Religion?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by ChronicTeen, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Dogma is another reality. We have religion / you can practise some religious acts like for example pilgrimages - it's a cult / . We have dogmas - sets of truths - at least for you, for example after death there is heaven. And we have faith - for example - Jesus said - pray and you you will be saved from temptation. - I trust that this is true and pray honestly every time when I'm tempted hard, and guess what - Jesus rescues me , heals me and after some minutes I'm a free healed man. This is what I call faith. faith causing woders. Dogmas and religion don't cause wonders. If it were every theologian or a religious book reader would experience wonders in their life.
     
  2. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    You're right, but if the woman didn't have faith her child wouldn't have been cured.
    Not only from P.
    Masturbation including
    Watching milions and milions of people being a slave to porn and masturbation through decades, watching their futile efforts to quit, remembering my over 30 years futile efforts to quit this...... I don't need to believe, I KNOW - my soberness is a miracle caused not by me.

    by the way, good luck
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  3. tomtom

    tomtom Fapstronaut

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    Mr. Eko, I need to ask you why you say that pagans do certain things like PMO, lying, taking drugs etc? While the word nowadays has a multiple meanings none of them justify such a use. I don't think you'd appreciate it if I gave a similar description about Christians...

    And I don't think you need faith to get rid of PMO. I masturbated regularly for 30+ years, used endless Internet porn for 15 or so years and now I consider myself pretty much clean.
     
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  4. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Hi Tomtom,

    I used the term pagans as a biblical term. In the Bible the term signifies somebody whose life is full of lying, deception, fornication.... the worshippers of their belly, murderer and so on. As a Christian I'm ashamed because vast majority of Christians from various denominations live worshipping their sexual drive, gluttony and so on.
    I didn't want to say anything about people who aren't Christians today or about non believers. I accused rather Christians and I know that I lived for many years according to my worst desires and not according to the Gospel.
    Can you write how you achieved soberness? What is your method? because for me exists no other one than through faith. For me it's a great mystery how it is possible without faith,God.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
  5. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    fair enough
    me too :)
    Well, I'd just ague you don't have proof of this. Maybe it is your will only that saved you. But I agree this is the main problem. We cannot provide evidence for miracles like that. Can we?

    You believe in luck ? I find that surprising since you are a Christian.


    My point is that according to the dictionary faith = religion.
    You know, semantic put aside I agree with you. I a=have no denomination and I believe only in a immaterial Church of Christ constitutes by the chosen ones. Is that what you believe to ?
     
  6. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    I agree so much with you. I'm sadden by the path so many so called Christians chose to take. They don't question their belief, just follow their local priest/pastor.. Sometimes I feel really bad about that. I feel bad for God.

    Anyway tomtom made a good point. How do you explain tomtom (not a Xtian) is successfully recovering from P? Is that a miracle ? yet he doesn't have faith.
     
  7. tomtom

    tomtom Fapstronaut

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  8. ....that's a statement of faith my friend ;)

    There is no way around it: we all have religion and we all have faith... it's just a matter of 'in what'
     
  9. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Now I've read Tomtom's approach but I wonder how could work this all. I don't understand how this was possible because I had been trying many ways to fight PMO with my will power and I always gave up. All I read and believe indicates that this approach cannot work but.... it seems to work... I do not understand this world....Where is the gup in my thinking?.....
    You can probably explain every miracle as a natural phenomenon. for example - bringing people back to life (Lazarus) - Was he dead indeed or only in a sort of coma? or limbs grow back (Malchus) - maybe he was only injured, it was then night, a disciple of Jesus could see more his imagination than reality, wishful thinking. or healing of incurable illnesses - have you read something about placebo effect, power of suggestion, hypnosis... or splitting a sea into two - Who knows, maybe an extraordinary strong wind or the first phase of tsunami - water then comes back.....
    Maybe all miracles can be called in question..... and what has left is faith. You believe or not..... no unanswerable proofs....
    I don't believe in luck. I only assumed that you're a non believer. I should say - God bless you, but non believers don't believe God exists.....
    One I know - it's impossible. I lost ten thousand times the battle in order to understand that my will power is strong like a matchstick. Besides of this in strong urges I always won during prayer , felt a weird inner healing and setting free. I didn't use my micro will power = null power.
    ?
    I believe in a Person.
     
  10. tomtom

    tomtom Fapstronaut

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    How is not believing something a statement of faith? Is it the same way that not playing chess is a hobby?

    Some people might call me an atheist, I prefer to call me religionless as the term atheist means so many different things to different people.
     
  11. No that's different, there is such a thing as the absence of a hobby. It's more along the lines of saying "truth does not exist".

    I suppose for starters you could try and express yourself without using words like "belief"...

    A thing as religiousness does not really exist, everybody has beliefs about what leads to happiness and what the meaning of life is.... even if your beliefs are a rejection of, or perhaps disinterest in established religions: with that you are basically stating something like the belief that they are a waste of time, or impede happiness, or some version of that...

    Even the most hard core scientist, within the domain of his own science, operates on faith: as it would be nonsensical and likely not even possible to scientifically verify everything in his field. When it comes to domain outside of hard sciences, (happiness, meaning of life etc.) there is almost no incontrovertible proof of anything... and it would take a very unusual person to not care about their own happiness / meaning I think.
     
  12. IGY

    IGY Guest

    @JackStrident belief is not the same thing as faith.
     
  13. tomtom

    tomtom Fapstronaut

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    What I originally said was "I don't believe it is necessary", i.e. I lack the belief that having (religious) faith is necessary for quitting PMO. I didn't say "I believe it is not necessary". In my opinion there is a difference between the two and there can be such a lack/absence of belief. Or perhaps it is just me losing something in translation between English and my native language (where they are different things).


    I believe being good to other people leads to happiness for me. I have done so and I have become happy myself. How does that mean I cannot be religionless? If we all have a religion what would then be mine?

    Or perhaps we should agree on a definition of a religion so the discussion has even a remote chance of getting to a conclusion.
     
  14. of course, but they have things in common
     
  15. English is not my native language either... and I don't really see a difference in those statements... hmmm

    Well my guess is your current definition is aligned with defining religion as what I would call "established" or "institutional" religions. Ironically Websters English dictionary appears to define religion as something like theism... I don't think either of those definitions is of much use... or at least they lead to rapid categorizations without any understanding

    What I am driving at is that regardless of our origin, our stated beliefs, our professed adherence or rejection to a religion: we all operate on beliefs of what leads to our happiness and what the meaning of our life is (including believing it is meaningless).

    Well feel free to fall silent at any point ;)
     
  16. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    Well, funny thing ! Isn't it obvious that I'm a believer in Christ ?
     
  17. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    No, it's not so obvious Esteban

    There are tons of people going to church but living according to the truths promoted in Tv, and other sorts of mass media. Tell me what they believe in reality?
    There are some people knowing good enough the Bible but choosing from it what they agree and the rest they reject. For example most Christians in the western culture see nothing bad in the promoted homosexuality, totally ignoring what is God's opinion - there are enough places in the Bible condemning it.
    There is not a small group of Christians who only think they are disciples of Christ. They are only supporters of Him. They don'tknow who can be called a disciple according to Jesus' words.
    Do you know Jesus' definition?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
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  18. Esteban

    Esteban Fapstronaut

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    Should we take this conversation private ?

    Let me answer. I think we really have a similar standpoint. People can claim to be Christians and think they are but are not because they don't abide by the teachings of Christ.
    It's ok to sin, ti's normal, we are human. But we must understand we need to acknowledge our sins and give it all to Christ in order to be saved.
    Furthermore, it's true that we mustn't take what we want from the Bible to make it fit our opinions and desires, it works the other way around. Which suppresses desires. Ego must be thrown up.
    Only God knows who will be saved and only He knows who are true followers of Christ. Sadly not many.
    I'd like to ask you some question about that in private if you will.
     
  19. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Well Esteban, go underground and ask me that question in private :)
     
  20. KingRecover17

    KingRecover17 Fapstronaut

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    I think Religion isn't bad at all it's just how you use it. If you use to better your life then that's a good thing
     
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