Societal views x taste in fiction (ANSWER THIS POLL TO SAVE KITTENS)
- Thread starter Anti-Hero
- Start date
gordie
Fapstronaut
This is so hard to answer. I’m a Lord of the Rings guy through and through, but I have a lot of admiration for Harry Potter as I’ve gotten older (I’ve been reading ancient English literature like Arthurian tales and Beowulf, and it’s made me see things in Harry Potter that I think are interesting, even though I haven’t read it since I was very young). I like both but I think Harry Potter is obviously a more exclusively children’s book, whereas Lord of the Rings and especially the Hobbit are fairy tales that reach as far “up” in age, maturity and intelligence as much as they reach down. They are much more universal, especially to Europeans. They are much better books, undoubtedly.
Politically, I can’t identify with either side in America. I don’t think Trump’s election was stolen, but I also don’t think trans women are women (sorry, mods). I think socialism has proven to alleviate certain social and environmental ailments that run rampant in America but I think regulated capitalism is the best system we have currently. I have a pretty long record in academia and so I have a fondness for universities, but I know for a fact that critical theory has run rampant and is destroying certain disciplines in the university and creating new bullsh** majors. I’d love to talk about this last point in detail.
I also loathe the victimhood that characterizes the left, but I would support outreach and rehabilitation programs for poor neighborhoods and people.
I also love guns and support the second amendment.
I live in a big Texas city, and I get hissed at by liberals and conservatives alike. My principles seem totally out of wack with any party in America and I mean that honestly.
Politically, I can’t identify with either side in America. I don’t think Trump’s election was stolen, but I also don’t think trans women are women (sorry, mods). I think socialism has proven to alleviate certain social and environmental ailments that run rampant in America but I think regulated capitalism is the best system we have currently. I have a pretty long record in academia and so I have a fondness for universities, but I know for a fact that critical theory has run rampant and is destroying certain disciplines in the university and creating new bullsh** majors. I’d love to talk about this last point in detail.
I also loathe the victimhood that characterizes the left, but I would support outreach and rehabilitation programs for poor neighborhoods and people.
I also love guns and support the second amendment.
I live in a big Texas city, and I get hissed at by liberals and conservatives alike. My principles seem totally out of wack with any party in America and I mean that honestly.
Slimjimjones
Fapstronaut
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Deleted Account
Guest
the left and the right have finally united against a common enemy, harry potter
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Deleted Account
Guest
my take:
I'm a fairly left-wing person and very progressive, but I'm not extremely political
I prefer LoTR because the story seems much more natural and refreshing, while I love all the plot twists that HP had, it just doesn't give me that cool old-school fantasy vibe
both are great but it's all about the vibes, ya know?
I'm a fairly left-wing person and very progressive, but I'm not extremely political
I prefer LoTR because the story seems much more natural and refreshing, while I love all the plot twists that HP had, it just doesn't give me that cool old-school fantasy vibe
both are great but it's all about the vibes, ya know?
AtomicTango
Fapstronaut
I dont really think either story has that much of a political leaning. I think the issue is people project their own biases onto the fiction and can get really annoying about doing so. This is obviously way worse with Harry Potter, the amount of times I saw people relate the events of the books to real world events was incredibly obnoxious. Then you have JK retconning certain aspects of the story to make it seem like she was more forward thinking than she actually was, which is embarrassing for her. Just have the balls to say "Yeah, I wrote a story in the fucking 90's about white kids in a magic school, if you dont like it fuck off" and leave it at that. All the retroactive diversity makes you seem like a pandering and disingenuous opportunist.
As you can tell, I much, MUCH prefer LOTR. As a turbo sperg LOTR has that sweet, sweet deep lore and worldbuilding and is generally a better told story. I want to like Harry Potter but it's obvious so much of it was made up on the spot and was not thought out properly (one movie/book they have time travel all of a sudden and it's established they cant actually change the past, just make it happen the way it always did, but then in the cursed child they actually do change the past, nice consistency there lol) and as an aforementioned turbo sperg that really triggers me.
As you can tell, I much, MUCH prefer LOTR. As a turbo sperg LOTR has that sweet, sweet deep lore and worldbuilding and is generally a better told story. I want to like Harry Potter but it's obvious so much of it was made up on the spot and was not thought out properly (one movie/book they have time travel all of a sudden and it's established they cant actually change the past, just make it happen the way it always did, but then in the cursed child they actually do change the past, nice consistency there lol) and as an aforementioned turbo sperg that really triggers me.
Anti-Hero
Fapstronaut
There are some quasi-political themes I can point finger to. Lord reveres history, nations, simple life, beauty. Potter speaks of escaping your upbringing, changing who you are, it celebrates the weird and quirky. There's probably a lot more I can't see. The two worlds have very different feels to them.
I started this thread because so far I've been able to tell a twitter person's leanings based off of whether they'd been lotrposting or hpposting 100% of time. Apparently I did not go through a large enough sample though.
I started this thread because so far I've been able to tell a twitter person's leanings based off of whether they'd been lotrposting or hpposting 100% of time. Apparently I did not go through a large enough sample though.
Rents77
Fapstronaut
AtomicTango
Fapstronaut
I've seen the same sorts of people on twitter as well. I think the main reason HP is used by left-leaning people is less about the content of the books and more because they are extremely mainstream. Doing the exact same thing with Marvel has already begun now that is the dominant property.
Thing is, I dont think HP is liberal at all. I dont agree with everything said in this 4chan post but I think it makes several good points, mainly regarding how ass-backwards the universe of HP actually is if you think about it for more than 5 minutes.
modern milarepa
Fapstronaut
OK I'll vote only because it's for the sake of saving kittens
modern milarepa
Fapstronaut
If I'm forced to choose I'll say I'm a right wing Harry Potter. But I don't like to be part on any group as Groucho Marx said "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member". I don't like to define myself. I find it self limiting.
But I'm trying to be more friendly I swear.
By the way we all know deep in our hearts that Gandalf and Dumbledore are the same person.
But I'm trying to be more friendly I swear.
By the way we all know deep in our hearts that Gandalf and Dumbledore are the same person.
gordie
Fapstronaut
Aside from its Catholic fan base, LOTR appealed heavily to the hippie generation though. Tolkien wasn’t in a world concerned with the ridiculous assertions of the far left/ right today. Not to mention, left and right had different sets of ideas back then. And the guy was a literature professor at Oxford who busted his chops on Beowulf and old English poems.
The modern cultural right’s reappraisal of Medieval values wouldn’t have been a political issue in the ‘60s, and LOTR is a much richer book if you read it through the lens of Medievalism, cultural Christianity, folklore, and Ancient English literature than if you read it as a right-wing post-2015 pamphlet supporting traditionalism. The modern right has taken these as a bulwark against nihilism and cultural egalitarianism (and good for them, sincerely) but Tolkien wrote these books coming out of two world wars, not a bunch of Twitter feuds about wypipo.
kropo82
Fapstronaut
Tolkien is pollitical, though I doubt that was his goal (nor even consciously done). But how could a writer not be political?
Miéville's written more, like this in Socialist Review, but I think has since mellowed a bit in his attitude to Tolkien.
(All that said, I do love both LotR & HP, though HP had a bigger impact on my life.)
China Miéville said:
Miéville's written more, like this in Socialist Review, but I think has since mellowed a bit in his attitude to Tolkien.
(All that said, I do love both LotR & HP, though HP had a bigger impact on my life.)
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AtomicTango
Fapstronaut
Well said. I'm pretty sure Tolkien himself said he wanted LOTR to be free of allegory. Now without getting into the whole death of the author thing (which I cant be bothered doing tbh) it's pretty obvious that LOTR was always intended to be a straightforward adventure story that people have hijacked for their own ends decades later, in a completely different social context. LOTR isnt a racist allegory for the white man triumphing over evil brown savages in the same way it's not an allegory for environmentalism, or anything else people have said it is. Take from it what you will of course but it's just a story about a group of people on a quest to destroy a ring. Its simplicity is part of the reason people like it so much.
AtomicTango
Fapstronaut
There is a difference between deliberately trying to make a work political and people ascribing political intent to it after the fact. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as the saying goes.
Not going to lie to you, that excerpt is some of the most pretentious drivel I have read in a long time. That writer sounds like he has a serious chip on his shoulder.
Anti-Hero
Fapstronaut
I use the same reasoning when I'm asked why don't I have a gf.
Those are some good points, hp actually might be pretty eh... supremacist? Voldemort was bigoted, but so was the rest of the wizarding world. I think Hagrid explains at one moment that the purpose of the Ministry of Magic is to keep magic in the hands of the chosen: wizards and to exclude Muggles from the benefits that it offers.
@gordie interesting facts and observations. I didn't know about the hippies. You're probably right that the twitter rightists who simp for jrrt don't really understand him. I certainly don't.
@kropo82 those are some pretty harsh words coming from Mieville. I wonder if reading Perdido Street Station will turn me into a smug Marxist? Let's find out.
modern milarepa
Fapstronaut
Haha