So does @nofap oficially endorse auto-fellatio as well?

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ultrafabber, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Clean Willy

    Clean Willy Fapstronaut

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    uberfapper, you are pedant. You constantly start threads to raise contentious issues, that do what exactly? Draw attention to yourself! Ah, therein lies the nub of the matter! No one else has a problem with the word moderation. What is moderation to one person will be different to another. It is subjective. So what? We are individuals on our unique journey of recovery. You are trying to construct a nanny state in this community where everyone conforms to your opinion and your way of looking at things. Just wind your neck in dude and concentrate on your own journey.
     
  2. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    No, I didn't skip anything. I read the whole thing and that's why I'm pretty sure I understand exactly, what Alexander was trying to say (as everybody else, you uses a little bit of common sense).

    But since you accuse me of not getting the point, please share your godly wisdom with a peasant like myself. Be specific: What's wrong with Alexanders posts? Until now you only suggested, that by his posts he apparantly argues auto-fellatio is fine (which he obviously didn't mean, nor say). So, enlighten me.
     
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  3. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    @ultrafabber he @IR254 sums it up beautifully. You have clearly derailed here. Come back on track. Do whats right for you.
    Nofap is basically a Porn addiction Help community. It is filled with plenty of advice and general guidelines. @NoFap its serving its purpose.
    If you do not think @ultrafabber M is doing good for you, you can let go of that grip or mouth (pun intented) from your cock like many others here have for lifetime.
     
    IR254 likes this.
  4. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    My suggestion is to skip the condescending tone or this dialogue ends.

    @NoFap 's official stance is that masturbation is normal and healthy in moderation, yet they do not explain why it's normal or healthy, nor do they define "moderation". Skipping the normal and healthy part, the least that should be done would be to define "moderation" since telling addicts to moderate the exact behavior they are addicted to is grossly incorrect. An addict will always rationalize to more, not less.

    I can pick any topic/behavior and i can pinpoint with a relatively small margin where "moderation" ends, yet they refuse to address a very simple question. They just tell people they can go ahead and masturbate cause it's healthy in moderation.

    This is part one of the problem.

    Part two of the problem is that, and i know this is something most people really struggle to realize, if one posits that masturbation (stroking your dick to completion) is normal and healthy, sucking your dick to completion is also normal and healthy as it's basically the same thing - self stimulation / self gratification etc. It's just one body part that differs (mouth instead of hand).

    This applies to you and anyone else that considers masturbation to be normal - to be logically consistent you'd have to have no problem sucking your own dick to completion (assuming you have the flexibility). Yet most people will consider the act abhorrent and won't do it even if it is easy to do.

    So you accuse me of starting threads to "raise contentious issues" and imply i should stop doing so, yet you also despise the "nanny state". So which one is it? You want me to stop or you don't like the "nanny state"?

    I submit mostly original content, and yes, original content does differ from the rest of the forum. You see it as bad, that's your problem. And you're also contradicting yourself since you argue against conforming to other's opinions.

    I don't care if anyone agrees with me. I write what i find logical and correct. Most people will not connect the dots but some do.

    The name noFAP suggest something different, not a porn addiction forum. That's the problem really. It's noFAP but actually "ifyouwanttofapmoderatelydosocauseitsok"
     
  5. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    So, how would you define "moderation"? And why are you obssesed with autofellatio? And even if they "define", will you follow? What good it shall do? Even "sex" is messy, will you abstain for life? What "good" them defining "moderation" to you do?
     
  6. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    Everyone writes what they find logical. No person shall write or say what he finds illogical.
    But what may seem logical to me or you, might be wrong and not true at all e.g the earth centric theory.
    Masturbation as defined by merriam-webster dictionary
    erotic stimulation especially of one's own genital (see GENITAL sense 2) organs commonly resulting in orgasmand achieved by manual (see MANUALentry 1 sense 1) or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation (see MANIPULATE sense 1), occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies.

    In defination focus is on "Manual" implying "Hands" .... So according to merriam webster dictionary : Auto fellatio may not be considered as an act of "masturbation".
    So they should change the name. But @Alexander Would have trademarked it and it will cost a lot of money, I guess.
    Also @Alexander Kindly reply and define "moderation" to end this thread.
     
  7. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    Boo hoo.

    You have a clear misunderstanding here. Alexander is clearly talking about porn addiction, not addiction to masturbation. The two can occur simultanously of course, but that doesn't always have to be the case. Therefore, the behavior in question is not the same as the addiction itself (and Alexander makes that pretty clear, if you read is posts thoroughly and honestly). This misunderstanding of yours in mind, you're "point" isn't a point anymore. But even if it would be, there is still no need for a fixed number as the number obviously varies from person to person.

    In which world are those two the same thing? That's ridicouless. It becomes so obvious, that you have a clear result in mind when arguing like that. And that's exactly why you fail to notice how flawed your argumentation is: No, that assessment is just not correct. "Normal" means "it's the norm", "it's the norm" means "it's usual/typical/standard", and "usual/typical/standard" is what most people do on a regular basis. You pointed it out correctly yourself, that most people would never consider sucking your own dick a typical male behavior. Hardly anyone can physically do it and even if they can, most won't. That's literally the contradiction of "normal".
     
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  8. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I expect the same respect i'm giving.

    So we are done here.

    You're missing that part. Women can masturbate by rubbing their legs/tighs together and men can masturbate by tugging/holding their penis between their legs and thrusting or moving their legs. No hands involved whatsoever. A man that does the penis between legs thing is not legsturbating, he is also masturbating. A man or woman can masturbate by humping the bed using no hands, it's not bedsturbation. Masturbating is self-arousal/gratification. One can even masturbate by clenching his/her pelvic muscles.

    Then you do see part of the problem. It is, at the very least, a contradictory term and a contradictory stance on masturbation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  9. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    Respect is not given, it's earned. So pull the stick out of your ass and defend your argumentation.
     
  10. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    That's hilarious. Bye.
     
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  11. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    I thought so. No substance behind all the weird assumptions and irrational lines of thought.
     
  12. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    I think ... Not sure... but the whole Nofap thing started as a Joke until they found out that P Addiction is real... Nofap for 90days thats what they prescribe? Have you completed your course?
     
  13. I don't think auto-fellatio was on their mind at all though. To be fair, I don't know the websites official stance on auto-fellatio and it is very possible that it might be that if done in moderation it's ok, however sick that sounds.

    I agree that they should probably define moderation. I don't like loose definitions. It gives people the excuse to push the boundaries.

    This is a good point. Saying it's like eating apples is basically saying it is healthy, and should be encouraged. This is really problematic for a few reasons.

    1. It encourages masturbation use on a website designed to help quit masturbation use.
    2. It is saying it is not only not problematic, but is down right a good thing to do.
    3. It assumes it is healthy to begin with.
     
    ultrafabber likes this.
  14. Wow that's a lot of religious traditions! That takes quite a lot of dedication. Are you planning on living a life of chastity?
     
  15. Rebooter45674

    Rebooter45674 Fapstronaut

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    Me uhm... No!
    May be some time later
    Chastity or celibacy is too much ....I am not mentally prepared for that.... I am of the thought that you should live your life practically.
    If You suppress carnal desires too much unwantedly that will lead to unwelcomed and unhealthy results. If you are trying to force something on yourself, it will only be disastrous.
    If you want to pursue something(eg God, enlightenment) then that is altogether a different matter.
    More or less I switch between religious or spirituality and atheism or agnostism... Well if you ask me, I do whatever suits me...like most people... But you should be practical
    Also, I am not a very virtuous person neither I am a very vile man.
    I have given MGTOW a serious thought but the ideology astrayed and r/MGTOW is pretty much toxic and women hating.
    Men going their own way. I do not hate women but I do not see any good that can come out of marriage or relationships. Also, laws all around the world becoming more and more women centric (a good initiative intialy but now they are kind of overdoing it). Especially in my country i.e. India, I see why those laws are there or were there, But a man is in serious trouble if a woman accuses him. You are "guilty till proven innocent" and even if proven innocent there is no serious provision of penalty for accusor.
    Also, most of India's (I would say even world) problems stem from overpopulation. In that respect, I do not see any benefit of having children.
    Also, most societies treat their "men" as disposables. Gender pay gap exists because men are willing to pay extra price and are willing to do ridiculous jobs.
    Also,
    I donot deny that there is a need of upliftment of women in India and policies are required for that. Many are in place and women have risen significantly. Much work is still needed in Rural India.
    But the problem lies in potential misuse of very women centric law (which has been done many times) and also the attitude "a women can not be wrong".
    Feminists have a tendency of "cherrypicking".
    There is a good documentry on netflix.
    https://www.netflix.com/in/title/80239988?preventIntent=true
    Martyrs of marriage.
     
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  16. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I did get 90 days but its not about 90 days its about stopping for ever, being able to watch porn without relapsing, stopping sex fantasies and masturbation and ultimately lose interest in anything but real sex.

    90 days "detox" is a very very low bar.
     
  17. Sir Minato

    Sir Minato Fapstronaut

    This is a forum for self help and self improvement. Not a fight club.
    Everyone treats each other with respect here, that's the common sense for having a discussion.
     
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  18. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    We clearly have a different definition of "respect" in mind. Of course we don't insult each other (which I certainly didn't), but I won't blow smoke up his ass just for the sake of being nice. If a simple "Boo hoo" is too rude for this forum, we have a serious problem.
     
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  19. Sir Minato

    Sir Minato Fapstronaut

    You are using sarcasting exaggeration here. You are basically indirectly telling that his point has no wisdom at all and that he is putting himself on a throne which he clearly doesn't, he just states logical statements and asks for clarification. Also logic is not something subjective. Logic has a definition. Associations are subjective, and you would not make a connection between these two forms of masturbation, but they are still logically connected.

    He doesn't want to take part in your exaggerated approach, his focus is on the discussion, and it is a healthy thing to do to announce that he will withdraw if you don't respect common rules of a discussion. Sarcasm and exaggeration has no place in serious discussions, they are informal and misleading.

    You are belittling his formal announcement and making it look like he is hurt and too sensitive, by saying this. You are not taking him serious.

    He declares his value of mutual respect in a discussion, and since you don't show any with your words, he ends his willingness to be involved with you, after he announced it before hand.

    You are declaring your own value. You are using an inappropriate image that accuses him once again. You show him that you are not able to be insightful.
    He doesn't have a stick in his ass, but he has common values for a discussion which should be mutually obeyed, they are not just his, but they are part of every forums terms that you agree upon.

    Once again you accuse him and take his action as a validation for your own point of view, when in fact, you are misunderstanding the situation. He simply doesn't agree with your terms of discussion and is not willing to take part in that. If you were to obey the common rule of mutual respect, it would be possible for you to see that it's not just irrational and with no substance.

    And aside from that, he already made a lot of logical arguments and explained them, as well as the risks involved for an addicted that is simply told "do it in moderation".

    I can understand both of you. Hope this analysis helps out.
     
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  20. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    Yea, I do. And why wouldn't I? After I was basically accused of being too dumb to understand the point, I find it okay to answer in a sarcastic way.

    ...which I accepted multiple times during my posts.

    Disagree.

    And who gets to decide what is "inappropriate"? Because I don't think my answer was anywhere near inappropriate.

    You're a funny fellow. Are such accussation "respectful" then?

    None of my posts violated the forum rules. Enough said.

    It basically is, though. The rest of my "disrespectful" post makes that pretty clear I think. My "disrespectfulness" was simply a welcome opportunity for him to not have to answer any of it.

    I'm afraid, it doesn't.
     

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