Some things I don't get about evolution...

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Brokenman123, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Based on the evidence it seems that evolution is true but I don't understand how humans can have free will if we're evolved animals. Animals as far as we can tell don't have free will so why assume that humans as evolved animals would be any different from other animals and also if evolution is mainly about survival and passing on one's genes why do we see news stories frequently about parents killing their children? It makes no sense for parents to kill their children, if evolution is about the survival of one's genes.
     
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  2. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    And I know I might be saying this in vain but can we please have an open, calm discussion that doesn't devolve into name calling or ad hominem attacks, thanks.
     
  3. One Mic

    One Mic Fapstronaut

    Honestly, I would question whether we can say evolution exists at all and ask why you think evolution "seems" to be true before discussing the free-will side of it.

    I think you're onto something with your original post, though.
     
  4. There are a lot of holes in the evolution theory. I don't really want to list them all but a few are...

    Why are there two genders? Wouldn't both genders have to be evolving the same way at the same rate to pass on their new traits?
    What evolved first? The blood or the heart and veins to pump it?
    What evolved first? The lungs or the blood to carry the oxygen?
    What evolved first? The stomach to digest or the mouth to eat?

    There are more but these next ones I am not sure if they are true and are just things I have heard in the past. I don't feel like researching to see if they are right.
    Fossil dating methods can be unreliable
    Wet/soft tissue has been found in some dinosaur bones, telling that they may not be as old as previously thought.

    Now, I'm not saying that evolution is better or worse than religion because religion is just as hard to prove correct, but evolution seems to me like its not plausible.

    (Side note: I understand that microevolution is very possible, but macroevolution I believe isn't).
     
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  5. brilliantidiot

    brilliantidiot Temporarily Suspended

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    evolution is simply a theory, and a theory is a well-informed scientific guess. That being said, I tend to agree with evolution with a few glaring exceptions, in cases evolution can't account for (eg, the human soul). No matter how far back you go, you can't find animal cave art, and simple intelligence doesn't account for our sense of personal identity and morals. In some ways, "adaption" might be more what I believe in then evolution. I think it likely that we looked very different long ago, but I don't think there was ever a transition from a sentient animal to a sentient rational animal (human), without (sorry to bring this in) being given a soul by God.

    "frequent" might be true but not in comparison with the millions or children not killed.
     
  6. One Mic

    One Mic Fapstronaut

    You'd be right on both counts.
     
  7. EatCake

    EatCake Fapstronaut

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    Are all actions of living things caused by unavoidable occurrences preceding them? Are actions of animals & humans already determined?

    Or, as all living things have evolved, have their conscious understandings evolved as well? Do they consciously make choices with an unknown, but likely, result of said choice (undetermined/avoidable result)? Does their conscience play a role?

    So, if one were to agree with the theory of evolution & not agree with determinism, animals & humans both have free will.

    I personally think animals have free will. My dog consciously makes a choice to get in the trash when I'm gone. When I return to a disaster, he clearly knows he made a poor choice by hiding with his head hung low & big dog eyes looking pitifully at me. There is a moment of unspoken "I'm sorry, owner. I was mad you left". His conscience makes him feel bad about his free will to make a poor choice.
     
  8. Anubis Rises

    Anubis Rises Fapstronaut

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    I guess evolution is a slow process so slow we don't see it taking place, if we are to evolve to best suit our environment then why haven't I grown two more arms due to the perfession iam it or why haven't two more eye balls pop out our fore heard leading to four eyes so that two can stare at the cell phones an two making sure we don't drive into a wall or walk into a light post in which I witnessed one day, someones so stuck in there phone they walk into a poll I died laughing
     
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  9. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    I shall only contribute two things that I feel sum it up nicely.

    "You cannot go against nature
    Because when you do
    Go against nature
    It's part of nature too" - Love and Rockets

    "In ancient Rome
    There was a poem
    About a dog
    Who found two bones
    He picked at one
    He licked the other
    He went in circles
    He dropped dead" - Devo
     
  10. EatCake

    EatCake Fapstronaut

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    Free will vs. determinism. Creation vs. evolution. Religion vs. science.
     
  11. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    I think there's enough evidence for it... I trust the scientists who have rigourously tested it and have found it to be conclusive, they're experts so they should know what they're talking about.
     
  12. EatCake

    EatCake Fapstronaut

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    Not to judge or sidetrack, just trying to understand where you're coming from..you're atheist, right? I feel like I've seen you say that before. Religion or non-religious beliefs definitely play a part in how one perceives this topic. That's what makes the world go round, eh?
     
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  13. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    I think there are answers out there for some of your questions but with others scientists are still coming up with answers... they don't have everything figured out now but they're on their way to figuring out the answers. With respect to the dating methods and the wet/soft tissue problem, I think those have been dealt with already. And also micro and macroevolution are the same thing but just at different levels.
     
  14. One Mic

    One Mic Fapstronaut

    You're appealing to their authority and believe (emphasis on "believe") that because they claim they're experts, they know what they're talking about. They don't. Why would you let people who do not care about you tell you what the reality you're living in is without looking into it yourself?

    That's thinking like a religous person. Which is useless when it comes having an active pursuit of understanding the mechanics that govern our universe.
     
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  15. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    A theory is the closest thing in science to a fact... your definition of theory is closer to the layman, commonplace definition not the scientific one. Evolution has been studied and scrutinized more than any other theory and has been shown to be plausible... it has a lot of evidence to back it up.
    The notion of the human soul is an unfalsifiable proposition, so I'm not sure I agree that humans have or are souls.
    Define what you mean by personal identity, do you mean sense of self awareness and also evolution can account for morality... morality has been observed in other non-human social species as well. Without morality, no social species would survive, so evolution can account for the human sense of morality. That's not to say that a God couldn't have played a role in us having a moral sense but morality can be explained in natural evolutionary terms.
    Well adaptation is a part of evolution...
    Selection pressures could have dictated that humans develop intelligence and a sense of rationality in order to survive so it is possible to explain it naturally but again that also doesn't rule out the possibility that a God imbued us with those senses Himself, but as I said above the notion of the soul is an unfalsifiable proposition and so I don't know if it exists or not. Personally though from what I see, everything seems to take place in the brain only.
    I know but it still happens a lot and it doesn't make sense if evolution is true. Also, the fact that humans go to war and kill each other at all doesn't make sense from an evolutionary perspective.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  16. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    I think they're the same thing.
     
  17. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    What doesn't make sense? Selection is a nice way of saying people have to die for the superior to be "selected" right? I see it fitting right in with evolution. How else would things change?
     
  18. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    That's the big question or at least one of them... I've been struggling with it for a while now.
    I suppose so but I don't see how the two can be separated since science has recognized that animal behaviour is resultant from forces that are external to the animal and under which it is unaware and exercises no control over.
    Lol, cute, but IDK about him having free will... it's possible that his behaviour was learned and just an instinctive, predetermined reaction to stimuli or something.
     
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  19. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Lol maybe one day... in a future far, far, away, maybe what you say will be possible but we can't see it now since, as you said, it's a slow process.
     
  20. Brokenman123

    Brokenman123 Fapstronaut

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    Deep. I guess that makes sense.
    Sad and kinda depressing but I get the point lol.
     
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