SOs, what are you most angry about?

[Psalm27:1my light]

Thanks for the sources. We I’ve read and listened to books about how to improve myself , but not much about her stuff.
I have listened to all of the podcast episodes of The Betrayed, Addicted, and Expert a couple of times. That’s where I’ve gotten most of my knowledge about betrayal trauma.
I’ll have to check out the ones you recommend.

If you do get into long term recovery, make the changes necessary to support sobriety and recovery, and she still will not seek help or has not moved forward, then your only option might be to make a boundary with her. Telling her you cannot remain married if she will not invest into her healing and the relationship. Sometimes that’s the only option you have or deciding to accept your relationship the way it is. But healing from intimate partner betrayal is very difficult and takes a lot of work and time. Just as addiction has changed your brain your betrayal changed hers.

 

[used19]

I am angry that he lied about me being the only one he wanted sexually. The only one he looked at or thought about. Angry that he lied about ever wanting to look at porn. Angry that any time I caught him looking at someone when we were out that he lied. That he lied about watching shows on tv because of the plot. I'm angry that he lied to let me believe that he was a one in a million kind of wholesome man, devout in his faith and faithful to his vows. I'm angry that he let me believe my body was all he needed and wanted. I'm angry that he let me think his orgasm was only with me. I am angry about all the times he badgered me about having the newest iphones only to go used them in our home to look at porn. I am angrily disgusted that he chose pmo over developing our sexual relationship. Angry that he used me as an excuse that porn was as good as he was going to have (this was the lie he told himself when he was such a jerk and so disconnected that I didn't even want him to hug me anymore). I am angry that I've worked myself to the bone mothering children, survived through crap his family through at me, and all the nastiness he threw my way, but every time something difficult happened to him, he went to porn instead of seeking solace in his wife.

And I'm angry that now, after all of this, he expects me to believe once again that I'm actually his everything. I'm angry that he expects to have gotten his cake and eat it too.

And I'm angry because I still love him.

 

[Deleted Account]

Sounds like you have a lot of reasons to be angry and lying seems to be the main one

I didn’t really understand this part though.

Angry that he used me as an excuse that porn was as good as he was going to have (this was the lie he told himself when he was such a jerk and so disconnected that I didn't even want him to hug me anymore).

Could you say more about that?

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Sounds like you have a lot of reasons to be angry and lying seems to be the main one

I didn’t really understand this part though.


Could you say more about that?

I believe it was because she didn’t want sex with him while he was acting like a jerk, so he rationalized that porn was the best he’d get… men don’t understand what asses they are while using. Many women shut down sexually because of their spouses/partners actions and behaviors while using. Even when the women had no idea about the porn use.

 

[used19]

Could you say more about that?

I believe it was because she didn’t want sex with him while he was acting like a jerk, so he rationalized that porn was the best he’d get… men don’t understand what asses they are while using. Many women shut down sexually because of their spouses/partners actions and behaviors while using. Even when the women had no idea about the porn use.

Psalm has summed up what I meant pretty well. In our timeline he had a period of usage early on while we were dating. Then was better for a long time while we were married. Then he started again after being exposed to an inappropriate show we would have never watched but he had access to through his work. He turned into a complete jerk - disconnected, angry all the time. If you look at pictures of him during that time period he looks like he's on drugs, completely detached. We still had some sex but it was only when I initiated it, maybe 1-2x a month. In his warped mind he convinced himself that I didn't love nor want him and that I probably was only staying because of our children. While I was pulling away more and I was really unhappy, it was a reaction to the distance he created, I felt completely unloved. So he convinced himself that pmo was all he was going to get, I would never find out, so it was ok. The reality is that he created a giant distance between us because of what he was doing. He wasn't talking about anything. He was angry and seething all the time. He wasn't initiating sex ever. He was living and vibrant at work, but dead inside at home. He couldn't see that he was causing it all. He does now, and now we are getting into a really good place that hopefully will continue to improve the more locked in he is to permanent change and the more I heal. He is furious at himself for creating the problems in the first place. So at least on this particular point, we're both mad at him.

 

[Deleted Account]

Psalm has summed up what I meant pretty well. In our timeline he had a period of usage early on while we were dating. Then was better for a long time while we were married. Then he started again after being exposed to an inappropriate show we would have never watched but he had access to through his work. He turned into a complete jerk - disconnected, angry all the time. If you look at pictures of him during that time period he looks like he's on drugs, completely detached. We still had some sex but it was only when I initiated it, maybe 1-2x a month. In his warped mind he convinced himself that I didn't love nor want him and that I probably was only staying because of our children. While I was pulling away more and I was really unhappy, it was a reaction to the distance he created, I felt completely unloved. So he convinced himself that pmo was all he was going to get, I would never find out, so it was ok. The reality is that he created a giant distance between us because of what he was doing. He wasn't talking about anything. He was angry and seething all the time. He wasn't initiating sex ever. He was living and vibrant at work, but dead inside at home. He couldn't see that he was causing it all. He does now, and now we are getting into a really good place that hopefully will continue to improve the more locked in he is to permanent change and the more I heal. He is furious at himself for creating the problems in the first place. So at least on this particular point, we're both mad at him.

Oh that makes sense. I just didn’t understand the wording at first. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[used19]

Oh I will also add, I had no idea he was using. I did not find out until after he had quit and I caught him in several lies because he left receipts out on the counter from a work trip. I assumed he was having an affair. He was not but when I demanded he tell me any other lies he was hiding or else if I discovered them on my own I was out the door. He came clean then, but he had been sober for maybe 4-6 months. So just goes to show in all of that that I knew something was horribly wrong the whole time. I just couldn't find it.

 

[Deleted Account]

Oh I will also add, I had no idea he was using. I did not find out until after he had quit and I caught him in several lies because he left receipts out on the counter from a work trip. I assumed he was having an affair. He was not but when I demanded he tell me any other lies he was hiding or else if I discovered them on my own I was out the door. He came clean then, but he had been sober for maybe 4-6 months. So just goes to show in all of that that I knew something was horribly wrong the whole time. I just couldn't find it.

I hadn’t M for about 2.5 years before I told my wife. It wasn’t as much about PMO as FMO with me. But the affects were similar on my brain.
I had quit but things weren’t getting better between us and I couldn’t figure out why. So I asked myself, “Have I done everything I can?” And the answer was no, I could disclose to her and to some of my friends and start living authentic. She was really mad and says she wishes I never told her. It was extremely embarrassing to tell everyone. But I feel like it was still worth it. It gave me peace. I can’t believe that she REALLY doesn’t want to know. But either way that’s where we are now.
And in truth things are better, if just a little.

 

[used19]

Sounds like you have a lot of reasons to be angry and lying seems to be the main one

Well, yes, but mostly all the lies around sexual things. I've come to find out he's lied, both directly and by omission, about many things. It's the sexual lies, and thus the resulting manipulation of my reality, that hurt the most and drive the depth of my trauma. The sexual lies shatter our wedding vows, my self-esteem, every physically intimate moment we shared.
We've been together since we were 18, we've never been with anyone else ever. So lying in that arena was a much bigger deal than it probably is in couples who have a more complex history.

 

[used19]

She was really mad and says she wishes I never told her. It was extremely embarrassing to tell everyone. But I feel like it was still worth it. It gave me peace. I can’t believe that she REALLY doesn’t want to know. But either way that’s where we are now.
And in truth things are better, if just a little.

Well I mean she probably didn't want to know. No one wants the pain of having her world shattered. There are some days where I wish I didn't know. To have my blissful mind back. To not have a brain broken by trauma. To not be ashamed that my marriage that seemed "perfect" actually wasn't and to boot I had no clue. BUT the only way for him to kick this thing for good is for him to lead an integrated life. He had no shot getting into recovery until he went through the process of telling me everything and realizing that I'm still here and still love him. To not hold any shame any longer.

I'm sorry that she is struggling. It's a hard burden to find yourself stuck with. Hopefully the more she sees you change and recover, she will be open to seeing that you can't fully recover without her knowing the truth.

 

[Deleted Account]

he went through the process of telling me everything and realizing that I'm still here and still love him

That’s awesome! wish I could have that

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

That’s awesome! wish I could have that

Your wife hasn’t left you and she’s angry. You have it, you just don’t realize it. Had she left, or if she didn’t care, then you would know you didn’t have it. My husband had a girlfriend cheat on him, when I asked why he took it so well( we were friends at the time) he said “ I just didn’t really care. It didn’t matter, because she didn’t mean anything to me”. Your wife cares a lot. She hasn’t left. However, she may never get past the betrayal, many don’t. Love cannot conquer all. Sometimes what you’ve done is just too painful and damaging. She has to be willing to risk letting you hurt her again. It’s not an easy thing to do no matter how much you love someone.

 

[Warfman]

That’s awesome! wish I could have that

https://podcasts.focusonthefamily.c...alled-marriage/spiritual-warfare-in-marriage/

I'm not sure if you are Christian, so if not I apologize if you aren't interested in this content. But this episode really hit home to me the other day. So often I take things and convince myself that because of them my wife couldn't possibly love me, and think she doesn't want the marriage to work. This episode talks about that battle.

 

[nayexcuses]

@Thor God of Thunder what makes you think that your wife has betrayal trauma? You had an understanding in your marriage that porn use and masturbation is considered cheating/not allowed?

 

[Deleted Account]

@Thor God of Thunder what makes you think that your wife has betrayal trauma? You had an understanding in your marriage that porn use and masturbation is considered cheating/not allowed?

It was understood that it wasn’t acceptable behavior. Idk if it is considered cheating. She says she is angry that I didn’t disclose my struggle with M before we married. Porn came later but she told me she didn’t like it or want to watch it with me. So when I did view it I went underground. She feels betrayed because I used her for sex. I got my worth from it so I was consuming her instead of living her. Pouting, whining, acting like a child to try and manipulate her into taking care of me sexually. That was early I our marriage and hadn’t happened for years but she’s still angry about it. She feels like I blamed her for our problems when I knew they were really mine. In actuality I didn’t have the self-awareness to realize what my problems were. Still she feels I deceived her, gaslighted, blamed, and destroyed her self esteem on purpose.
For sure I did that. I can own that. And it was abusive. AND I honestly had no awareness that was what I was doing.
i thought my problem was that I couldn’t stop touching my penis. that’s all I was focused on fixing for years.
monotony during the last 10 years have I gradually started becoming an adult and acting like it.

 

[KevinesKay]

It was understood that it wasn’t acceptable behavior. Idk if it is considered cheating. She says she is angry that I didn’t disclose my struggle with M before we married. Porn came later but she told me she didn’t like it or want to watch it with me. So when I did view it I went underground. She feels betrayed because I used her for sex. I got my worth from it so I was consuming her instead of living her. Pouting, whining, acting like a child to try and manipulate her into taking care of me sexually. That was early I our marriage and hadn’t happened for years but she’s still angry about it. She feels like I blamed her for our problems when I knew they were really mine. In actuality I didn’t have the self-awareness to realize what my problems were. Still she feels I deceived her, gaslighted, blamed, and destroyed her self esteem on purpose.
For sure I did that. I can own that. And it was abusive. AND I honestly had no awareness that was what I was doing.
i thought my problem was that I couldn’t stop touching my penis. that’s all I was focused on fixing for years.
monotony during the last 10 years have I gradually started becoming an adult and acting like it.

You can't change the past. You can only learn from it and decide to be a better person for the future. Sounds like you've come a long way. I see that. Our loved ones are not going to be so understanding. Don't expect them to.

 

[MintGreen]

Foremost I am angry that when I pleaded with him to tell me the truth, my boundary was no more lies, I felt a relationship based on lies is not worth having, he carried on lying, over and over, for another year.
I really, really do not like what he chose to look at - some it goes against my values in terms of respect and how other human beings should be treated.
It's only through counselling I have gained an understanding of what led him to lie and be drawn to watch what he did, although some of what gets filmed in the name of 'entertainment' still haunts me.
Whilst his behaviour continues to trigger issues I have around self esteem, I know that his use of p is not a reflection of me.
And although his behaviour makes me upset and angry, and to some degree always will, I am learning to manage my feelings. I am confident that if he can carry on being honest with me we will work through this.

 

[Warfman]

I can't speak for my wife. But, my judgment of the situation is that the duration of the addiction plays a huge roll, along with whether it's self confessed or caught in the act, the repetitiveness of relapses and the duration of that struggle from that others have expressed seem to make the damage much much worse. Continual promises to change that result in more lying would be really hard I'm sure.

My wife seems upset with the symptoms of my addiction more than the cheating aspect of it. Though both are hurtful. I think this may be because we are still young perhaps. I'm in the unique situation of being able to make the choice now to make the next 35 years of marriage great or not so great.

Something else we are both experiencing currently is reverting back to how things used to be. Arguments for example, I think it becomes a habit to respond to each other in certain ways. Breaking those habits is hard and takes repetition to break just like the addiction does.

It's hard not to take those moments where the relationship improvement is derailed as our spouse not loving us or that nothing will ever change. It's important to identify those moments and steer things back on the correct path.

 

[Deleted Account]

One encouraging thing is I’ve noticed how far back my wife has to go to bring something up she’s angry about. One day I said that when she was rehashing a stupid comment I made 25years ago.
“ I still wish I could take that comment back. It was unkind and I never should have said it. I’m sorry. I am glad though that you have to reach back so many years to find something like that. It gives me hope that I’m making changes”

 

[CrushedandLeaving]

I'm most angry that my choices were taken away. I would not have married someone who watched porn and even back then, I knew I was making my dating pool microscopic....but I was okay with that. I was not in a real hurry.

We'd talked about it. We were both super young when we got married and had the rare opportunity to build our sexual dynamic from literally just us with no past baggage. We both agreed that porn was exploitative and unhealthy and that neither of us would use it.

Over a decade later I found out that the entire life we'd built had been fake. My 20s were eaten by his lies and I'll never get them back. It's more than 33% of my current lifetime lost just because I trusted someone.