Sexless Relationship anyone?

Thank you, @FPDoc, for your response. It might be that I do have a relatively high level of control over my desires, or it might just be weakness, timidity, and a very low level of assertiveness with regard to my wife. I'm not yet certain how I truly measure on each of those scales.

Wow, I had not heard of the concepts of "codependency" (or "dependent personality disorder") before. Kinda scary, as it does indeed sound that it might -- at least superficially -- apply to my situation!

My gut reaction to your question regarding my wife's witholding of love and sex was to answer "yes, obviously." But under the sudden realization that my marriage to an abusive spouse now "threatens" to get me labeled as formally suffering from a "personality disorder" , I am suddenly not so sure how accurate it is to say that "control" is truly her intention, or what actually results on my side:

• She would probably say that her behavior doesn't reflect any desire on her part to control me. On the contrary, she claims that she no longer wants to have anything to do with me, and instead wants to totally separate herself from me.
  
  
• From my side as well, I am not sure how accurate it is to say that she successfully "controls" me. Although for my own reasons -- both spiritual, emotional, and practical -- I have voluntarily agreed, for now. to silently endure her negative behavior, I nevertheless pride myself and take comfort in the fact that she has no control over my "inner me" or my sense of self-worth and moral-rightness.

I too am very confused as to what my next steps should be. In fact, until recently I felt that i barely had anyone that I can talk to, but maybe here on NoFap.com I'll be able to find some direction. (Because I refuse to publicly or even privately slander or bad-mouth her, I have severely self-censored what I am willing to tell my own family, and because of this they do not really understand me. My [very wise!] Rabbi lately has begun to understand the complexity of my situation, but does not really have the time or tools to fully help me. And I have been hesitant to seek professional help because of a lack of funds and also because I do not know whom specifically I should turn to.)

Your other questions are excellent questions:

• Am I happy? As for almost all questions that I am asked, I am not sure that I can give a simple answer to this one. I am obviously suffering intensely, which does not strengthen my happiness. But does that mean that I am overall unhappy? I don't know. There are certainly other things in life that I am often happy about. I'd say that overall my mood would probably be best described as serious, solemn, or even somber. But not necessarily sad.
  
  
• As for "true happiness" and "2nd-best option," I've got a pretty good notion of how those might look. But the really interesting questions are your next ones: what would I be willing to give up, or what price I'd be willing to pay, to find these? And for these, I don't really have answers yet. Have not found the time, emotional energy or courage to address these yet, because I'm currently too occupied with my hurt and have become somewhat "brain-dead."

I truly appreciate your valuable inputs. Thank you!

 

Oh, @FPDoc: I forgot to add perhaps the most important evidence supporting my ability to make "independent" decisions and resist her apparent efforts to "control" me: and that is my own decision and willingness to give up the pleasures of PMO, despite her witholding of love and sex, and despite the fact that over the past 4+ years she has even told me to "go take care of myself," which at first I accepted as my moral and religious "license" to engage in PMO (as if it were her's to give!).

The easy path would have been to continue to indeed allow her to control my moral decision-making by continuing to use her "license" and the "no-other-choice" that she has effectively tried to force upon me. And thus I'd like to think that my independent decision to choose abstinence, at the price of pleasure-deprivation, counts for something, no?

 

Well we finally had sex after almost a year but it's been over a month again. I have began masturbating again... Maybe once a week or so but I am not using porn. I do not feel the compulsion that I did prior to my 120'or so days. I am genuinely getting horny again and it is great. I'm not saying that I should masturbate now. I likely shouldn't, and I am going to be careful not to overdo it (I read that every 8 days is a healthy amount) and I will not use porn again (unless maybe for some fun with a partner?). But, I mostly want to share that holding out is SOOOO worth it. I see masturbation in a much healthier light now. I don't do it out of bordom or out of compulsion. I do it when I genuinely feel the need for release. I tell myself if I can't do it without porn, I really don't need it that badly. There are times when it crosses my mind, but not like before. I am not totally healed but the improvement is unbelievable. I have hope now that it is possible for me to have a fun, fulfilling sex life (once I have a willing partner). So if you are just starting out, take my word for it.... Keep going. It will be worth it!

 

Sorry that you are going through this @Yesodi. No real advice from, but wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you.

 

Wow! Beautifully put. I have a feeling you're in that church so they can become lgbt friendly, and to let people know that every gay person isn't about sex.

You're doing something (loving him despite having him meet your sexual needs; something many in the church wouldn't be able to achieve). We could all learn a thing or two from you.

God bless you, man!

 

I'm new to this thread but I have SOME IDEAS:

-I haven't done a lot of work with people in this area and we never had this issue between us, but I'll throw this out here and hope for the best. Now, I am sure not all of these will work for every situation, so proceed at your own risk:

1) For the Married Men with open lines of communication: I had a realization some time ago that when we stand at the altar and 'for better or worse, in sickness and in health,' we usually think in terms of "I will do my best to take care of you if you get sick."

What if it's also, "I will do my best to take care of you when I get sick." You could, carefully, run this thought by your wife to get her to open up to the idea of sex with you again… then both of you could work on making it enjoyable for both partners.

2) For men with Menopausal Women: I heard a stat a long time ago… At menopause, 20% of menopausal women have an increase in libido, 20% have a decrease, and 60% stay the same.

So for the 60%, I think there are lots of women whose libido decreases, not for physiological reasons, but for relationship ones. And almost nothing can take the wind out of her libido's sails like porn, so consistently let her know how much you are being proactive about that issue in your own life.

3) For men with Women with Low Libidos: If she's given you the go ahead to pmo, and you want sex with her instead, lher know that. Then on days when she's particularly striking, let her know that, as well. Give a big compliment and let her know you will be thinking about her later on during your session.

-If the issue of her wanting you to pmo instead of being together is brought up, just let her know it pales in comparison to being with her.

-For me and many women, the biggest aphrodisiac is knowing my man desires me… really desires ME. Nothing aligns our moods more quickly than that!!!

-When she does want to have sex with you, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE SHE'S HAVING A GOOD TIME. I wouldn't want to have sex with my husband anymore if I just felt he was masturbating into me!

4) For Women who get turned down by your significant other: Contact me in a conversation. I'd write it out here, but it could trigger someone.

5) For those whose SO has physical issues: This depends on the physical limitation. (Just know I really empathize with those of you who are trying to stay sexually dedicated to her alone. My heart goes out to you noble men! Just know you have a better chance sexually reconnecting with your SO if you remain in this mode, because your nobility is a much bigger turn on than what she will see as somewhat-understandable infidelity, if you turn to porn.) Since physical issues vary case by case, keep reading.

6) For All: Ask if you can revisit the conversation of sex with them, asking them, "What would have to happen for you to want to start having sex again? What would be the perfect scenario for you?" Then to bring this about, have her research new ideas. I'd tell you to do it, but this could work against you if you're trying not to PMO.

-Also, ask her if there was something you tried inside the bedroom or did outside the bedroom that turned her off. OR was there something you asked for that turned her off. This happens a lot, I've seen. Women who've not seen much porn can be shocked at what seems normal to some men--shocked to the point of shutting down because the guy's request begins an eternal debate within her, "I can be true to myself and not give in, or I can be a 'good SO' and give in." Shutting down to sex may be easier for her.

Either way, God bless you all in your efforts to reconnect with your SO!!!

 

An interesting thread, to say the least... My story fits here in that I have been married 20 yr, as of this upcoming October... Our sex life started out great for a couple of years or so and really took a tank when my wife got pregnant and was sick a lot. Unfortunately, the timing corresponded with the increase in availability of the internet and instant P became a drawing force. PMO became an alternative, so I thought... Anyway, keeping it short, she became aware of my problem by finding a webpage in the history that kept coming back up even after clearing the history... The storm blew and the damage ensued... Well, I got my bearings and realized that I didn't want P, I really didn't, and I promised her it would not be a problem again. Well, within a few years it came back up when I found myself in an office with high speed internet and another storm blew in (in my defense, if I have one, we were having a lot of problems in our marriage, and with a baby sleeping in our bed for 4 years, one kid for 2 yrs and the next for 2 yrs, we were not finding time or opportunity for much intimacy)...

that was in 2004... Just as a note, I think it only fair to myself to note that I have always been a good provider, an easy to please husband when it comes down to household matters, a very good father; I have never, ever, denied her sex if she wanted it (not sure how that happens, personally). I have always been willing to carry 95% of the load for our family... even she admits that the porn is the only real gripe that she has about me...

So with two kids, 3 & 5 yrs old, we decided that we didn't want to put them through a split up and would try to make things work... That was 12 years ago... over those 12 years things have been up and down in our marriage and sex has been an issue all along... We have had discussions about this, open discussions, some heated, and some calm. She feels that I should never have married her if I thought that there was a possibility that I would go back to porn (i had looked at porn, when I could get it, throughout my life up to around the age of 20 when I began the struggle against it), so she holds that against me along with the fact that I did do it. So for 12 years I have been hearing about how I destroyed her life every time we discussed any issues that we had, including a lack of intimacy... Last September I decided that I was no longer going to beg for the bone. I deserve better, and I know that. I made my mistakes and have had to live with that, but to quote Andy Dufresne "I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living or get busy dying."

My effort to follow that advice so far has been to:

Take time for myself... Go away for several days by myself at least twice a year. This year I spent 3 days in northern Cali, and a week in New Orleans so far. I am planning a trip up in North Carolina in the fall, either by myself or with one of my kids, she is not invited... I don't ask for her approval, I just let her know that I am going.

Make my own space... If other methods haven't worked to bring you closer, maybe a little more space will make things clearer. What that means for each of us depends on our situation. I have moved into an apartment built onto my office. It is my space. I can choose to spend time with her in the house or I can go and be alone.

I used to feel guilty when I would spend time by myself if she was around. I don't let that feeling come over me any more. She needs to know that I am OK with myself, with her or without her.

You see, as I have explained to her, I feel that she has basically turned our relationship into a "let's just be friends" situation. She is, and as it seems now, will always be, a victim in our marriage. I am at the point where she is going to have to make the same decision that I have, get busy living or get busy dying... A bad marriage feels like death... Being roommates is a bad marriage... It's time to forgive or move on...

@Yesodi First I would like to ask if I can be frank with you... I feel like I just have to, so please forgive me if I offend you in any way it is not my intention. I simply feel for you... I have read through this whole thread and have to say that there were several times I wanted to reach through the screen and shake you by the collar. You can't seriously think that doing the same thing over and over again is going to bring some different results. It's just not going to happen, even G-d doesn't do things that way. If she has made clear that she doesn't want anything to do with you and even encourages you to do something that is harmful, PMO, it is time to change your course. You need to take control of your thoughts, because yes, she is controlling you by occupying your daily thoughts so much. I can say this because I was there for a long time, and I have a pile of journals full of proof of that. I kept thinking that if I just tried to make her happy she would see that I was a good person and things would work out. One problem with that was that I had quit thinking that way about myself. I had heard so many times about my past mistakes that I was not even able to let them go and instead I felt ashamed of myself. I truly needed to be able to forgive myself, and I think that I had earned that right.

So as I said above, I have changed my course. I am not sure what will happen with my marriage, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what I hope will happen. We may find a way back to each other or we may find a different path, but I know one thing for sure, I will not go back to the way things were... I encourage you to look into yourself, your inner self, your self worth and moral rightness, and as she said "go take care of yourself", not with PMO, but with healthy outlets. Make your own space, make your own friends, make your own life without her, and maybe you will be able to make a life with her again... Once you make some internal space from her, you will find it easier to be assertive. When you feel like you have nothing to lose, it's easier to say the things you were afraid would cause you to lose her...

I'm no expert, believe me, I know... I'm just someone else here trying to figure out all of this stuff and hoping that I might be able to help someone else along the way...

 

Im so sorry for what your coping with.I'm recovering from Lyme dieases too, was chronically unwell for two years, it def brought on the relapes my porn addicted husband had! It's really stressful fur everyone.
Lyme is so effective at destroying couples sex life and your not alone. I have many female friends I've met on Lyme support forums who have also told me its out things at breaking point! Recovery from Lyme can take a while too so it's an extra strain then you have loads of work to do as there intermency isn't there. It's make or break then.

My sex drive (always high before, twice a day MO normal for me) vanished when sick and only since treatment have I regained my sex drive. To be honest it's about out of control now, though Its complex.

Oddly enough, going through an illness has changed the way I see life, and as a result life will never be the same again. I think there some good to come out of any recovery, be that a physical illness like Lymes or a p addiction like so many struggle with here.

 

@WonderDNA That was such an honest recounting of your life and marriage. Thank you for taking the time to do that. It sounds like the crux of the problem for your wife is a lack of forgiveness, and without it, the relationship is stalled. My question for you is, have YOU chosen to forgive your wife? Mostly, it's letting go of your side of the chain. You can't do anything about the fact that your wife chooses to hold onto her side, but at least you don't have to be imprisioned as well. I also applaud you for taking steps to take care of yourself and protect your heart. Taking time for yourself and finding a place of peace and rest are so important. And it also sounds like you're still there for her and the kids, and that shows a great level of commitment as well. I wonder if your wife understands that although you have hurt her deeply with porn, you have not turned to other, more damaging ways to express yourself sexually. There's a plethora of examples on this board of that. So, you're not a saint, but you're doing the best you can, which includes connecting here. So I wanted to affirm you in the positive choices you've made and encourage you to continue to make positive choices for yourself, your family, and the people in your sphere of influence.

 

@FPDoc thank you for your comments... you bring up a point that is difficult for me, that of my being forgiving. We are in such a precocious situation right now that I feel bitterness towards her, mainly because I still have the struggle against sexual desires and she knows this. She's known this all along and makes no efforts to be there for me other than an occasional OK to a lifeless quickie after I basically beg for it, which always left me feeling humiliated as a man. So now I have chosen not to ask, and I believe she is content with this, like a "let's just be friends", but with me continuing to take care of her. I also feel bitter because I let her manipulate me into a state of guilt so many times to get her way, especially when I wanted sex, and she still tries to do this even though I have moved out of the house. I just feel sick and tired of all of it. I want to move forward with my life, not stay in the past, but she doesn't seem to want to let me because then she loses her bargaining chip. So it's hard to forgive the things that she is still trying to do. It will be easier to forgive and just move on once the situation changes. I have told her that I am leaving when she finishes school. I don't want to wait, but I can't financially take care of two households, and she won't be able to carry a job and finish school. It also gives me more time with my kids as they are reaching the age of moving on, and two more years without the chaos and financial struggling of a real separation, they will be 17 & 19 so it will be easier then.

So, with all of that going on, I live in my office with access to P all of the time, in a vulnerable state almost constantly especially since I have worked from home for the last 12 years. I struggle with MO for the release from the pressure, but hate it, and love it at the same time. When I MO it makes me want more, it makes me want P, or at least to objectify women in a fantasy so that I can get a stronger high. I went six months without MO, without any O, which is longer than I have gone since I was 10 or 11 years old and when I finally did MO it was extremely painful. Once or twice more and the pain was gone, but that scared me... So, as I feel the frustration from the urges, I can't help but feel angry because sex with her was really all I wanted, it satisfied me. I don't blame her for my P addiction in the past just because we weren't having sex regularly; that was completely my fault. I just know that for the first two years of our marriage I didn't even think about looking at P.

I know that she doesn't understand what opportunities there were that I just avoided. How many opportunities I had to cheat on her and didn't even begin down that route. She never understood how hard I fought against it even when I was at my worst. How sick it made me when I was fighting it, and how sick it made me when I gave in. She wouldn't even acknowledge that when I tried to explain it. For her it was simply me just doing something that hurt her. Truthfully, I never thought it would hurt her so much if she found out. I knew she would be upset, but I reasoned, at the time, that it was only P, not anything real... I had no desire to hurt her...

Now I simply can't imagine being with her. I start to think about trying out of sheer need, but then remember why I am living in a small apartment behind my office. About nine months ago she and I had a heated discussion about our situation and she made clear to me that it disgusted her to be with me, she had to force herself to be with me. That cut through me because I know it wasn't simply a heated statement, it was what I had been feeling for a long time. At that point I moved out. At first I hoped that she would try, maybe just come out and initiate intimacy, but it didn't happen. After a few months I realized that it wasn't going to happen, and realized that I didn't want it to. That was when I realized that I need to find myself as a man; I was a boy when I married her, so I don't feel like I have been able to be me as a man. I have tried to be the man that she wanted me to be. I need to be realize that I can be happy without her. The hardest thing is that this means that I need to be able to live without sex. Live without sex for years. That gives me a sad and sick feeling, but I will not have sex if I am not married; that is just my moral standard. So yes, years, and I don't know how many because I just don't know if I am willing to risk getting into another bad marriage...

Sorry about the long reply, I guess when I get started it just comes pouring out...

 

Thanks so much, @WonderDNA, for your heartfelt concern and advice!

FYI, I have decided to attempt a major step forward in "taking care of myself" by scheduling a meeting later this week with a reputable professional. I'm not sure exactly what, if anything, will come out of this process, but I am going in with a very open mind. And I am very much hoping to receive guidance in -- at the very least -- starting to rebuild my broken life, within "my own space," even without my wife's support if need be.

I plan to update my main thread with any new developments in this area.

 

In addition to the excellent TEDx talk by Michele Weiner-Davis on "The sex-starved marriage," as posted by @Kangaroo, here is another superb video on this same topic: "The Sex-Starved Relationship"

 

I'm looking forward to hearing more @Yesodi . I just downloaded the kindle copy of "Architect of Being: Easily Create Your Dream Life From the Foundation Up" by Jay Billig. I'm looking forward to seeing what nuggets he has gleaned. Let me know if you get it, and we'll compare notes.

 

That sounds good... we have to take care of ourselves. Our minds are our most precious possession and they need to be as healthy as we can keep them.
Take care of yourself, my brother... I am sure with effort you will move forward to better times.