Romance and Appreciation

I think this is about love languages. If I understood correctly, you do thank her verbally but since words of affirmation aren't her love language, acts of service apparently are, she doesn't feel loved. Both of you, not just you, need to think about how to love each other the way that that person feels love. You can take the quiz here.

http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/

Secondly, with her just becoming a SAHM, I can totally relate to her. I did that in mid-March. Though I wanted to do it, I have found it to be much harder than I anticipated. And I have worked through quite a few trigger issues in counseling. Basically the way I was raised, with an old fashioned household, dad earns money and mom does everything else, is making me feel like I have to take it all on myself but then also feeling upset and resentful when I realize I need more help than I thought I did. (Like there's something wrong with me, not being able to do it all.) It's a big transition and it can be very difficult.

I also highly recommend you two start using FANOS. That has helped my husband and I communicate so much better! https://www.NoFap.com/forum/index.php?threads/have-you-heard-of-fanos.67103/

Personally, I don't think this is true. But I also know it depends on her upbringing and also her definition of "romance." What is your definition and what is hers? It will be helpful to both of you to know that. That love language quiz may help a lot in this area.

You should not be embarrassed at all. Society tells boys they can't be emotional, they should fight instead of use their words, that they should be tough and bottle things up, ect., ect., and then we expect them to know how to be loving and sensitive as husbands. Throw a PMO addiction in there, which numbs emotions, damages relationships and makes it difficult for addicts to communicate their true feelings, and you have a pretty good recipe for struggles.

I think it's great that you are asking questions about this and that you want to break the pattern of upsets and then not fixing anything. I do think the love languages quiz will help a lot. You need to know what would make HER feel loved. For some women, that's a dinner out away from the kids, for others it's you washing the dishes without being asked. I also recommend the book Attached: the new science of adult attachment and how it can help you find and keep love.

Plus, there's also this past thread. https://www.NoFap.com/forum/index.php?threads/lingerie-equivalent-for-husbands.70034/

 

To be clear, I don't think only the man is responsible for romance.

 

I am sure you are a romantic man. However, your definition of romance most likely differs from that of your SO. Your "acts of romance" may truly be perceived as romantic by most women on Earth. However, if your SO does not perceive them as such, I believe you have two options:

1. You may help her realize that your actions are truly romantic
2. You may cater your actions to suit her definition of romance.

Talk with her regarding how it made you feel when she said she gave up on you ever being romantic in the relationship. Explain to her that you love her and you are willing to change (if in fact, you indeed are willing to change ...). Ask her what is the most romantic gesture that any man could do for her that would make her melt. This issue is difficult to tackle because you don't want to ask her to write down every romantic gesture on a piece of paper, so that you may perform them one by one and check them off as if they constitute a "to-do list." The thought of that is a total mood-killer.

Does she have any close girlfriends? You may consider asking one of them for advice, given that she may have told them what type of romance she is looking for. If you have young children, her perception of your lack of romance may be due to her stress. She may be bored and looking for a change in routine (i.e. cooking for her one night may be beneficial). There is no way to satisfy her unless you tackle the root of your current issue - differing expectations regarding the essence of romance. Good luck, my friend.

 

This would totally work for me. But some don't like being asked.

This is a great idea!!

Personally, I think the word romance is vague. It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I think communication is so important here. Both partners need to know what the word means to each other and how each can adjust a bit on making sure that what they are doing is perceived as romantic to their partner.

This gives me an idea for a post.

 

Ok, I'm pretty sure if we asked your wife her description of her day would be much different than this. Until a person has done it all day, every day, for hours and hours on end, they can not comprehend how exhausting it is to be a SAHM. Even if she is on the couch she isn't "relaxing." She's refereeing fights, wiping noses, fetching snacks, answering why, battling the urge to scream in frustration after answering why for the millionth time or asking a child repeatedly not to pick their nose, ect., ect. She's also taking "a break" from preparing multiple meals, trying to keep up with dishes and laundry, and a million other things. (But it's not a real break if the kids are in the room, see below.)

Before I became a SAHM I had unrealistic ideas about what I would be able to accomplish. The house would be clean (it's not), I'd do lots of baking and cooking from scratch (not so much) and I'd do all kinds of "working with our [kid] to teach [her] something," (yeah, that's rare). I've had to adjust my expectations. There is just absolutely no way that one person can do it all. Keeping up with the cleaning, cooking and constant needs/wants of a little one or little ones (we have one toddler) is so draining. Some sacrifices have to be made. For me, I realized I wanted to spend time with my child more than I wanted a perfectly clean house. So I let some things go or my husband helps me (by doing it or hanging with the little one while I do). I try to take her somewhere most days, like the library or the park. (But, again, I have one. She needs outside socialization more than a sibling group would.) One day her lunch was deli meat and grapes. The same stuff she rejected for breakfast. Sometimes it's all you can handle.

You can't compare what you do to what she does. Just. Don't. Do. It. Do you have breaks periodically while you work in your office? Do you check the news, facebook, nofap? Is it sometimes nice to close your door and leave the screaming, running kiddos to your wife?

Now, speaking of breaks. What kind of breaks does she get? Do you take over with the kids so she can ... go grocery shopping and/or clean? Guess what? That's not a real break. How often does she get to go somewhere just to do something for herself? How often does she get to spend time with a friend? (Since you just moved, maybe call them on the phone?) When was the last night you two hired a babysitter so you could have a date night? Or a date overnight? And, yes, you need some breaks too. But, speaking from experience, it's going to be easier for her to be generous with you getting an evening off if you periodically tell her, OK, love, I've got supper and bedtime. See you later. Have fun.

Now, it could be possible I'm wrong. She may be actually neglecting the kids, doing nothing around the house and binge watching TV. Except you said this:

She is expressing that she doesn't feel you appreciate what she does. And, in fact, your attitude in the first paragraph I quoted, shows you actually don't. Or maybe you do, but you are holding back on showing it to her because you feel she doesn't appreciate what you do? Dude, just start showing her you appreciate what she does. You already know what you are doing isn't right.

Plus, with what you describe, she could be depressed or just struggling with the new situation. You guys recently moved. She transitioned into being a SAHM. That's never easy. Perhaps the move took you far from friends and/or a support system? Either way, I honestly think you need to take a careful and honest assessment of your idea that she has "all the time in the world" and give her some REAL breaks.

Side note: I don't know what age your kids are, but play is actually the best way for kids to learn. Much better than sitting down and doing "school type learning."
See: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/opinion/sunday/let-the-kids-learn-through-play.html?_r=0
http://www.naeyc.org/play

 

YES. Now that my husband is able to do this, things are SO much better!!

After I posted this I thought of quite a few more things I wish I had added. But I'll just add this one more. A lot of times people (me included) think, oh my spouse isn't doing as much as me, and on the other side of the room, the spouse is thinking, oh my spouse doesn't do as much as I do. NOBODY wins at that game. Your perception of what you do is very likely inflated and your perception of what she does certainly sounds like it's underinflated. (Not sure that's the right word but I can't think of a better one.)

I suggest you sit down and talk with her candidly about this. Ask her what she needs and talk to her about her needs. Thank her for what she does and express that you need to hear thanks from her for what you do. (Seriously, FANOS is great for this, and you don't even have to ask for it. Just do FANOS and it's right there. Try making it a regular part of your routine.) https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/have-you-heard-of-fanos.67103/

You are right that weekly date nights just aren't possible. But it is possible to, once a week or every couple of weeks, take over bedtime or an afternoon and let her have a long bath or to leave the house for several hours. And, ideally, you should get some time away too.

Here's what I finally realized. I'm in the house or at least with the kid all the time. All. The. Time. Then my husband comes home from work, he misses both of us, and he wants to have family fun. Go to the park. Swim. Ect. I want time alone with him or time alone. I need it! Yes, we still do family fun stuff, but it's very important to realize, that's not a break for her. It's the same of what she does all the freaking time. I'm a better mom and wife when I can get some time away. (And sometimes that's once a week, sometimes more, sometimes less.)

OK, that was more than one thing.

Bravo to you for your realizations and good luck in putting them into effect!!!

 

This post -- SO GREAT. Through the whole thing I'm saying to myself, "Yessss EXACTLY yes. YES!" I wanted to react with rage at his comparison of a man vs sahm day. You calmly explained. Thank you for that. 'Cause DUDE IT IS SO HARD. And no matter how hard it is, the next day you get up and all your hard work was for nothing and everything is a mess and sticky and you fight with your kids over the same stupid stuff all over again until you don't remember who you are anymore and you just want the world to stop so you can get off.

Well done.

 

Thank you. I'm honestly not sure why I didn't go into a rage. As I worked on my answer to the whole SAHM thing, I did start to get more upset thinking of a mom with three kiddos having "all the time in the world." But I'd already written most of my post and I was able to keep it out of my comments. Maybe it's because I only started staying home in March (kid is now coming up on three) and I've been in the process of adjusting my own ideals about how much I can handle on my own and how to take a real break. I'm fortunate that @fuckyouporn is great about not expecting me to do it all. I'm the one that tends to take my "breaks" grocery shopping or to clean. But I had a breakthrough recently and I'm doing better about it now.

 

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Was that a pun? Because I'm a SAHD and I have been frustrated by all of these things and I've wanted to just "get off" so. many. times.

Bravo, whether intended or not, this act of clever wordplay makes me happy.

 

@fupornwife was pretty eloquent, but I just might add this little thought. Think about how much child care costs, and how much a cook would cost, and how much it costs to get someone else to scrub your crap out of your toilet. Then consider how difficult it would be to do all of this simultaneously, and how much that would cost. That's what your wife does. Is it any surprise that it's not all perfectly clean and you're eating from a box or the freezer sometimes? Then consider how you would feel if you never left work, if you were always on call even through the night, and how "vacations" are just a time where you do the same thing you always do, but in an exotic location where you have no access to your normal tools, and everyone is in each other's faces. That's Stay At Home Parenting. Normally I say "buck up, buttercup" to the complainers, but my wife does acknowledge how hard it is so that's nice.

 

My intent was not to upset you. The thing is, if you hadn't written how you really feel about your wife, I wouldn't have been able to counter those thoughts from my perspective. And that wouldn't have helped you make the realizations you did.

Yes, the thought that a SAHM has "all the time in the world" is offensive to those of us that stay home. But I think, on some level, you knew that, because you said you couldn't talk to your wife about it. In the end, @WifeInTheDark and I got to speak our piece and you got to learn from it. Win, win!

 

Yesss! Nice to have a stay at home dad chime in.

That or, "vacations" are spending time with family, with no access to your normal tools and your mother or your MIL is in your face, along with everybody else.

 

Despite a sex life that's a bit rocky at times, NO. PUN NOT INTENDED. I actually worried for a moment when I typed it that it might be seen as a pun. Ugh. Being a stay at home mom is exhausting slave labor which is never complete and is generally disregarded as unimportant and unappreciated....especially when the issue of money comes up because you aren't contributing to the relationship financially. It's like a constant merry-go-round that never stops. You're always tired. Frustrated. Busy. And you can bet that every third thing you touch will be sticky, even when your kids are in school all day. I'm unclear on the science behind it but know it to be true.

Also, I didn't mean to frighten the poor guy with my 'rage' comment. Glad everything got to be expressed in an honest way and we all got to contribute a bit of our own perspective. I have a LOT of health issues which require a lot of downtime and resting between activities and so being perceived as 'lazy' or with all the time in the world hits a particular nerve with me. I am blessed to be in a position to be a sahm but I can't physically contribute in the work force anymore and don't make $$$ for my contributions.

Also, I'm currently on a 'vacation' with a whole house of in laws and have had headaches and intense muscle spasms through a lot of it so really feeling those vacation comments too. I'm so lucky to have a husband who cooks! But I see the judgement in my MIL's eyes.

 

Ugh. I'm sorry. That's awful.