Religion vs. Atheism in regards to recovey

Discussion in 'New to NoFap' started by Brian-storm, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. Brian-storm

    Brian-storm New Fapstronaut

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    I've been a recovering porn/sex addict for a few years now, however only recently have I reached out to this forum. I have also just attended my second SAA meeting and I find myself struggling with some sticking points.

    I am an atheist and will never change my mind on that matter. Those who do have faith in a religion or a god are completely free and able to in my opinion, I am not someone who says you should or shouldn't have faith. I struggle because lots of recovery literature and readings mention a god and a higher power and when I read/hear those lines I actively tune out. I do not want to be preached to, and I also do not want to believe that the only way that I will get through this is if I simply "give myself to god".

    I'd like to know if there are similar people to me who also struggle with this; what have you done about it? And also those who will disagree with me; what do you say to people like me in recovery and how do they respond?

    In terms of SAA, I have enjoyed getting to know other peoples stories and collectively reducing the hold that this addiction has on all of us. It's for that reason I intend to stick at it for longer to see if things change.
     
  2. palindromo

    palindromo Fapstronaut

    Welcome
    You don't need a particular faith to beat this addiction , i wish you good luck
     
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  3. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    I am. I'm sure that there a ton of others you just can't see. You can't preach atheism without arguing against religion (validity etc.) and this forum isn't a place for debate about religion.

    I'm sure there is a ton of secular content on the forum for you (be careful of pseudoscience tho)
     
    Brian-storm likes this.
  4. Religion can help with recovery, as well as in case of some people it actually makes the situation way worse. So idk... If I had the chance to live it all over again, I would go with the atheist's way cuz that road is less bumpier over time.
     
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  5. CaptainFranklin

    CaptainFranklin Fapstronaut

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    I had exactly the same experience as you with SAA. I tried for months to make it stick but I could never get it to work. I finally came to realize that addiction does not have a one-size-fits-all solution. That is, although SAA worked for some people, the fact that it made no sense to me is OK. I read Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpey. He discusses AA at length and all of its problems. His explanations make way more sense to me and that also is OK.
     
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  6. Brian-storm

    Brian-storm New Fapstronaut

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    Thanks, it's good to hear that. I will check that out as well, thanks for the tip.
     
  7. JamesTheSquirrel

    JamesTheSquirrel Fapstronaut

    I don't believe in God, wouldn't necessarily describe myself as an atheist though, just a non-believer. The thing I found when I looked into the SAA and other 12 steps approaches was that a lot of focus is put on admitting that you are powerless over your addiction and effectively need to give yourself to a higher power for things to get better.

    My philosophy is the complete opposite. I think that the power fully resides in the hands of the addict when it comes to recovery and that the best thing you can do is empower yourself to beat this addiction. Each time you feel weak or tempted remember that you are the one in control of your actions, not your addiction or anyone else.

    It's not always an easy decision to make but the more positive decisions you make the stronger you get.
     
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  8. Brian-storm

    Brian-storm New Fapstronaut

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    This.

    This right here is exactly the initial thought process and the initial reservation I had when I heard about twelve step. I wholeheartedly want to be that person who is in control, but countless slips and battles in my head have almost got me giving up that belief and now I'm contemplating what my higher power can be. Be it willpower/commitment/drive, something is missing and I slip and then start to believe the whole powerless nature of it...

    Thanks for your comment, it's interesting how many schools of thought there are when it comes to recovery. I will aim for more positive decision making.
     
    JamesTheSquirrel likes this.
  9. Well i am legally a religious person but honestly i also think myself as an atheist; i just never told my parents because i know they are gonna freak out.
    you are completely right about this part, That's what i hate about religion, you can simply put all your troubles onto someone who may or may not exist and hope everything's gonna be fine.I mean we should observe ourself and the eliminate the negative and damaging behaviors by focusing and disciplining our brain.

    That's the only way i think.

    Anyways, instead of god i believe that mother earth and universe is spiritual and when i am in a position when i need external power i close my eyes and meditate with a thought that i am absorbing power from earth to inscrese my willpower.

    Hope that helps !! Good Luck bro
     
  10. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    wdym by legally religious
     
  11. Ahmad_ismail_Abdullah

    Ahmad_ismail_Abdullah Fapstronaut

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    People believe in God for specific reasons like having a system of life to live by, and I don't want to talk to you about God, but I want to help you so you can also join an atheist nofap group.
    But I think that you're an agnostic because you don't care to talk about religion and don't want to get in conversations about it so here's a group for both


    https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?groups/atheist-and-agnostic-fapstronauts.29/forums
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  12. Masked En?gma

    Masked En?gma Fapstronaut

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    Science and Spiritual Pratices by Rupert Sheldrake and you couls change your mind about Faith. Not my problem if you considering yourself Atheist but it really help with the recovery. Since i started NoFap now i am less naive (atheist) and more spiritual i was just like you with my entire left-brain emisphere closed to new things, that does not mean that i am praying all day and go in churches but use Sokratis method work.
    I could agree in saying that religions are the opium of the people but science agnosticism is a cult too and you have faith on it with all its flaws. They also have a teology and had their own religious dress for recognize them, a white coat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  13. TheOA

    TheOA Fapstronaut

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    Regardless of religion, the only thing you need is clarity.
    The only reason one goes back to a destructive behavior is confusion.

    Religions may give believers the clarity (or belief) that a certain behavior is indeed destructive, you don't need to be religious to have that clarity or understanding.
    If you don't really see how something is harming you, and has always been harming you, and society besides, if somehow you still don't want to give up the little pleasures it may provide you, then it creates a tension in you, what you're trying to achieve isn't making sense to you, it's absurd, and no amount of willpower - as so many people want to rely on in this community - is going to get you through. Willpower is useful when you need to get out the door, a quick decision, but not sufficient long term.

    What is going to get you through a long-term goal is meaning, the "why?".
    Why do you want to be free of this particular behavior? Because if you really wanted to be free of it, obviously you would be free of it right now and never go back.
    That's why believers can have it easier, their reason is very obvious, very compelling. I would assume people who do it for ethics (trafficking, etc.), too, have a higher chance of succeeding and I would guess people who merely want to have "superpowers" would be more likely to fail, their "reason" is weaker, egocentric.

    But you don't need to be religious to seek a more "pure" (whatever that would mean for you) way of life, to see that it only harms you and society, makes you uglier in many ways, makes you focus on the wrong things, I would assume what you really want is intimacy, a relationship, love, and look what cheap alternative your conditioned brain/society gives you: watching other people on a screen having sex and merely sex.

    See how this behavior never has and is never ever going to give you what you really want, how absurd it is. See maybe the shame and feeling of being alone and pathetic you feel afterwards, every time, isn't it clear?
    Once you see the destructiveness of the behavior maybe you can envision what else you would want? Self-respect, pride and a sense of freedom in knowing that you live by your own standards? Maybe redirecting that sexual need and energy towards building something real? Living a life you enjoy or at least are at peace with?

    Hope that makes sense, wish you the best.
     
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  14. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    Woah. You should respect other's beliefs.

    What is science agnosticism?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  15. As a religious person i say that the only faith you need to have on nofap recovery, is in yourself. But not at all times, it goes as you keep recovering
     
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  16. Masked En?gma

    Masked En?gma Fapstronaut

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    I said: Not my problem if you considering yourself Atheist, honestly i'm pretty happy that you think to have find your own truths, but i like to follow Sokratis rule. As also Nietzsche said, there is nothing objective, everyone have is own truth.

    Science Agnosticis from my definition is the attempt to understand and study the universe in a materialistic way, you cannot explain the existence without "materialistic Philosophy", or, for example, an agnostic would say: "i will belive in god only if science will demonstrate it" . In part we can say that Science is their God. No spirituality, just materialism.

    Huxley was the first of the agnostics, and he also promote Darwinism (an ideology) arround the world, is a coincidence that he was a Eugenics, just like Darwi n (you can read it in the last pages of origins of the man). Also the Distopic book "brave new world" by the mephew of Huxley show us where this ideology can bring us.

    Not a problem if you want to belive on what do you belive! I am actially doing it too.
     
  17. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    whats sokratis rule
     
  18. StarRider

    StarRider Fapstronaut

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    Looking at the amount of esoteric hogwash people follow on this forum, real secular people are in a minority. Most would be better off with a well thought out system to follow instead of trying to beat "porn addiction" with tarot cards.

    You seem to be very afraid of brainwashing, however part of successfully beating addiction is applying actual brainwashing to reprogram the addictive behavior. Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking is pure brainwashing, that's why it works.

    The thing is that you don't actually have to believe in brainwashing and it still works and helps you with beating your addiction. That means you can still participate in SAA, "give yourself to god" without believing any of it and it will still work - if the 12 step program is well enough thought out. Fake it till you make it, because the end justifies the means. That's your decision, what's more important to you.
     
  19. Akeakua

    Akeakua Fapstronaut

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    These are just some rambling tips I can think of. I do think they may help. Wish you well. You got this!
    • Harnessing an awareness of triggers. This would require a good deal of knowing yourself and tracking/journaling. What time do you often have urges? In which environments do the urges come? Are you overworking? Are you lacking sleep? Is your diet filled with empty carbs? What kind of brain food diet (social media, news, etc.) are you on? Stuff like that... Then you could start to develop necessary precautions for yourself.
    • I read an article that advises people to treat pornography consumption as "junk food." It's empty and leaves us feeling flat or worse off after.
    • Don't work yourself up in a frenzy when urges come. Maybe carry around a notebook, act like you are your own detective psychologist. Write everything that just happened that may be relevant to the onset of urges you are experiencing.
    • Keep tinkering. Think back to the times of your biggest streaks? Has something changed from then? What? How can you incorporate what was lost back into your lifestyle?
    • Free-write, journal, recite positive affirmations in night or morning, or anything helpful for you.
    • Keep coming around here or similar sites with people who are going through this with you. Come around every day if possible. Give and receive updates, support, encouragement, advice.
     
  20. Masked En?gma

    Masked En?gma Fapstronaut

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    Really happy that you said Esoterism instead of occultism, but sadly i defeated Pornography thinki ng Philosophy (that actually is the better way for defeat pornography)and Quantum Physic, tarots cards are just a way that you use for belittle people, not the thesis. This is the imperative.
     

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