Sexual fantasizing is a form of Pornography. Sexual fantasizing is the root, porn is the crown.

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ultrafabber, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Rehab101

    Rehab101 Fapstronaut

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    With scientific evidence or not, I admit I too am a sufferer of fantasy. This gave me a new direction to look at.
     
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  2. Meditation Monk

    Meditation Monk Fapstronaut

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    Agreed. But it's a free country. Everyone with their own world to live in. I just do it because I am going through stress relief with some things happening in my life. And one time it actually made me relax and laugh out loud. Can't believe how uptight I was. lol.
     
  3. MasterRoshi

    MasterRoshi Fapstronaut

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    I disagree with the hard and fast rule that fantasy is bad.

    However, for me I’ve had 20 years of unhealthy fantasy that became progressively worse. Nearly all of my currently sexual fantasies that pop into my head without any effort, are generally heavily influenced by my porn usage.

    But we have to remember that we’re sexual beings, and can’t successfully fight the biology. So my current goal is to transition from gross, inappropriate sex fiend fantasies, and replace them with sexual fantasies that are in line with my current sexual ideal. It’s important to do this. Because I feel for long term sex addiction sobriety, we have to relearn healthy sex rather than run from sex like it’s a bad thing.

    So my sexual fantasies that pop in my head might be something like attracted to my wife’s sister, or other taboo stuff (which btw I can’t stop from occurring) and if it does happen, I start to fantasize about healthy sexual stuff like laying in the grass and holding hands with or touching a thigh with my wife...

    The first time I did this transition, I had zero arousal towards the healthy sexual fantasy, but now, a few weeks into this reframing, I now find the new scenarios arousing. And it makes me smile.

    This is my current solution to the fantasy problem. And it seems to be working.


    That said, I try not to entertain fantasy to often, cuz it leads to isolating sexual energy which is apart of my underlying problem. But many times it happens without my control and when it does the above is how I utilize the moment as a positive.
     
  4. Rehab101

    Rehab101 Fapstronaut

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    @MasterRoshi I had found my so unattractive mainly due to pmo, I will try your method and reframe myself. There are a lot of time I found it impossible but I think your method maybe my solution.
     
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  5. This thread has been very interesting to read for me
    And I agree partly with everyone
    For me, I don’t think fantasy is good or bad
    But I know I should be very very mindful of it
    Pretty much every time I’ve acted out, fantasy has been the precursor to it, so if I want to stop the addiction then it’s at that point I still have choice.
    And I totally agree with your point about changing unhealthy into healthy, and not run away from it, as I think it would just get bigger.
    I think there’s just a particular type of fantasy that I need to be careful of, it’s more like plotting/fantasy, I guess a good way to explain it is, one type of fantasy I’d share with my wife, more like what your talking about, making love, and has a wider spiritual connection. The other is about getting a dopemine fix, and is shrouded in secrecy and shame
     
  6. There was some wisdom in your post (although I disagree that fantasy is ultimately bad as fantasy is directly linked with creativity), but it's this that caught my eye. In the sense that it's completely nonsensical. Really? Happening to think about another person, you really consider that as a violation of the relationship?

    Thoughts are not sins. Actions are (or more pointedly, can be).
     
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  7. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I emphasized the distinction between imagination and fantasy and the common misconception that they are the same. Imagination/creativity is something to be cherished, fantasy gets built with imagination but is something destructive, that disconnects you from self and short-circuits your reward mechanism - you get pleasure/reward/a feeling of accomplishment out of nothing.

    Thinking about a person in a proper context is not a violation. Thinking of your work colleague about work, projects, friendship or common interests is not a violation of the relationship. Thinking you fuck your colleague or imagining romantic dinners with your colleague when you're in a committed relationship is cheating.

    This holds true with or without a religious orientation.

    But in the context of religion, in Christianity thoughts are sins. And lusting is a sin - adultery. But again, this is true even if we ignore the religious context.

    I want to answer to more comments but i'll do it later.
     
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  8. It's impossible to properly substantiate that fantasizing about another person is cheating since this is a subjective philosophy. I can understand where you're coming from and I can agree it's not something one should be doing in a relationship, but I can't say you've actually "cheated" on the person and instead, you're on a path where it could most definitely lead to cheating.

    For this, we'll have to agree to disagree.
     
  9. Clandestine

    Clandestine Fapstronaut

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    A step further....

    This is ALL amazing stuff and so very very good! However, NOW.... to take this to the next level, in the above post where it's written, "if you're not happy, use that frustration..."

    So here's the next level... get with a therapist to explore WHY you're not happy! With a qualified and good therapist they will find this answer in your mental core. Your "core issue/s".... and that comes from your childhood in many different way's shapes and forms. It will be the core reason you are not happy. THEN you can BEGIN the journey of healing those core issues. That journey can also not be very fun for many... hence the reason for the painful core issue = not happy. When those things get triggered or tapped the unhappiness sets in... then we want to medicate!

    Yes, there are good and great tools and ways to learn to deal with and cope with unhappiness in the moment/s, but until one addresses the bottom line CORE reason for it, it will always be there. To embark on a healing journey to address and heal those wounds will change your life. There are treatments and therapeutic ways to address these issues today. No one has to walk around with inner pain that they have to deal with or stuff anymore. It's a big step, but it can be essential. It's also a concept that can be confusing to understand and certainly cannot be clearly explained in three short paragraphs, so my point is... as mentioned here in this thread many times. Therapy.
     
  10. de severn

    de severn Moderator Assistant

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    I wish I could pay you royalties for what you said. I'm going to preserve it! Thanks!
     
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  11. slapdad jones

    slapdad jones Fapstronaut

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    I believe that fantasizing is a willful form of suffering. I also believe that it resides on the continuum of our addiction just in a lesser form. We desire, we grasp, and unless its released we suffer. It goes away for a while then those feelings come back. Buddhism talks about seeing the thought and acknowledging it, then dismissing it. Its not easy and these thought patterns are beyond persistent. Like everything, the more we do it, the stronger it gets. The original post suggests that fantasy is the basis from which all of our problems arise. This is true. It is also how we were conditioned. Some of us had experiences that we didnt want or were unable to prevent.
    Ultimately the post turns into an analysis and is broken down into smaller and smaller qualifications. I see it as being very simple: if it is a behavior that is causing suffering, then do your best to let it go. Try to understand the root cause. Is it a lacking? A wish? Jeff Tweedy of Wilco said in a song: "my lies are only wishes" That is true for me.
    Utilizing mindfulness and engaging in a consistent meditation practice help me stay present. I do my best to be my best. What else can you do?
    The thread was very good and I thank you all for your input.
     
  12. Tryingto

    Tryingto Fapstronaut

    Great point! As always, there are, in my opinion, some grey areas here. I do imagine, for instance, there are some who can fantasize in a non-obsessive, non-denigrating way. As a recovering addict, this is not me! So your point is very, very apt - I do use fantasy as a means of disconnection, an obsessive means of disconnection.

    And great question! Personally, I find trying to stop these thoughts is a disaster - it just ain't gonna happen. I can, however, learn to direct my attention elsewhere when they arise. They are still there, in such moments, but not the focus, not driving my life. They are there, but I am not enslaved. At least in my better moments...
     
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  13. This line of thinking, all of the input and insightful perspectives are exactly what make NoFap such a beautiful and amazing community.
    I think we all need to take a moment here and thank the OP for engaging us all so earnestly. It's not easy to put yourself out there and speak your mind. It takes courage to place yourself in the way of critique and criticism. However if you feel it can genuiely help both yourself and others than it is a necessity and moral obligation to all.

    What are we doing here?
    We are taking back our sexual power that has been hijacked from us, many of us(myself included) before we could even understand what was going on. Before i had even hit puberty.
    We have stepped into the realm of mindfulness.
    And living in the 21st century high-speed internet pornography era, we are pioneers swimming against a current of ignorance and self deception.

    <It-all-starts-in-the-mind.>
    As we collectively learn to detach from the notion that we are our thoughts. We gain power as the witness to them, un-consumed.

    Personally, i for 1 see how fantasty and desire are the source of all my suffering. And it's been many years getting to this point of slowly living presently and mindfully. Even still, i struggle but i can say. i see progress. I see a way out now. Meditation is imperative.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  14. Dinesh The Survivor

    Dinesh The Survivor Fapstronaut

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  15. 876dream765

    876dream765 Fapstronaut

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    Totally agree. Even though I never watched porn, I always used to fantasize and guess what now I'm suffering from ED.
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Fapstronaut

    Fantasy: Porn's back up drives.
    Like many people here, I found my fantasies were completely out -of-tune from what i liked on the street - that is because many fantasies are representations/substitutes of other needs, very often non sexual. Sometimes they are coping strategies (not good ones) for a tramatic life event you keep reliving.

    Fantasies are the WAY to healing - find out what is behind the fantasy and work to fulfill that need in a healthy way.

    For example (these are EXAMPLES not cures or diagnoses!) :
    Fem-dom -- low self esteem
    gay fantasy - sexualized unmet father figure need
    rape-- sexual abuse at a younger age
    BSDM - traumatic medical treatment that involved humiliation and love at the same time (there is a lot of evidence that almost all BSDM have some root in this)
     
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  17. Tryingto

    Tryingto Fapstronaut

    This is certainly my experience. It also helps me understand why recovery from this addiction takes so long - there are a great many threads winding together into the tangled little mess!
     
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  18. Tryingto

    Tryingto Fapstronaut

    I certainly see something similar in my own case. In many ways, fantasy is Ground Zero of this addiction for me. It's where this particular style of coping begins and where it returns to again and again. It precedes touching, masturbation, images, pornography, and chatrooms. And when all these are removed, fantasy is where I too typically go back to for some sort of fix - which, of course, inevitably results in the return of touching, etc...

    Given this, as I look at my recovery in the longterm, it's pretty clear that at some point and in some way fantasy needs to be met in a more constructive and healthy, sustainable and life-affirming (ie: non-addictive) way. A bit daunting, but honest and realistic...
     
  19. Inner Conqueror

    Inner Conqueror Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys, I'm new to this site. I'd say 90% of the time I'm masturbating it's to my fantasies rather than porn. I've lost so many hours to masturbating, it's unbelievable.

    The worst time for me is waking up in the morning, I usually lose several hours of my day to it, sometimes the whole day because I keep going back to sleep. I think what I "get out of it" is a feeling of numbness. I enjoy the idea of sleeping my life away sadly.

    If anyone has any tips or advice for a newbie I could really use it.

    Thanks and have a happy Thanksgiving

    -Con
     
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  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Fapstronaut

    resolve not to do it. Have a replacement plan. Get up and work out. schedule something early. Get up and journal. Adapt a new morning routine that will energize you, not leave you feeling tired and guilty and mad.
     
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