Restarting reboot.

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by DesperateHousewife7, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    I talked to him briefly last night about my concerns and how I wanted him to communicate with me about his progress. He said that it was a lot harder before and it’s getting easier now. He said he’s has urges and feels super guilty about having urges.

    So that was something.
     
  2. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    Scrolling through reddit, I came across an AskReddit thread asking “what was your reaction the first time you saw your SO naked?” And I decided to read it. All the answers were along the lines of “holy shit she’s so hot, how did I get so lucky? I wanna fuck her forever..” etc. I was immediately flooded with the memory of how excited I was for my husband to see me naked and have sex with me for the first time on our wedding night, and how nervous I was hoping that he would be pleased with my body. I was always self conscious, but I looked good by then. Instead, I got no reaction, rarely ever any sex or interest in it, and boner problems from my 19 year old husband. I realize now that I was married unknowingly to a PA and that the reaction and special moment I waited for on my wedding night was stolen from me and replaced with 7 long years of my husband only wanting PORN instead. I remembered all the times in those years that I tried so hard to make him show any interest in me and my body. I remembered slowly giving up on lingerie or even initiating sex because the rejection hurt so bad. I burst out in tears tonight as I read that thread. It hurts so bad. So bad. It’s been 4 months since I’ve found out and it doesn’t hurt any less. This is hell. Why me?
     
  3. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. I am a confident woman NOW and I understand that his PA had nothing to do with my looks. I wish I had this knowledge and these affirmations back when I was a 19 year old girl being rejected by her husband every night. I guess this post is mostly about grieving innocence, good intentions, who I once was, sorrow for that girl and everything she went through. I am just grieving the life I thought I was getting and fighting tooth and nail never to accept a life of porn. I can’t do it. God, sometimes I wish I never would have talked him into having sex with me because then we wouldn’t have had our kids and then I wouldn’t feel so guilty about leaving.
     
  4. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you Ghost. Some days it feels like I’m going through all 5 stages in one. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy. Especially not at such a young age.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  5. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    So, and just to backtrack a little, when we attempted reboot 1- I found that he’d still been MO throughout that time so it didn’t work.

    Yesterday, (we are 17 days in to reboot 2 which has been defined and agreed upon by both parties as a hard reboot) I asked him about how he’s been doing with being PMO free. He said still no porn, and no masturbation. BUT... he said he occasionally “touches it a little bit for a while and then stops before it becomes masturbation...” hmmmm.
    So, I am glad that he opened up to me about that but I’m a little skeptical and concerned because A) I don’t know if he’s telling the truth about it only being “partial” stimulation and B) any kind of self- stimulation at all is probably not good for what we are trying to accomplish here, right? And I’m worried about that because I REALLY want him to succeed. I’ve noticed lately he’s been almost like, taking mental pictures here and there. For example, the night before I asked him about this, when he came to the bedroom to say goodnight and hug and kiss me, he pushed me onto the bed and lifted my legs up to my shoulders and kind of just looked over all my body in that position and then stopped and said goodnight and left. I also caught him taking a photo of me at the gym while he was spotting my squats the other week. I asked him about it and he said he just thought I looked good so he took the picture for no reason. So, little things like that, I’ve been noticing and I’m concerned because it doesn’t feel right.

    Any thoughts?
     
  6. I think that many positions and the general attitude that you and other women in this section of the forum often hold are completely misguided. The guys who occasionally come to comment are mostly nodding to that stuff so I'll present a different view. I'll address things mentioned in other journals too - hope you'll forgive me the thread hijack.
    • Time required to elapse before things start working is highly variable. If you read through the success stories, you'll see quantities ranging between two weeks and two years. Ergo, the fact that he still has ED three months later doesn't mean he's cheated (not that he hasn't either, of course). 90 days is a completely arbitrary time block.
    • The implication, he can't stop => he doesn't care about you, is false. Go ahead and ask smokers, why do they keep inhaling cigarette smoke when they must know they're risking cancer. Even a strong motivation like life or relationship preservation does not guarantee that the addict will successfully change his habits.
    • The tactics that you chicks try to fix this issue with are just bad.
      • Therapy: sitting down and talking about issues is about as appealing as colonoscopy. There is a subconscious belief in a guy's brain that no conflict is resolved until someone's got punched in the face - which in this case is obviously not possible.
      • Boundaries: I'm guessing most guys don't find the picture of being romantically connected with their mothers very appealing. Given that, I can't believe that you would consider it to be a good idea to set milestones that your little boy has to clear or even spy on him to see how he's doing. If this were me I'd probably explode.
      • Crying and other types of passive-aggressive behavior. Whether sincere or not, they're annoying; especially since the dude probably already feels like a complete peace of shit for not being able to perform.

    Obviously I can't claim to be the speaker of all men but I think that to some extent, these things apply to every one of us.

    You see that I've only shot down ideas without mentioning any solution. Let's come up with one. I think ultimatums can sort of work - that's how my aunt got uncle to stop drinking - but that's only one chance to succeed, which is risky. No - the way to forget a woman (women), whether a real or virtual one, is another woman. Seduce him. The easiest time I've had not fapping was after making out with my highschool crush on a reunion party - I didn't even think of watching porn two months later because I was obsessing about her instead.

    If you think all this should not be necessary and the prince should do everything his princess wants automatically, fair enough. But in that case you might want to look for another one since nothing's gonna change without a catalyst.
     
  7. Ah, the thought leader himself. Since you're accusing me of trolling, I have to respond. Fun? Chewed up? I don't need any more proof than what you've just written to understand that this place is an echo chamber. I'll tell you what I see - your approach is a disaster. The track record is so bad it could hardly be worse.

    It's a shame you decided to try to belittle me instead of providing a serious answer. I have written in honesty what I think (yes, "I think" because every post is an opinion by default - not sure what that was about) - and I think it's plausible to assume that others (including limp husbands and boyfriends) think the same way. That's all
     
  8. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    So you believe it is the partner's responsibility to be sexy enough to keep her man away from other women.

    Is this also your philosophy on how men should keep their women away from other men?

    What responsibility do you lay at the feet of the addict for his own behavior?
     
  9. Well, "responsibility" in any situation is just a function of motivation of the stakeholders. I've already said that:

    It is not up to me to say whether or not is that a good or a bad thing, you have to know what you want. If just the idea of you taking an active part in his attraction to you is unacceptable to the point of rather being with someone else, that's fine. I'm not describing any "philosophy" of mine, I'm describing the inner physics of myself and what I think can be said about men in general.
     
  10. Now I see where your signature comes from; your post would get deleted if I reported it. For the second time now, you have decided to insult me and assert your superiority instead of saying anything of substance. I think it proves that you're more interested in becoming some sort of guru than figuring out a working solution and you should be ashamed of yourself. You said that I'm a typical addict; my goal was to describe what's happening on the opposite side of the relationship because it doesn't seem like nobody here has any idea. Therefore, I accept your inadvertent endorsement. I think I've expended enough energy at this point to make myself clear. Instead of waging jihad I'll let this sit and hope chicks and dudes alike can derive benefit from my blasphemous perspective. Good luck.
     
  11. I'm not interested in your condescending remarks, please keep them to yourself. Thank you.

    I apologize for this pathetic exchange; I should have ignored him right from the beginning, my bad. I knew some people can't stand it when someone else has a different position but this is a whole another level. He's written all that and still not a word concerning my original post?! Looks like I've kicked the hornet's nest.
     
  12. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    This is just plain insulting and unhealthy.

    First, we are not "chicks" so please drop the sexist BS.

    Second, therapy works. As someone who has studied psychology and plans to be a therapist one day, I can tell you that my husband would be nowhere without me and the therapy he has gone through. I have helped him connect the dots, understand where his addiction stemmed from, and now he understands what his triggers are. You don't get that knowledge without therapy and reflection.

    Boundaries are healthy, especially when with an addictive, asshole, lying, gaslighting (aka psychological abuse mainly used by psychopaths), verbal/physical anger, etc.

    In general: As a woman, we tend to be smaller than the men we are with. Also, the men we are with might very well be physically stronger. We can try to stand up for ourselves, ask our husbands to be faithful, but when we are met with verbal/psychological/physical/emotional abuse I very well think boundaries are necessary. That is not being a mom. It's being a human being.

    Don't you want to be respected? That's what boundaries are, it's stating your comfort zone, and wanting them to be respected. There is nothing mothering about it. Also, as to spying, we are driven to extremes from the lying/gaslighting/abuse. There is nothing worse than being gaslit (and that comes from someone who has been through some real bad stuff). If someone is going to try to make you question your reality and damage your mind, I think that is the vilest thing, and addicts are pros at abusing those around them to get away with their behavior. So spying is essential in some cases for the SO to know that they DO know what is really happening (it is a way to take back the power that the PA has stolen), and it also allows the SO to stand up to the abusive addict and call the addict on their BS. The addict, backed into a corner, often lashes out (verbally or physically depending on the person), and that can be hurtful/damaging/further traumatizing to the SO. Addicts are not the good guys here (they also are not villains, but they did make choices that hurt their partner, at times knowingly). You would probably explode because you'd finally be called on your BS and maybe you want to be in your addiction and have no one question you. Just hopefully you are single and are not subjecting another human being to this torture.

    Crying is NOT passive aggressive. It's expression of real significant pain. Your attitude towards women is sexist, and objectifying, as if a woman is supposed to fucking just be an object that listens to you, caters to your every whim, and allows abuse. Your "input" on this thread is damaging and I think it would be best to take space from this section until you're out of the fog and can see women as equal human beings.

    I am not trying to be mean but I am calling what I see, and we don't want this thread to be full of disrespect. We are all here to help an SO with the damage the PA did. Addicts need accountability to get better.
     
  13. Thanks for actually engaging in a conversation instead of throwing random hominems (except the part where you wished for me to remain single). I'm sorry if my language is inappropriate - I've learned English mostly through the Internet and lack the nuance of native speakers.

    You've put the ideas into words nicely but I cannot help it - it's incredibly emasculating to be supervised and told what to do. Accepting that and keeping the balls intact at the same time just doesn't seem possible. This gestapo crap you're advocating must be counter-productive. I just can't see anyone being pushed to get their shit together by that.

    I think it would be better to show some respect for both sides and choose one of the following:
    1. Accept the other person and try to improve the relationship by increasing effort on your part
    2. Decide he's not deserving of you and make him pack his bags

    Does that make me sexist?
     
  14. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    Idk where you're from, but in USA, men and women are equal (or supposed to be). Emasculating.... Is it emasculating for a woman to ask to be respected? I.e. don't cheat on me, verbally abuse me, physically abuse me, or tell me what I have to do when I've been faithful.

    Emasculation... it's an idea I struggle with. I am sorry but if an addict chooses to act like a child that disrespects everyone in sight, throwing temper tantrums, I think that behavior alone is doing the emasculating... not the individual asking for respect.

    And Gestapo crap I'm advocating.... hmmmm... Okay. I am not advocating dictatorship, but rather equality. But here is the catch. The addict took all the power and made him and his partner inequals by taking power, abusing, and pushing their partner away, and trying to get their partner to submit. Now, to regain the balance there will be inequality in "power" for a while. Remember the addict is the one who lied/abused/ and hurt their partner (knowingly for some). The addict loses all power because they abused it. The SO because the PA has tortured/abused/traumatized their SO gets to set boundaries and consequences to create Safety. PA's, actively in addiction, are not safe -emotionally, psychologically, physically, verbally, and possibly financially.

    Not all PA/SO relationships have abuse in them, but addicts tend to be abusive in one manner or the other. So, abusers have to lose that abusive power, because they are hurting others (and themselves as well). So to get the addict to be healthy they need to submit in order to heal. Like the 12-steps you submit that you are powerless over your addiction and need outside help.

    Here is the thing you're missing.... us SO's have done EVERYTHING to make the relationship work (pre and post DDay). We tried addressing these issues head on before knowing, but the addict abused/gaslit until we got quiet. Then we find out, and we work our asses off to learn about addiction, support our partner's getting healthy, but rememebr... they are addicts and are probably not really wanting to be healthy. Once the fog lifts, the addicts then have a choice. Face the damage, own it, submit, get healthy, and rebuild life (with your SO).... or run away, cause more harm, and ultimately end up alone and probably hating the avoidance tactics used because now they are alone with no support having to face the tough reality of Their Inactions.

    It's not on SO's to do anything. We did not create this mess. The PA is 100% responsible for their addiction and actions/inactions. SO's merely were tricked/abused into this horrible relationship and now because they love the PA they try, but it won't work unless the PA also tries and gets healthy.

    Not deserving and pack bags..... Okay, well, we SO's have talked many times about boundaries and consequences. And some of our consequences are kicking the addict out. The "not deserving" I have issue with that wording because we aren't wanting to shame the addict, and we don't want them to feel unloveable (often they do feel unlovable and that's part of their addiction), so it's not that it's about deserving but rather the addict is not healthy enough to be in a relationship.

    There is automatically an imbalance when we are talking about mainly healthy individuals (SO's) and extremely unhealthy indiviudals (PA's). Until both are healthy there will be an imbalance.
     
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  15. Just to take off the 'sexist' label that's on my forehead again: I live in an egalitarian society and agree 100% with its principles.

    I've never thought of PA as being anything more than a self-destructive habit before; it has never occurred to me that the negative effects of use can go beyond loss of time and energy*. It seems that you're suggesting it's a mental illness which is pretty fucking terrifying. Interesting. Thanks for writing that.

    EDIT: * and ED :/
     
  16. True-Self

    True-Self Fapstronaut

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    if you're serious about this part, well done! Your command of English is impressive. I would have assumed you were a native speaker.
     
  17. The lengths to which you go to make me look like a bigot and/or idiot are truly astounding. But at least you're engaging my words and I don't think we can get anywhere better than that!
    Of course you know what I meant by that.
    I highly doubt that you would if the ultimatum included the continuation of your marriage.
    I've explicitly said that if that's a requirement, she shouldn't be with the guy anymore.
    I've mostly thought about me and her spending quality time together, not about fucking her.
    While you've been super mature, Mr 57-year-old :emoji_smile:
    U2

    P.S. here's a bunch of words you've spelled wrong
     
  18. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    I don’t know why I let what you said offend or insult me . You HAVE to have thick skin to be in ANY group forums , never mind a forum about porn addiction and the trauma that comes from it . I’m not a “chick” I’m a wife of 18 years and a mother for 20 . I guess the experts on porn addiction are totally of base when they HIGHLY recommend accountability software , accountability partners and therapy . Without 2 out of those 3 I know for sure I would no longer be married to him . I’m sure some come on to hear us SO speak and are horrified to think of being “ mothered “ but I can def tell you that MANY PA have stated on here and through PM , that they NEVER even thought to look at the other side of the coin . Then there are those , like you that choose to not read with empathy and throw daggers , wether they are harsh or not , we take em as such . I’m sorry that you feel the way you do . But I go on the dark side of the forum to where they guy relapses every other fuckkng day and just “ doesn’t know why “ , that’s not work , that’s not good enough . BUT ILL NEVER SAY THAT BECAUSE IM NOT IN THEIR SHOES FIGHTING THAT SIDE OF THE BATTLE . SO , unless you actually have researched porn addiction and betrayal trauma as much as most SO have , you don’t have a right to call any of us “chicks” or accuse us of mothering , cuz god knows I wanted nothing more than to stop mothering my man child when he kept putting his hand in the cookie jar . Thank god he doesn’t have the stance that you do ( even if your stance was 100 % true , I thank god my husband WOKE THE EFF UP . :)
     
  19. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    You’re right about the time frame thing, I know there’s isn’t any set time frame. It’s kind of like when you order something online and it says it’s coming in 7-14 business days- I was hoping for 7 but it’s looking like it’s gonna be 14.

    The tactics used to try and fix the problem are tactics recommended by the professionals. Therapy and boundaries (which basically ARE ultimatums if done correctly) are recommended by professionals because they work.

    I can tell you for sure what does not work, at all, ever. “Just seduce him”. I know that for a fact because that’s what I’ve attempted to do for the last SEVEN years. Starting from saving myself as a virgin just for him to enjoy at 19 years old when he married me, and on from there in the form of lingerie, role play outfits, constantly asking him what he’s into or trying to find out myself what he’s into so that I can try it for him, always giving him a BJ before sex, always keeping myself perfectly made up, climbing into bed and trying to touch him, massage him, fondle his genitals, kiss his neck and ears (he said it felt annoying), pressing my naked butt up against his crotch (he shoved the blanket between us) and after a few years when that seduction didn’t seem to be working, I moved to more drastic measures. I started a strict diet and lost any excess fat I may have possibly had, I started exercising 5 days a week until I reached “fitness” level body fat, and then I went and had my body cut into and spent weeks healing in pain just so I could have 32DDD breasts for him. I got spray tans every other week, nails done, makeup done, hair done, always wore a sundress at home for him, etc etc. and guess what? Nope. Nothing changed. None of it worked. You know why? Because even if he did move on to me from porn, it would just be a temporary distraction and substitute for the porn. So, I understand and appreciate the advice and I understand that you probably assume I’m not trying to be sexy for my husband but I’ve tried until I was blue in the face. I had every other man checking me out and hitting on me, even some women propositioning me and complimenting me- but not my husband. Because it has nothing to do with me.

    In terms of mothering them, that’s the last thing I wanna have to worry about. I have children to mother. This is the LAST thing I want to deal with or have anything to do with but my husband CHOSE to put me in a situation where now I have to worry about this stupid bullshit because I have to plan for my future. It’s either going to be married to him as a healthy man or it’s gonna be divorced from an addict. And if it’s emasculating to be monitored, I understand that but in my opinion- I think it’s MOST emasculating to have a beautiful wife who always wants sex, and to shoot her down every day because you’d rather jerk off to porn, don’t you think? I sure do.

    Anyway, maybe that will give you a little bit of insight to how some of this works.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
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  20. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you, Ghost. I just know how damaging it is to allow any woman to believe that her man is cheating in any way, shape or form, because of her not being enough. It isn’t true, and it doesn’t resolve the problem. All it does is break her self confidence, and amplify the issues. I don’t want any woman thinking there was anything she could have done differently to prevent her man’s porn addiction/ cheating.
     
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