful instrument in the world. It sounds like a male voice singing deep from the diaphragm.

What's been going on:
Last Sunday night, we had amazing sex. She was really in the mood. I was actually tired from all of my lack of sleep but she came up to me when I was lying on the couch and said "you know that raincheck from last night? I'd like to cash it in. I'm going upstairs, when you come up, I want you to come up without your shirt on just wearing your jeans". So, I decided to make it even more fun and playful. I went to the basement and put on my toolbelt. When I came upstairs she was lying on the bed in a negligee wearing my daughter's halloween costume hat on her head. We both cracked up. Being playful is a good way to ease the tension and to create excitement for us. We had so much pleasure, she had an orgasm, maybe a couple, so hard that she was grinning ear to ear and couldn't sleep for hours afterwards. She looked at me afterwards with her smile and said "I am soooo happy". I came inside her, too, which it has been almost a year since I have done that. We embraced tightly in silence afterwards for maybe 20-30 minutes saying nothing, just clutching each other close.

The next day, she completely pulled away from me, was critical and closed off. I thought, wtf. I got mad at her that night and told her, hey you may think I'm needy and should think because of last night that should be enough for me, but you need to look at the ways you just completely shut me out as well. You're a part of this, too. It's not just I'm needy. You are withdrawing. She said she just did not want to touch or be touched at all that day. I and I said, "ok that's fine, I get that. But you need to understand that what you want affects me as well and you can't always just make solo decisions about your needs without regard for the marriage. You slept terribly last night and so you needed some rest and some downtime to yourself. I was tired today as well but I took our daughter out to the playground in the morning, patched her skinned knees, took her for a haircut, took her to get a snack from Whole Foods, sat with her in the park, etc for 3 1/2 hours this morning so you could have some time to yourself. That was an "act of service", your love language. I was tired, too, but I did that for you. I want you to understand that you telling me with your body language and your behavior (which was cold and aggressive) rather than saying "I had a wonderful time last night but I need a little space right now" would be the equivalent of you waking up exhausted like you did and me saying to you, "tough shit, I'm going out this morning to do what I want to do, you take care of our daughter".

She got that, she almost started to cry.

Two days ago, she was tired and said she just wanted to watch something dumb on TV. That's usually my queue to leave her alone and go do something else but instead I said "let's watch something together and maybe we can snuggle on the couch" and she said "as long as we can find a way that's comfortable, yes let's do that". We did find a comfortable way to do it. She layed her back against my chest. Sometimes we put our heads together and nuzzled, not just me making the moves but her as well. I was in heaven. I like the non-sexual lovey-dovey affection as well. It also made us enjoy the movie _together_ as well. I went through a resentment phase where I thought she didn't want to snuggle with me but the thing is, she offered snuggling and I turned it down all the time. It was always because I was trying to initiate sex and she was rejecting sex but countering with "but I'd love to snuggle with you". That was never good enough for me, I was focused on the rejection. I didn't realize how much I was turning down snuggling and I was blaming her for something that wasn't her fault at all.

So yesterday, we were intending to be sexual last night but by the time the evening came around, Quinny was exhausted, just wiped out. Major job stresses, she could lose her job or if she keeps it, it could get harder with lots of travel. She felt so bad, she said she wanted to be there for me and felt like a terrible wife. I've had a bit of an epiphany and am coming out of my selfish self and I said to her:

"Quinny, our sexual time together is about us, not about me. I don't want you to think of it as a chore, that won't work for either of us. If you can't do it, you can't do it, I'm fine." And then I said "you are going through a lot right now. The new school year has started up and that brings stress and traffic, our daughter wants you to take care of her after work every day, you have to work a full day, pick her up at daycare, drive home almost 40 minutes while she fusses, and then when you get home, you have to do so much for her and we have to put her to bed which takes over an hour, it's exhausting. You also are sick, you have chronic illness, it affects your ability to enjoy your body, it causes you to be depressed. You have responsive desire, it takes a lot for you to get going. You're going through anxiety about your job, that's really stressful." and a few other things. We then solutioned on ways we could work together as a team to make things better for us.

She said "you are saying things very differently than you have been for the past month". I said I have been doing a lot of thinking and a lot of work. She said, "I do desire you and I am attracted to you and I do want to be with you sexually" and I said "I know, I do believe that".

When we went to bed, after the lights were turned off, she said "thank you for what you said to me tonight. I feel like for the first time in a long time you are really seeing me."

So, again, that's what "available" means. It means validating and empathizing and working together to find solutions that work for _us_. This will increase her _emotional_ attraction to me. Then, as I start taking care of myself with what I listed above (guitar, working out, etc), it will increase my confidence and that will increase her _sexual_ attraction to me. She says she doesn't need any of those things but I have seen evidence over the past month on how they really do matter. I don't think she really thinks about what is attractive to her, it just kinda happens. She doesn't process verbally. But we all process in our own way and it does matter. I want the confidence for myself as well. I want to increase my attraction to myself as well.

I wrote my apology letter to her, an exercise from the marriage coaching, now I have to tweak it based on the coach's recommendations and then give it to her. I am supposed to give it to her without being present, not to read it to her. So I might leave it on the seat of her car on a morning when she goes to work but I am taking our daughter to daycare.

We are going to make it. I've never been so in love before.

-Quinn

 

[Despicable me]

Quinn, you are a good man. It shines trough your writings. I believe that you both love eachother, but maybe lack in self love. Feeling of enadequet, I have the same feeling, and my woman did also. We both loved eachother, and felt that the otherone didnt. But the love we didnt feel and feeling of not being good enough, came from inside. We did stupid mistakes and hurted eachother, lied to eachother and thus didnt have honest, deep conversations, that was fatal. We were honest with eachother, the relationship was ended by her, but I still have faith. Even if not together, we can talk now, I missed that, couldnt open myself emotionally, and now I did. You both are on the right track, dont forget that, and keep fighting for eachother. My prayers are with you tonight.

 

[mrtumnus]

Quinn, how you been? Sorry couldn't resist

But seriously, hope things are well with you.