Some NoFap moderators could be occasionally unfair?

Discussion in 'NoFap Technical Support and Feedback' started by Star Lord, Aug 10, 2016.

  1. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

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    Yes, you've certainly got us all thinking. I like the moderators' feedback.

    I might as well show my true colours: I used to be "Siloam Levi" when I was signed up to NoFap in 2015. I'm still using this as a pen name on my website.

    Can I ask what I received my initial warning for last year? Inappropriate comments, was it?

    In my shock at being told off, I didn't read the actual warning but straight away told the moderator to "get fucked." Next time I tried to log in, I found that I'd been banned. It's been burning me up keeping that secret the whole time I've been here as J Scott/L Coroneos. Nice to be able to 'fess up and apologise, and I am sorry I did it. The mod I swore at doesn't have to respond; in fact he (or she) might prefer just to tell me his (or her) reasons via PM. I'd appreciate that.
     
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  2. Star Lord

    Star Lord Fapstronaut

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    Welcome. Why hide? Be yourself. NoFap shouldn't be a place where you are fearful of saying the wrong thing.
    The freedom of speech act applies to the real and virtual world and a forum shouldn't take that right away from people just because theres a powerful button to hand, even if it's a strong word like fuck off. The moderator should have remained neutral and understand you were angry and words when your angry are often the most hard hitting but least meant.
    The world is too sheltered, its making people wimps and fewer people stand up for themselves.
    Good on you for coming out dude.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
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  3. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

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    Thanks buddy. As I said, it's a good thread you started here, and I notice that a moderator has retracted his "boo hoo" response to your original post.

    I also notice that someone I've blocked has been posting on this thread. To him I have this to say: shut your mouth. Your high post count doesn't earn you any credibility with me at all. I didn't even have to click "Show Ignored Content" to know that what you've posted is liable to be typically uninsightful and dumb. (It's not you, RepentMySins, nor is it a moderator. Just a big clown. He'll read this and say something like, "Ere, wot's goin' on ere then? 'Oo's 'e tawkin' about?")

    I have one last thing to say, and I really hope I am free to say it. My honest opinion is that we should be able to criticise vices such as homosexuality without fear of reprisals from moderators. But that goes against the forum's rules, does it not? ;)
     
  4. GSarosi

    GSarosi Guest

    I had my few run ins with some mods in here. No biggie because I know I am better and stronger than them inside and out outside of this website. That is what matters. How?

    I can successfully tackle this NoFap in one shot without any relapse whatsoever. Something I am sure the mods cannot accomplish. Also I am sure I am free in all the ways they are not.

    If anyone of you can achieve the one shot NoFap then you are most likely better than many who try to put this behind the mods included.
     
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  5. Star Lord

    Star Lord Fapstronaut

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    I'm a believer in having the right to express opinion to a degree. But if every post on a topic has clear evidence of malicious intent by the sane poster, then I believe the line is crossed. But it seems that certain topics of discussion have no line at all and if you say something that an individual doesn't like then it's an instant removal, which I think is an unfair and unjust approach. But that's just me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  6. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

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    I totally agree.

    Actually the reason I came back to these forums was to achieve my goal of three months of the NoFap challenge and it turns out I've been able to make progress achieving some of my my lifelong hopes and dreams along the way. To this end, I feel that the moderators are doing the best they can to provide a safe and constructive environment for us. But as we have seen, power can corrupt and even mods can make mistakes from time to time. I wonder if any other moderators have comments for us... they've all been tagged so perhaps next time they hop online they can contribute their thoughts on what it's like from their side of the fence, so that we get a clearer and more constructive overview of what can be improved on NoFap.
     
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  7. Star Lord

    Star Lord Fapstronaut

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    I liked your post dude, but I will say that I shouldn't feel like I should tread lightly because I joined this forum for free. Apart from that everything else you said is very nice.
     
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  8. BuddhaPunkRobotMonk

    BuddhaPunkRobotMonk Community Manager
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    First, I want to thanks everyone for offering criticism on this thread. As moderators, we are always learning, and always trying to do the best job we can. Having worked with all the current moderators, and I can personally attest that none of them are interested in power or cronying up to certain users. Instead, we do our best to make these forums a safe place, which involves enforcing the rules regarding bigoted or offensive language, or the excessive use of religious language, which can make the non-religious (or other-religious) feel unwelcome. This often lands us in some uncertainty, where we have to weigh the interests of the community with those of an individual user, or mediate a dispute between two users. It can be difficult to decide what to do sometimes, but we always try to be fair and impartial. Several times an item has remained in the Reported Posts queue for several days because the moderation team was undecided what to do about it. Some people may consider this indecision. But I think it speaks to the moderation team's equitability. We are hesitant to act before we know all the available information and have input from the rest of the moderation team.

    Sometime we make mistakes. I will admit to my own share of mistakes. We are only human, and we have humanity's limitations. We can only go off the information that is provided to us, and that is sometimes incomplete. I've found, however, that all the moderators are open to reviewing their decisions. If you have a question about a moderator action, please contact the moderator in question, or any other member of the moderation team. We are always happy to reconsider our moderation decisions.

    As for the charge of cronyism, I can see why some people would think this. Often when mediating disputes between two users (in which users sometimes try to use the Reporting feature as a weapon to get the moderators to take sides) it can look like the moderation team is supporting one member against another. However, this is purely circumstantial. We always go strictly by the forum rules, not a particular user's wish for revenge. Often we have to admonish both parties, for using abusive and offensive language to each other. But we always strive towards impartiality, even if that may not be fully realized. We are human, after all, and it is only too easy to let our own prejudices and opinions inform our moderation. We may not even realize we are doing this. But this is something moderators all over the world have to struggle with, and fortunately we have other moderators on the team to check us in cases where we may have been biased. I confidently believe the moderation team has struck a good balance in this regard, and as a result I think our moderation actions have been equitable. We are all just trying to do our best.

    Additionally, as @NoBrainer and @Yesodi pointed out, we do all have our own moderation styles. I am probably stricter than NoBrainer on religious material. This may foster charges of inconsistency, depending on the different approaches each moderators takes to similar situations. However, we are usually consistent within our own styles, and it is only human nature that different moderation approaches will arise. We do often collaborate about establishing policies for certain situations, so that our moderator approaches will be as close to one another's as possible. However even such policies leaves a lot of room for personal "moderation styles."

    I was the one who deleted this. I am sorry I did not follow up and message you about the reasons for my decision. I apologize. Because I did not do so, you mistakenly believed that the reason your thread was removed was because of a moderator's personal prejudice against your religion. However, that is not the case at all. I am personally Christian myself, and my own personal set of prejudices were not involved in this particular situation. Indeed, where material of religious nature is concerned, we are ecumenical. We remove material of Muslim, Hindu, Buddhit and Taoist nature as well, as well the occasional atheistic rant about the "idiocy" of all religions.

    The thread was removed because it is our general policy to keep material of religious nature restricted to personal journals and reboot logs. Here is the relevant rule:

    This particular rule may be controversial among religious folks, I'm not sure. I know that when i first arrived on these forums I found it a bit restrictive. But now having been on the website for a while and learning more about the community and how its members interact with each other, I can see the wisdom behind this rule. Porn addiction is not a respecter of creed, gender, political beliefs, or socio-economic status. It is not just a problem in a certain sub-group in society, such as just among Christians, or just among those people without jobs. No, it is a human problem, and anyone can fall prey to it. Because of that, NoFap strives to be a welcoming place to people of all creeds, or no creeds at all. To do that we need these people to feel welcome, and this is where restricting religious content from everywhere except personal journals come in. If we did not do so, religious material (in general or of a particular religion) might come to dominate the forum, giving the appearance of official partiality to a particular faith (or nonfaith), which could be very offputting to new users of certain faiths or unfaith looking for help in deal with their personal compulsive pornography use. For this reason, we like to keep religious material to personal journals and the different religious Groups.

    However I was hesitant to remove the thread in question because I realized that you had put a lot of work you had put into it. I actually tried to find your reboot log, if you have one, so that I could move the post there instead. However, not finding it, I made the decision to remove it. If you have a reboot log and wish me to move the thread into it, I am certainly willing to restore the thread and move it there.

    Yes, this is something we could improve upon (or at least I can, because I can't speak for the other moderators). Thank you for the suggestion. Often in the case of minor offenses, such as posting religious material or advertising, especially if it is a first offense, I just remove the material without alerting the OP. I can see how that would lead to misunderstanding, however, and will be more conscious about letting users know the specific reasons for the removal of their material. Everybody does have a right to know why their material was removed. I am personally against shadow moderating, and I apologize when I have practiced this, either inadvertently, or by thinking that removal is all that is required in a particular instance.

    Woops! Sorry, that was me again. :oops: I didn't see the bit about wanting it to be kept in Rebooting. If this ever happens again, feel free to PM (or any other moderator). I am always open to reconsidering my decisions. Indeed I have done so before, in consultation with the other moderators.
    I was not the moderator who moved it, but I assumed it was because this thread dealt with issues concerning the NoFap community and the NoFap moderation team.

    In the end, I just want to echo @Yesodi. Our job is to make NoFap a safe, constructive and welcoming environment for anyone that struggles with compulsive pornography use. To that end, we have been given certain tools to take care of the grossest violations of the rules that threaten to darken the welcoming character of these forums. But this is not our job alone. Every single user on these forums can help us make NoFap.com the supportive and nurturing place it needs to be by not judging people by their race, gender, personal and political beliefs, or what they have confessed to doing in the past. Remember, we all came to this sight with our own degree of brokenness. That brokenness makes us all brothers and sisters, comrades in this fight against porn. Please remember your own brokenness, and don't let your need to be right, or to elevate yourself by berating others, interfere with the help you give to others on these forums. You can find other places on the Net if you need to stoke your ego by engaging in arguments and being "right." NoFap is a place of healing and discovery, not interpersonal combat.

    And lastly, I just want to thank all of you for being such an awesome community! It truly brings a smile to my mouth every morning to read all the encourage you give to each other, cheering each other on during the good times, encouraging each other and offering words of comfort during the bad times. Please keep being the awesome people you are. You are what makes the NoFap community great.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  9. GSarosi

    GSarosi Guest

    Bright side is that majority of the time the mods are just staying behind the scenes to make sure things are moving along slowly. Only issue I have is when they take a one sided view of things.
     
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  10. Star Lord

    Star Lord Fapstronaut

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    I still don't understand how the word insensitive can be abusive or offensive if its used as a descriptive of a personality trait when asked for a personality trait.
    It makes me not want to bother anymore because it seems people get offended by correct use of words.
    Fyi your one of the good mods. Plus you always confirm my avatar changes very quick thanks.
     
  11. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    I feel you may have missed the point RepentMySins. Your comment was not deleted because you said it was "insensitive" of the OP to point flaws in other people, but that you called him an "asshole" for doing so.

    One thing I do want to clarify is this quote of yours (as above). Again, I'll say that your original post on the thread that was deleted was not that bad, however it was just on the cusp of needing moderation, hence its deletion. I do not seek to change your opinions on the outcome of this situation. However, when posting replies to people- if you wish your advice to be constructive then it needs to clearly show such intent. As it says in the rules, criticism of users and nofap itself is allowed as long as it is constructive. Personally I think that it's difficult to perceive such intent in what you wrote. It is actually, your responsibility for what you write here. You say that if people can't read the "true" meaning in what you write then that's their problem. However, surely it is a reasonable of the reader to apparently misinterpret what you'd written if you had not made your intentions (of applying constructive criticism) clear in your post.
     
  12. IGY

    IGY Guest

    I must be honest and say that this thread illustrates that the ass-covering moderators are inconsistent and duplicitous. :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2017
  13. overclocked

    overclocked Fapstronaut

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    I wasn't pleased with some of the decisions of the moderators. But I and you should keep in mind that nofap dot com is probably the #1 place to get a picture of recovering porn addicts and non-masturbators for outsiders. So the mods do good by being a little extra careful.

    Imagine a journalist or a politician tries to find something out about people who quit masturbation, maybe in hopes of creating awareness and improving society. He/ she then comes across the "darkest thoughts" thread (I did not read it) and a user describes some graphic murder fantasies. The researcher has to think "Wow, this is intense. I don't want young men and women to dig any deeper. Let's just act this community does not exist"

    @RepentMySins I remember the thread and your post. I think it's obvious you wanted to contribute but I was kinda shocked that you called the OP an asshole.
    I had friends in school and we called each other names just to tease, no ill will. You probably have a similiar background. But others do not and they can get very offended if you treat them like that.
     
  14. BuddhaPunkRobotMonk

    BuddhaPunkRobotMonk Community Manager
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    I'd be very happy too, Surusm Corda. And no need to apologize. It was my fault for not explaining my decision. Do you by chance remember which section the deleted thread was in?
     
  15. I remember I once made a thread called "where was the weirdest places you've jerked off" in the off-topic section. It was honestly just for jokes but there were some people here who thought I got off on knowing where people fap lol Some of the mods gave me a warning about my choice of words in the tittle and I completely agree in hindsight. "Jerking off" should've been replaced with Fapping. I don't really have any issues with the moderators. I've been on this website for over a year now and the only concern I have is that there are a small amount of mods who power trip. For example, There was one person who got banned for making inside jokes with a rhyming rapping thread. I thought he should've at least got a warning instead of just banning him right away.
     
  16. Disgruntled Worker

    Disgruntled Worker Fapstronaut

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    I honestly would feel much better if every decision to delete posts was reviewed by Alexander. We don't know anything about the other mods. What they look or sound like or what their credentials are are all a mystery to us. We do know and trust the judgement of Alexander, however, who actually has it worse than getting paid nothing, losing money from his own pocket every year.

    I trust someone who is impartial and can read a comment in context rather than underlining key controversial words or subject matter. I also like mods who are genuine and real. Certain mods are actual human beings that GET IT. And other mods are just mindless, automatons that white knight absolutely every situation because they're cowards who are afraid to stir the pot or say something meaningful.

    I'm in the middle of telling Namekian23 he's a lazy fuck that needs to stop using NoFap as his bitching outlet for his problems and one of my comments was deleted. It's one thing to tell a person he's a loser to be mean. But when you're trying to actually help someone by lighting a fire under their ass, a mod has to be able to distinguish that.
     
  17. BuddhaPunkRobotMonk

    BuddhaPunkRobotMonk Community Manager
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    You can "light a fire under" someone's "ass", as you have put it, without using abusive or insulting language.
     
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  18. NoBrainer

    NoBrainer Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Hmm, I'm not sure you're referring to an instance of moderation that was handled by the current team, however we do not consider 'instant bans' to be an appropriate use of moderation power for any user (unless they're blatant spammers). It is likely that said user had a number of "previous warnings" for past offences. I am not sure that users can see this "previous warnings" section of a user's profile but moderators use it as a tool for reviewing a user's history, which can influence their decision when dealing with the current potential offence. The rhyming rapping probably wouldn't have been relevant to the offence, rather it would have been about the content of the jokes.

    It's valuable to hear your feedback anyway Lazarus. Cheers.
     
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  19. Dendrite

    Dendrite Fapstronaut

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    Might I suggest that if you want to "stir the pot" and "say something meaningful", there are plenty of other places on the internet that you could go to. Guilt, unhappiness, and stress are factors that lead many of us back into bad habits. What you see as being a "white knight", others see as being supportive and helpful.

    When you go to an AA meeting, you are challenged respectfully and constructively to change your habits and to become better. The same applies here. Attacking someone personally just makes them feel like shit which, predictably, makes them more likely to do shitty things.

    Edit: there are many people posting similar things on this thread, it seems, about freedom of speech and saying what you want and so on. There is a space for that in your journal, so start a journal. Everywhere else, if you don't have something constructive to say, maybe don't say anything at all. Rant about particular users in your journals instead. The "offtopic" set of forums is a "grey area" to "shoot the breeze", I understand, but there are still some rules there.

    Maybe think about it like this. If you are working at a suicide hotline, you still have freedom of speech. But you are an asshole if you tell someone "Jump, you're worthless". And then don't be surprised if, afterwards, you get fired from that suicide hotline. Similar to here, if you are in a public space, you have freedom of speech and if you are a jerk, then your post will probably get deleted and you might end up banned in the long run. I do not see why this should be surprising. Of course the moderators will come down hard when things are borderline - because the sobriety of the people here is more important than you getting your opinion across. We all have this goal of being clean, so let us help each other to do it together!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  20. Star Lord

    Star Lord Fapstronaut

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    Ah i see, well in that case that's fair I suppose. My choice of words was very conservative, but I sometimes fail to realise different people have varying degrees of hard skin.

    Again I suppose I forget that my often cryptic responses bewilder some to believe it with malicious intent, but I can see how some will find this more offensive than helpful.

    Well I know the rules of this site a little clearer now, and I'm glad I've been treated not as the criminal but more a victim of my own personality. I post somewhat controversial stuff that and I can be rather vague or blunt and rattles cages and can quite easily make people dislike me so I'm quite glad I've not been perceived as a bad user here, even in the eyes of the likes of yourself as a mod, and that you can understand what my intent was even though it was taken the wrong way, and I'm glad we could properly resolve this.
    Cheers @NoBrainer
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
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