Sometimes it does feel a little unfair.

[Deleted Account]

Sometimes it does feel a little unfair. Sex is definitely not an equal thing in relationships. In my relationship my wife can basically have sex whenever she wants. For me, not so much. I have read other’s experiences where the man doesn’t want it that much. In that case she can’t have it whenever she wants. It can be a challenge.
The low desire partner always gets more control because the NO always wins as Brené Brown says.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Sometimes it does feel a little unfair. Sex is definitely not an equal thing in relationships. In my relationship my wife can basically have sex whenever she wants. For me, not so much. I have read other’s experiences where the man doesn’t want it that much. In that case she can’t have it whenever she wants. It can be a challenge.
The low desire partner always gets more control because the NO always wins as Brené Brown says.

If you are in a healthy relationship both of you work towards a compromise. When you are in an unhealthy relationship it sinks to the lowest common denominator. At least that’s how mine is. I cannot make my partner be healthy. I cannot make him react in a healthy way. I can only control myself. His unhealthiness controls the level of health my marriage has. So, whoever has the most mental issues, the most physical issues, the most/addiction controls the relationship. Why would your wife want sex with you? I’m not trying to be mean, but it’s demoralizing to have sex with a sex addict and know he is using you. And your wife knew long before you confessed. If you had a healthy relationship where you had never used your wife but rather valued her I guarantee your sex life would’ve been better( barring any mental health issues/abuse in your wife) . There is always a reason one partner who wants sex less, becomes unwilling to work at pleasing the partner who wants it more. For me, my husband has IA and sex addiction. Sex is too intimate. And he cared more about his comfort than me or my needs. Once you use your wife, she becomes more interested in her comfort than your needs, especially when your needs were super fueled by porn and lust and made her shut down. If she’s still having sex with you at all then there is still hope. She probably rarely wants it though, porn addiction really ruins sex for everyone. Just something to think about -I’m assuming you have a faithful wife , that was what she wanted from you, faithfulness, loyalty, honesty and she didn’t get that. I’m sure she thinks this is very unfair. Instead if focusing on sex, how much she doesn’t give you, why don’t you focus on what she has given you? Show that you value her for more than a good lay.. I know, easier said than done. But it can be done. It’s just really hard. Gotta fill your time. I did very physical work and CrossFit 6 days a week. That helped a lot. Cold swims. ( don’t care for cold showers) I’d swim in November.

 

[hope4healing]

His unhealthiness controls the level of health my marriage has. So, whoever has the most mental issues, the most physical issues, the most/addiction controls the relationship.

This is so true but hard to accept...to know that, as long as you choose to stay in the marriage, it will essentially be controlled by his dysfunctions.

She probably rarely wants it though, porn addiction really ruins sex for everyone.

Another sad truth. I have always been someone with a high drive. Before my husband's addiction took over, we had sex at least 5-6 times a week. For years. I loved it and would've been happy for that to continue. However, it wasn't up to me because his addiction took control (although I didn't know until much later what the reason was for the sudden change.) I tried and tried for the longest time to "fix" a problem that I didn't know existed. Of course, I thought it was my fault so I tried everything I could think of to get us back to the way we were....and failed obviously.

After awhile, I still wanted things to be the way they'd been before. In fact, I've never stopped wanting that. However, after trying everything possible for so long and constantly being rejected, I couldn't even try to initiate anymore. It didn't matter how badly I wanted it...I couldn't keep setting myself up for the inevitable pain. It was a constant battle in my mind between really wanting our sex life back and knowing that it wasn't worth the risk of trying because of the pain caused by constant rejection. To this day, just the thought of me trying to initiate causes a trauma response despite the fact that I would still love for us to have sex the same as before the addiction got so bad.

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

I thought I had a high drive until I got married. Nothing we did was ever good enough or fun. It was always just him constantly pressing for more or different. We could never just enjoy something we both liked.
It was always moving me into positions that didn't feel good or keeping trying to do a thing I'd said no to, because he insisted to try and make me like it. I can count on one hand in 13 years of marriage how many times we had sex without me having to say no to something in it more than once (him going down on me was the usual. We tried it in the beginning, but he would never listen when I told him what did and didn't feel good, until eventually I just didn't want to try it anymore). In hindsight, he was puzzled I was not reacting the same way as porn actresses because eventually I realized he was trying to recreate dumb porn things.
It didn't feel good, it wasn't fulfilling, and there was no way to walk away from it without him upset unless I just laid there and let it hurt until it was over and pretended to enjoy it.

 

[Deleted Account]

I thought I had a high drive until I got married. Nothing we did was ever good enough or fun. It was always just him constantly pressing for more or different. We could never just enjoy something we both liked.
It was always moving me into positions that didn't feel good or keeping trying to do a thing I'd said no to, because he insisted to try and make me like it. I can count on one hand in 13 years of marriage how many times we had sex without me having to say no to something in it more than once (him going down on me was the usual. We tried it in the beginning, but he would never listen when I told him what did and didn't feel good, until eventually I just didn't want to try it anymore). In hindsight, he was puzzled I was not reacting the same way as porn actresses because eventually I realized he was trying to recreate dumb porn things.
It didn't feel good, it wasn't fulfilling, and there was no way to walk away from it without him upset unless I just laid there and let it hurt until it was over and pretended to enjoy it.

Your story unfortunately sounds a lot like mine except I was on the other side .
I didn’t know anything about sex except what I had seen in porn. I thought it was instructions because I was dumb. I also would seek info in other places like videos on how to have better sex. But she wasn’t interested in any of it. It just made her feel not good enough.
That is why I’ve come to a point where I let her initiate and I respond enthusiastically (which is easy to do).
I know what she likes now and doesn’t like and she says we are good at sex now. She just has never connected emotionally with sex. I have come to accept that. It is more physical for her and I don’t think that’s going to change unless she seeks treatment for her trauma. She claims it is all healed and doesn’t bother her. I guess because she has pushed it down.
I have apologized a million times for not considering her feelings and there were times when it was just as you said “ It didn't feel good, it wasn't fulfilling, and there was no way to walk away from it without him upset unless I just laid there and let it hurt until it was over and pretended to enjoy it.“
I wish I could take those times back. but all I can do is never do that again.
If she ever says no to something or just needs to stop no matter where we are. I immediately back off and not in anger. I try to get curious and ask if she wants to talk about it (the answer is always no) but I stay present and available unless she asks me to leave. If that is asked, I cooperate. So far that is super rare. She wants to finish since she is in it for the orgasm mostly anyway. But sometimes I feel some emotional connection. I think she can’t help it.
I am just never going to repeat the mistakes of the past, even if I can’t fix them.

 

[Deleted Account]

After awhile, I still wanted things to be the way they'd been before. In fact, I've never stopped wanting that. However, after trying everything possible for so long and constantly being rejected, I couldn't even try to initiate anymore. It didn't matter how badly I wanted it...I couldn't keep setting myself up for the inevitable pain. It was a constant battle in my mind between really wanting our sex life back and knowing that it wasn't worth the risk of trying because of the pain caused by constant rejection. To this day, just the thought of me trying to initiate causes a trauma response despite the fact that I would still love for us to have sex the same as before the addiction got so bad.

I had gotten the impression from your other posts that your husband was doing well in recovery. That hasn’t improved all aspects of your relationship, including sex?
Is there still rejection?

 

[Deleted Account]

So, whoever has the most mental issues, the most physical issues, the most/addiction controls the relationship. Why would your wife want sex with you? I’m not trying to be mean, but it’s demoralizing to have sex with a sex addict and know he is using you

I 100% agree with you. That’s why I’ve worked so hard on this particular aspect. I want to know in my heart that no matter what happens, I’m not having sex because I’m using it to soothe myself. It creates anxiety for me a little and limits my initiating sometimes. I have to ask myself “am I wanting sex to create connection or to soothe myself” if I’m not sure, I don’t initiate.

 

[Newwaters22]

If you are in a healthy relationship both of you work towards a compromise. When you are in an unhealthy relationship it sinks to the lowest common denominator. At least that’s how mine is. I cannot make my partner be healthy. I cannot make him react in a healthy way. I can only control myself. His unhealthiness controls the level of health my marriage has. So, whoever has the most mental issues, the most physical issues, the most/addiction controls the relationship. Why would your wife want sex with you? I’m not trying to be mean, but it’s demoralizing to have sex with a sex addict and know he is using you. And your wife knew long before you confessed. If you had a healthy relationship where you had never used your wife but rather valued her I guarantee your sex life would’ve been better( barring any mental health issues/abuse in your wife) . There is always a reason one partner who wants sex less, becomes unwilling to work at pleasing the partner who wants it more. For me, my husband has IA and sex addiction. Sex is too intimate. And he cared more about his comfort than me or my needs. Once you use your wife, she becomes more interested in her comfort than your needs, especially when your needs were super fueled by porn and lust and made her shut down. If she’s still having sex with you at all then there is still hope. She probably rarely wants it though, porn addiction really ruins sex for everyone. Just something to think about -I’m assuming you have a faithful wife , that was what she wanted from you, faithfulness, loyalty, honesty and she didn’t get that. I’m sure she thinks this is very unfair. Instead if focusing on sex, how much she doesn’t give you, why don’t you focus on what she has given you? Show that you value her for more than a good lay.. I know, easier said than done. But it can be done. It’s just really hard. Gotta fill your time. I did very physical work and CrossFit 6 days a week. That helped a lot. Cold swims. ( don’t care for cold showers) I’d swim in November.

I agree with you 100% and that is actually a very good point. Never thought of it in terms of the lowest common denominator. It puts words and shape to a thought, so I thank you for that.

Also, you mentioned about partners being "used". That is absolutely true as well, when we are having relapses I think it's unfair to have sex with partners because the mind is not in the moment but somewhere else, anything but present. This brings me to wonder what are the grounds when recovering? Partner is doing well, being off P for a while but having a frustrating day and also feeling sexually frustrated. The deed happens but it feels again like usage more than connection. Would this case be hurtful too? Would it bring feelings of betrayal and past trauma or the other way around where there is a comfort knowing the partner is comming to you instead of porn? I guess in the end it would come down to each couple how they take this, but I'm just curious on what's the take of other relationships on this subject

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

I


I agree with you 100% and that is actually a very good point. Never thought of it in terms of the lowest common denominator. It puts words and shape to a thought, so I thank you for that.

Also, you mentioned about partners being "used". That is absolutely true as well, when we are having relapses I think it's unfair to have sex with partners because the mind is not in the moment but somewhere else, anything but present. This brings me to wonder what are the grounds when recovering? Partner is doing well, being off P for a while but having a frustrating day and also feeling sexually frustrated. The deed happens but it feels again like usage more than connection. Would this case be hurtful too? Would it bring feelings of betrayal and past trauma or the other way around where there is a comfort knowing the partner is comming to you instead of porn? I guess in the end it would come down to each couple how they take this, but I'm just curious on what's the take of other relationships on this subject

Sex in a relationship with a sex addict has to be managed. It just does. On one had this is great to deepen your relationship, but on the other hand can make sex feel Un -spontaneous, not sexy at all, lol. We almost always talk before sex, exploring why sex now? Is he looking for connection or escape( dopamine). We also avoid too many times in a week. It’s really something you and your partner have to work out and agree on.

 

[Newwaters22]

Sex in a relationship with a sex addict has to be managed. It just does. On one had this is great to deepen your relationship, but on the other hand can make sex feel Un -spontaneous, not sexy at all, lol. We almost always talk before sex, exploring why sex now? Is he looking for connection or escape( dopamine). We also avoid too many times in a week. It’s really something you and your partner have to work out and agree on.

Yep it defitnely takes some of that adrenaline factor out of the equation... At the same time I'm just very happy we are in a better place now and I hope I don't make her feel like I'm having sex with a porn star again. Sometimes I stop to think what I had put my wife through and i don't think a lifetime would be enough to repay her patience and loyalty. I was reading crushed and leaving statement above and I felt horrified thinking maybe that was me. I feel I'm in the same boat than Thor, I don't want to be that person and i don't want to put her through that.

Re-educating ourselves as addicts is definetly a life time journey and learning how to actually have sex in a relationship can be a challenge. Don't think most of us knew any better than doing it for O or escape. Personally at the end of the day I'm glad I chose for a better life than ten seconds of pleasure because the latter freaking blows. We have been unfair to our partners in the past but we have the option to be fair to them everyday moving on and that's possible because in their kindness they didn't give us a second chance but a million more chances. It's pay back time lol

 

[Warfman]

I thought I had a high drive until I got married. Nothing we did was ever good enough or fun. It was always just him constantly pressing for more or different. We could never just enjoy something we both liked.
It was always moving me into positions that didn't feel good or keeping trying to do a thing I'd said no to, because he insisted to try and make me like it. I can count on one hand in 13 years of marriage how many times we had sex without me having to say no to something in it more than once (him going down on me was the usual. We tried it in the beginning, but he would never listen when I told him what did and didn't feel good, until eventually I just didn't want to try it anymore). In hindsight, he was puzzled I was not reacting the same way as porn actresses because eventually I realized he was trying to recreate dumb porn things.
It didn't feel good, it wasn't fulfilling, and there was no way to walk away from it without him upset unless I just laid there and let it hurt until it was over and pretended to enjoy it.

Definite truth to what your saying. I did this as well. Though I can say things were different with my wife I think. I'm not exactly sure why, maybe it was the fact she was the first woman to actually say, hey this didn't feel good and I like it like this. I learned a lot sexually from her in those ways. Honestly I don't think I've tried recreating anything in a P scene with her other than one time I know I did the first time we were intimate. Maybe it was that we did connect emotionally on a different level than anyone else I've dated.

I think though what I did in response to my wife telling me exactly what she liked was fully repress every desire I had and do exactly what she liked. Because even though I obviously was acting exactly as you described and thought that's what good sex was, it caused me to feel rejected and I didn't want that feeling again. It was easier to just change myself and ignore what I liked. I don't think I've ever allowed myself to actually say what I like sexually because I haven't known what I like and don't like. What is P induced and what is a desire I actually have? It really screws that up for a person internally and it's a battle of trying to straighten a lot of that out.

My wife hasn't been one to have sex 5 or 6 times a week. Except maybe early on when we were dating. Starting NOFAP I had decided that I thought 2 times a week would be fair compromise in the future. Funny enough, hard mode is revealing to me that I'm not sure I have to have it that much. I of course want it and more often than twice wouldn't upset me one bit. But, it seems like I can easily handle 2 weeks of no urges without any problem. It feels good to not feel beholden to my addictive urges like I think I always have. It just takes the pressure off of the whole situation, and I think pressure is a huge issue a p addict and their partners struggle with.

I still think I will struggle with putting this "pressure" on the situation. Which is something I don't want, I think there's a lot still to work on in this area for me.

EDIT: I also think that in the moments of repressing what I thought I wanted I would end up feeling as though my needs were neglected. This I think was sometimes true. But more often a false notion. I thought because I was repressing what I wanted or thought I wanted that I was not getting my needs met. This I'm finding is very much a lie I told myself and actually caused quite a problem because I would choose addiction over openly talking about what I desired from my wife. I literally took that opportunity for intimacy off the table for us. Unfortunately I don't think I could ever do this properly while addicted to P.

 

[hope4healing]

I had gotten the impression from your other posts that your husband was doing well in recovery. That hasn’t improved all aspects of your relationship, including sex?
Is there still rejection?

I wouldn't say my husband is doing well in recovery. Actually, he isn't in "recovery" at all. He has abstained from acting out with P for over a year (as far as I know), but that is all. Of course, I'm happy about that, but abstinence does not equal recovery. He's abstained for lengths of time before...but with no recovery work ever done, it's just a matter of time before it all falls back into the addiction.

Except this time I know better. I know what recovery means and the difference between that and sobriety. I won't let myself be fooled into believing everything is all better and PA is in the past to stay like I have so many times before. He thinks his work is done. Like many addicts, he wants to believe he's different and that he can just choose to never act out again....after repeating this cycle for almost 30 years....and that's all he has to do.

Conveniently for him, by thinking that way, in his mind it puts the burden back on me for why our marriage is still broken. If I would "just forgive him and move on," or "quit living in the past and recognize he doesn't do that anymore".... Oddly enough, I believe that my refusal to fall back into the trap is part of the reason he's still abstaining, and if I suddenly started getting comfortable again, it would all fall apart. Again. So, for now, we're just stuck.

I should mention, too, that although he isn't currently using P, there's still a significant amount of p-subs that he considers 'harmless' even though they clearly aren't.

 

[Deleted Account]

I wouldn't say my husband is doing well in recovery. Actually, he isn't in "recovery" at all. He has abstained from acting out with P for over a year (as far as I know), but that is all. Of course, I'm happy about that, but abstinence does not equal recovery. He's abstained for lengths of time before...but with no recovery work ever done, it's just a matter of time before it all falls back into the addiction.

Except this time I know better. I know what recovery means and the difference between that and sobriety. I won't let myself be fooled into believing everything is all better and PA is in the past to stay like I have so many times before. He thinks his work is done. Like many addicts, he wants to believe he's different and that he can just choose to never act out again....after repeating this cycle for almost 30 years....and that's all he has to do.

Conveniently for him, by thinking that way, in his mind it puts the burden back on me for why our marriage is still broken. If I would "just forgive him and move on," or "quit living in the past and recognize he doesn't do that anymore".... Oddly enough, I believe that my refusal to fall back into the trap is part of the reason he's still abstaining, and if I suddenly started getting comfortable again, it would all fall apart. Again. So, for now, we're just stuck.

I should mention, too, that although he isn't currently using P, there's still a significant amount of p-subs that he considers 'harmless' even though they clearly aren't.

Oh wow. I’m so sorry. I guess I got a totally wrong impression.
I think if my wife hadn’t disconnected the way she did and held her ground, I wouldn’t have taken it seriously either. I feel like I’ve done a lot more than just get sober. I have friends that know about my weakness and we talk regularly. Sometimes it’s just about wives and life and stuff, but I try to be as honest as I can with them about all of the stuff I have done and why my wife has reasons to be angry. I try to be as honest as possible with my therapist as well but she seems to think I need to stand up for myself more and set boundaries so it’s hard for me to convince her that it’s reasonable to be patient and give my wife more time. Either way it’s my choice and that’s what I’m going to do.
I do feel like I’ve made a ton of progress from, say, 15 years ago. But there is always improvement to make.
One of the best things my wife did was just not care. It forced me to decide what I was ok with. She wasn’t going to police my M or P or Psubs. She didn’t want to know if I relapsed. She just wasn’t going to be involved and she didn’t trust me.
So I got to work in myself. I wasn’t ok with P or M. I started noticing Psubs where I hadn’t before. I set controls on my phone and around Instagram. If I paid too much attention to a girls picture. I asked myself why. If it was trying to soothe, I would ban myself for a week. It seemed to put a hold on any escalation. I’ve had to do that a few times. But it’s helped me be honest. Sometimes the honest truth is I’m interested in the subject at hand. In that case my conscience is clear. In other cases not do much. I have to give myself consequences. I notice I was looking at some woman walking for a little too long. I don’t want to be that guy. I avert my eyes any think about something else. But it’s all on me. She doesn’t check on it. She doesn’t ask. She doesn’t want to know. So it’s all for me. But I have to say, it feels really good to have freedom and responsibility and to be proud of how I act.
I discuss slips with my therapist. We try to learn from them and look for healthy ways to meet the need. It’s been great. But had my wife been willing to be my policeman and I could just rely on her conscience instead of developing my own, I don’t know if I would be on this path…

I guess the biggest thing that gives me confidence I’m not just working sobriety and not recovery is that I would be doing the same things if I were single. If my wife left me tomorrow, my goals and dailies and sources of connection wouldn’t change.