Religion?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by ChronicTeen, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. Andre2807

    Andre2807 Fapstronaut

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  2. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    O.K.Jethro,

    Nothing personal against you. I'll contact you on private.
     
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  3. Why would anybody be angry with me? Maybe they do no like being educated or they just envy me so much, in any case the cause of their hatred is obviously their dissatisfaction with their own lives. I tried to write some rap in order to cheer them up but these philistines only whine about their god or gods. Maybe someday you will understand my science and refute your god or gods, but sadly you are still too inexperienced for me.
     
    • Trolling. Disrespectful.
    This is typical example of Christian nihilism, is it not? They think their life is meaningless and therefore invent in their fantasy a new life. That is really hilarious and yet they accuse atheists of nihilism.
     
  4. JethroTull

    JethroTull Fapstronaut

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    No, oranges are better. Reasons reasons reasons. [insert more reasons]

    All jokes aside I freaking love apples. :) are you a fan of pie?

    Edit:
    Hey man, the same invitation goes out to you - if you would like to talk more about science, evolution, Dawkins or rap why don't we do so in a private message? Just PM me - these are all interests of mine. It's just that it appears that you're no longer welcome here and are in fact causing a lot of anguish where it needn't be.

    If you'd prefer not to, then any more you talk about we'll just assume is about serving your own ego rather than wanting to have real discussion.

    Peace!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
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  5. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    @Sun Bro,

    I really do think there is a new wave of atheism that I called (and not only me) the new atheist movement. It's those militant atheists who think they are reasoning when in reality they just spit venom out of their mouth and are only interested in mocking religions. People like Richard Dawkins belong to such a movement. But I'm talking more about all those stupid YouTube kids that follow the anti religious trend without actually debating it, rather appeal to red hearings and stuff. They also believe in some magical power of science. indeed, they see science as the truth and live by it, and abide by it. I mean.. Really delusional and unsound.

    I don't contest that many atheists do not belong to this movement and don't condone this kind of behavior.
     
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  6. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    I didn't know that @Esteban, thank you filling me in. I don't like to pay attention to the deterioration of our society. It depresses me. :(
     
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  7. bottomofthepit

    bottomofthepit Fapstronaut

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    I am heading to sleep after this, but I wanted to get my voice in the discussion.

    I am not a theist, I don't believe in what you can associate a god to; that is, a being that conscientiously created or governs reality. This is not a choice I made, I never decided to "forsake" anyone or any belief, I just never believed in a god. I went to church quite a bit as a child, as many if not most people do. I didn't gain a faith because of this, even though I went back of my own free will after many years of non-attendance. I was even baptized as a Lutheran when I was 13. This was pretty much just show, though. I was following the actions, but not because of a connection I felt or a belief I held. So this is where I am coming from.

    A lot of people tend to draw a distinct line between believer and non believer. This has always seemed unnecessary to me - all religious texts I have ever read preach equality and mutual respect for all other humans. And in most cases, people aren't presented with all of the options that humans have come up with and asked which they want to follow, if any. So a faith or belief, I feel, is less personal and more geo-social. If you are born in a certain area, you may be raised a certain faith. If you challenge this, in some areas of the world you are risking your life.

    But, if you get personal peace and solace from your belief system, and it doesn't actively promote the harm of other people, what does it matter? You were probably raised that way, and if you weren't and came to it of your own free will, it doesn't matter. Religion was made to provide the very peace and comfort that people use it to find.

    The problem I have is that religion as an organizations, so the religions themselves not the belief system or religious texts, can be used for horrible things. The Roman Catholic Church has a history of horrible acts, including but not limited to selling of indulgences, their lack of action during the Holocaust, etc. But this does not mean that every Catholic was responsible for these actions, just the select few at the top who were corrupt, cruel, etc. A lot of people take these actions of the top and use it to paint a broad stroke about people who believe that branch of religious teachings.

    Religion has been used for years to provide some kind of answer to the uncertainty of our existence; where did we come from, why are we here, and so on. It was some of the best attempts for the time, and some of the better ones we have today, but in the face of modern scientific understanding, many of the claims of the religious texts can be proven wrong. It is important to realize that the religions were created by humans, and their interpretation of reality is sometimes based off of information that is thousands of years old. The literal interpretation of the text may say that above the clouds are the stars, and above the stars are the heavens. We know now that a lot of the "information" in the books these religions are centered around is wrong; they are antiquated texts that deserves little literal interpretation. The stories they contain provide great comfort to many billions of people, though, and are some of the more beautiful stories we have ever created (personally).

    So, if I were to say something definitive, it'd be that I am very pro-religion, but my worldview is that of empirical evidence. I know that the world is not understood entirely, and filling in the gaps with claims like religious texts often do is easy but I like to try to understand reality as best as we are capable, and have no problem admitting what we don't know and may never know. I find it is more fun not having an answer to everything, it means that we have a way to go and more to discover.

    I hope that makes some sort of sense, I know it is long.

    Have a super day!
     
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  8. JethroTull

    JethroTull Fapstronaut

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    Nicely put! Thanks for expressing this. Adding to this, I do believe that religious people do need to have room to question, to critisize and improve upon their own institution. I mean that's what Jesus did, that's what Mohummad did and that's what Buddha did. These are literally the stories of each of these religious figures.

    Also you're one of the few atheists I've come in contact with who've called themselves pro-religion! Thanks! I would call myself pro-atheism because certainly for different people, having no religious belief system enables them to be better people in the world.

    Many of our recent popes have spoken plenty about interfaith dialogue. They've said its not about converting others to what we believe, but rather finding mutual ground and going from there to be the best people we can be.
     
  9. Please, if you are sensitive, don't read the remainder of this. I stand in no way against your faith in Jesus Christ.

    Christians are the biggest hypocrites in the world, and well do they know it. My mother reverted to Judaism because she was sick and tired of Christians in her experience saying or promising one thing but they always do something else. They pretend that they're full of the Holy Spirit on Sundays in the Churches, but the rest of the week... They're the biggest mess, fornicators and adulterers, gossipers, gamblers, clubbers, smokers, drinkers, porn-consumers, etc. They are commanded to abstain from sin by their pastors or leaders but then they do exactly all of the sins in the book. But how do they get around this? "Oh, but these are nominal Christians".

    But what about when you're a practising Christian? This is when they excuse themselves by saying we're all sinners (and always will be sinners who struggle with sin) and Jesus died for us (a million times over). It's something I'll never be able to understand despite being a Church-goer myself for the past several years.

    I'm sorry for inflaming religious sensibilities but here at NoFap we're trying to be honest with ourselves even though being Christians or religious or whatever we are is not enough without this community and a concerted, organised program of self-discipline and personal development.

    So that is why I disconnected and disassociate myself from Christianity, because I realise that and let's be bluntly be honest, even though I know God has brought me here, but still Jesus did not and never has ever helped me conquer sin by the power of the Holy Spirit... I need NoFap, this community, which helped me; end of story.

    I have faith in God rationally, in the collective goodness of human beings and our sincerity when we're struggling to find a way out. I don't have faith in illusions or so-called promises of salvation or magical antidotes or confession formulas for sin especially when religious people themselves are struggling with PMO and religious leaders DON'T CARE.

    If God does not answer my prayers, I wouldn't bet on it but I did ask for God to help me overcome my PMO addiction and here I am. My pastor said that I need Jesus Christ to help me break free from the bondage of sin... Yeah, right. Jesus is in heaven, doing whatever he does... while I'm on earth still struggling with my hormones for the past 19 years. Praise be to God for Alexander and the NoFap community.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2015
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  10. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Hi Shadowscolar,
    What you wrote about the most of Christians is true. I personally remain a Christian because of :
    1. Some just Christians living according to Gospel. These are for example Christians from Egypt and Syria who choose to be persecuted, killed, raped, plundered by Moslems because of their faith.
    2. I'm free fromPMO because Jesus heard my prayers.

    Your mother is now Jewish. Don't you think there are lots of Jews who don'tlive according to their faith?
    Or you think most of Jews live as saints?
     
  11. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    Before we start off on another tangent or argument, how about we get back on the subject at hand for discussion. Do most Christian religions incorporate the idea of "speaking in tongues"? I've seen some pretty crazy shit when I was younger at my church.

    People convulsing and gibbering. It scared the hell out me. Then again, I've only seen such things in exorcist movies and such. It used to get so intense at my church people were lying on the floor crying. I still love these people, but it kind of seems like it got out of hand sometimes.

    I had a really bad experience one time. I can't explain it. I don't know if I ate a bad bowl of cereal that morning or what, but I seen something I can never explain and I think it may be one of the reasons I'm agnostic and not atheist. It's not some "revelation" or anything, but it was scary nonetheless.

    One day, when I was around 7 or 8, I was going to church with my grandma. Our church was very uptight, so it was pretty much our religion was the only people welcome or family and such. I never really got involved in all of the "Holy Ghost" stuff, but this day something bothered me really bad.

    We walked into the main hall area and sat down. My grandma to my left. My uncle was the pastor, very broad man, deep voice. I notice a lot of people turn their heads towards the back door. Next thing I know, my aunt walks in with a homeless man. A bum if you will.

    They set down in a column to the left of us. My grandma looks confused. I can almost see her face perfectly. It makes me laugh. The homeless man looks sickly, disturbed maybe. At our church then, we would have people who felt sick, at some point in the service, come up and set on the banks to get prayed for and have holy water poured onto my uncles hand. He would then place it on their head and bless them with prayers.

    The homeless man got up as this started. This is where shit gets weird. I know most people won't believe me. The man sets down, slowly. Almost scared. I was just glad he might feel better at this time and thought my aunt brought him to help him. That was her intent obviously. My uncle gets the holy water and places it on his head.

    The man starts convulsion and writhing almost with pain. He starts to make weird grumbling noises and falls to the floor (wait for it) .........and starts to slither like a fucking snake. I am fully serious. He starts to move his body on the floor in a S-shape. It was mind-blowing. It scared me so and others so bad, (frankly because it was physically impossible, even to fake) that some people ran out of the hall and stood up in their seats.

    My uncle backed away slowly and just stared. O_O

    He suddenly just stops moving. No one says a word. I feel weird for about 10 seconds. Then I feel (my cousin to my right swears this too) that I feel cold air rush past me. The back door slams open out of nowhere! Everyone looks and it just bounces on its hinges and slams shut.

    All I remember after that is my aunt mentioning something about taking him to a hospital. I was really shaken up by that (and I still am) today. 13 years ago. Jeez. Well, I just wanted to share this. I love telling stories. Especially weird ones from my life.

    Thanks for reading guys.
     
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  12. There are good Christians, I can attest to this minority but the problem with these few practising Christians:
    (1) They are an outcast; treated suspiciously or not-as-normally by other Christians.
    (2) They don't get along well with other Christians in general. They have major trouble getting along with people outside of their faith.
    (3) In their zeal or short-temperateness, or passionate preaching attitude, they treat others badly (from time to time at least) for not practising.
    (4) They are too protective of their faith that means they dislike being challenged or having too many non-Christian friends or even any non-practising Christian friends at all.
    (6) If I do something that offends them, they are no longer interested in my company; they won't sit down with me any more.
    (7) Not all of them are like this but when one of them is switched on in his "preaching the Bible" all the time mood, well, who do you think can have a normal relationship with this person? The preaching-all-the-time Christians are the hardest to deal with when all they talk about is the Bible more than anything else.

    I don't find these practising Christians very "tough guy" or "Rambo" material, you know what I mean? I mean if they have the Holy Spirit in them, protecting them from sin and from the sinfulness of others, then why do they seem so socially self-isolating and so selective in their small circle of friends? They even discard regular contact and social company with members of their own families who are not practising.

    The majority of Jews that I know are either secular, especially the well-accomplished ones, or not religious. Jews don't live like saints but on the contrary they're focussed on secular, and usually quite high-level, achievements. I respect Jews more for exhibiting less immorality and being more civilised than their Christian counterparts. But are they living according to their faith? No, and they usually live according to economic progress and secular achievements, and they're protective of their reputations.


    Sunbro, that sounds like a scene of epilepsy and/or demonic possession (either of which I am not ruling out). Exorcism is a routine in some Churches where people come in and they start shaking like crazy when the pastor or priest tries to drive out a demon in the name of Jesus Christ... Until they realise the possessed man is in need of medical attention.

    I have seen a man shaking like hell on the floor and screaming, "Please get out of me! Get the f***ing hell out of me!" while the pastor and the congregants stand over him and simply swerve their hands over the man, as if they were actually physically driving out a demon, saying in unison, "In the name of Jesus Christ, in the name of the Jesus Christ, get out of him!" over and over until the man collapses and the ambulance is called.

    It was so funny and the pastor just held his forehead and stand in frozen dismay while the ambulance officers board the possessed man on the stretcher, puffing and looking very exhausted. I couldn't help but laugh out hard when the pastor continued the service and the people all pretending as if nothing serious has really happened.

    I believe the man was demonically possessed but he also suffered a medical condition which was triggered in the end of his fairly violent convulsions and shake like as if somebody else was shaking him. He was quite normal and never exhibited any mental behaviour before this possession happened. Reportedly, his possession suddenly happened after a fall-out he had with the Orthodox Coptic Church, turning to born-again/evangelical, which provoked vengeance in one of the Coptic priests who punished him by casting upon him a demonic spell to teach him a lesson.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2015
  13. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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  14. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    Have you actually read the Qu'ran ?
     
  15. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    Modern speaking in tongues as nothing biblical.
    the speaking in tongue in the Bible are regular worldly languages. (Persian, Arab). it was for unbelievers to see the miracles : undestanding people in their mother tongues. A gift.
    Modern speaking in tongues is a delusion. I even believe that in those assemblies there are demons who take control over. Just youtube speaking in tongue and demonic possession. I mean what they do is like apesh*t !
     
  16. Knight Solaire

    Knight Solaire Fapstronaut

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    I know man, like I said, I have seen it lol
     
  17. Is there anyone here from smaller, less well known religions? Most of the religious Fapstronauts seem to follow Abrahamic (Christian, Muslim or Jewish) religions or Buddhism. I was wondering if there are any members from outside these four large faiths?
     
  18. I am a Christian and I see Jesus Christ can bring healing from my addictions and over come my temptations of it. I not here to bible bash people or debate people here. I here to love and support people in their journey to overcome pornographic material s in their life.
     
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