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Our world would be very different with out Christ.
Tell’em. Even modern atheists life has been impacted by Christ and our culture as well.
You nor anyone else can't tell what would happen otherwise. But if you really want to guess, It's pretty clear how you should bet. History tells us that with an increased importance of Christianity, the formerly civilized Europe fell into a dark age which didn't end until God died during the Enlightenment. Today the society is the safest, happiest and the most prosperous it has ever been while being nearly completely atheistic.
Two world wars, Stalinism , Maoism yeah atheism really bring world peace. Before the enlightenment, there was the reformation, the reformation was important because he easily facilitated the enlightenment. Tell me where dark age is related to Christianity, people blame Christianity but before Christianity Europe was much worse and the moral law that your “atheist” mostly came from the Bible .
I didn't say atheism is sufficient for the wellness of society. However, it might be necessary.
The Reformation helped the Enlightenment by destroying the authority of the Church. Martin Luther might have done for the demise of Christianity more than any other single individual.
No it wasn't, as I already said. Plato's Athens was a much better place to live than Paris a thousand years later. Negative progress for a millenium ... thanks Jeebus!
No it didn't. Why do you keep saying that?
The reformation did impacted the church but positively. The Catholic Church was using the Bible for power and politics but Luther reform opened eyes of many believers in the world including mine.
Plato athens was better ? I mean maybe yes but religion has nothing to do With it so this is not our point of discussion.
European civilization and culture has been impacted by Christianity mostly.
The argument I quote is pro-atheism, not anti-Christian. That said, let's see how smart our little debate champion here is, shall we @jk243 ?
So, he says:
Let's educate someone, shall we?
I don't know where they taught you maths, but last I checked, 7% was nowhere "nearly completely". Not even if I double or triple the value does it reach halfway to the majority, far less "nearly complete".
Let's break down a few other points while we're at it.
By definition, safe here refers to the establishment of law and order worldwide.
Where can you draw a correlation between this and atheism?
In fact, of the 10 safest countries in the world, 8 are predominantly religious. It's actually 9, but Singapore is "just" at 60% so I'll omit it.
Of the 10 happiest nations in the world, all 10 are religious societies.
I can't quote the top 10 on this, as it would be unfair (7 are still religious-dominant, I might add) because economy and health also fall under this category and is a worldwide affair, limited by resource distribution and opportunity cost, unlike safety and joy.
That said, we need to go right back to worldwide statistics, which place your "nearly completely" atheistic communities at a measly 7% of the global population.
Save your time @jk243
He's here to win an argument, not learn from a debate.
Nice army of straw men you have there.
We're talking about Europe
Census data regarding religion is very unreliable
Correct. If I wanted to learn something I'd probably choose a different strategy to achieve that than arguing about religion on a porn recovery forum.
21% agnostic and atheists.
All my points still hold.
Guess I have to take your word for this because you're the one who supervised its collection, right?
Clearly, this was the same approach you used in school, because 21% amounts to "nearly complety" in your head somewhere.
I'm not arguing with the fact that a lot of Europeans still call themselves Christians - it's true. But they're not Christian, at least not in the sense their (our) ancestors where.
In the past centuries the Christian God really was omnipresent - but not in the theological sense. He was not relegated to afterlife but played an active part in the daily life of an average person. People would pray and go to church and talk about God constantly. Faith was everything they had besides family. Can we say the same about today's Christians? Well, the church buildings which used to be packed are now often empty despite the fact that the population now is an order of magnitude larger than it was then. I can't remember the last time anyone spoke to me about God, can't even remember overhearing others' conversation about him. And again, many of my friends call themselves Christian. In most cases I was surprised to hear that because nothing about their lives suggested religiosity.
So yeah, in Europe, Gott ist tot. Even in Poland.
Now that I think of it, the word "atheistic" might not be the most accurate description. "Non-religious" or "secular" would be more suitable. It's similar to how many countries officially remain monarchies but today it means something completely else than it used to.
To tie this back to the topic of the thread, I think you'll have a hard time proving the implication "more Jesus => better society". I'm not necessarily saying that the opposite is true but even that looks more likely.
I thought about pointing that out but I didn't. It amounts to the same thing in our discussion.
I'm not gonna target anything else you said because my only purpose was to dissolve the pro-atheism points you put forward, not the ones actively against religion. That's the other guy's job.