Stressed out and confused about sex with wife

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by JustADude, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    I had a breakthrough with the wife yesterday. What a relief!

    In one of the posts above I wrote:
    "2. I believe that my wife will come around, given the right motivation, given enough time, etc. I don't know what the proper course of action is to get there, but it will happen."

    She didn't let me down! Kisses her way :)

    We finally talked though everything. She let her guard down. She even let me tell her about details about my porn addiction that she had previously avoided hearing. All of it was good. 5 years ago, this whole fiasco would have taken 3 weeks to resolve, that is progress BABY!

    The result of the conversation is that she said she will consider the idea of bringing in outside advice about how to improve the intimacy in our marriage, but that she wasn't ready to read a book. She said she didn't mean it a few days ago when she said she didn't want me looking outside the marriage for advice, that she was just emotional when she said that. I am going to find a proper book on the topic (suggestions?) and read it, and she said she is would be ok with me sharing any insightful passages in the book with her. She even recommended I get the kindle version so that it would be easier for me to electronically share things with her. We talked about what kinds of books would be most interesting... like I said, it was a good day :)

    I'll keep you all updated and thanks for your support. If you have any relationship book recommendations about building intimacy within a marriage, please send them my way.

    One more revelation I had while my wife and I were talking... I know I want more intimacy... meaning, I want to feel more emotionally connected to my wife, but... I realized I really don't know how to do that... like, I don't have a good set of tools in brain on how to go from point A to point B. It is like I have only a hammer(sex), but in my marriage I need a hammer, a screw driver, some pliers, an apron, a fly swatter, and a curling iron. I both don't have any of those other things and even if I did, I would have no idea what they were or how to use them. Weird thing is... I don't think my wife knows how to be intimate either, but, I believe she is in denial of that fact. My proof is... if I ask her how we can be more intimate, she is just as clueless as me, and the fact that her upbringing and parents are very similar to mine.
     
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  2. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Yay progress . My faves are cupids poison arrow, tantric sex for men, and 8 dates. The first two focus on building intimacy in other ways than goal orientated sex, the last is about building intimacy by getting to know each other better. Read the blurb and see what you think.
     
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  3. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    ..and the one I am reading now ,tantric love, feeling vs emotion.
     
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  4. GID2020

    GID2020 Fapstronaut

    Have you done the 5 love language quiz? Maybe that could get you guys started on understanding how each of you both show and receive love best. Could be fun to try on Valentine's day too.:)
    https://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/couples/

    I thought it was just a little hokey but it's sweet. My husband and I share the same love language, which I figured because we are very compatible. Anyway, it might give you both some insights into each other. Plus, it's an activity that's non sexual that might help your wife open up a little more.

    I see a lot of questions on intimacy on here. Seems to me that intimacy is about being vulnerable. If you cant be vulnerable, it's hard to be REALLY intimate.. just my opinion though.

    I'm so happy for your breakthrough with your wife. That's really great. :):) Keep going!!:)
     
  5. Real Roboin

    Real Roboin Fapstronaut

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    Have you tried little things, like giving eachother massages? Baths together? Washing eachothers hair? Baths together really helped me feel more secure, eyes open, lights on.... etc
     
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  6. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    Thanks for the suggestion. I am not sure she is ready for that type of thing yet. She has told me she doesn't like hokey things with respect to working on our marriage. But, I am hoping her opinion on those types of things evolves as we talk about our intimacy problems more.

    She won't massage me, I'll come back to that because it is an interesting story. We used to have sex in the shower occasionally, it has not happened in a long time, I am not sure what changed, I will make a point of asking her about that, hopefully she will be willing to give me an answer. We have an old timey claw foot tub, so, baths together are not really an option, considering I am a burly dude and it is big enough for just me.

    Back to the massage thing. She likes when I give her massages, she has back problems and she always appreciates a deep tissue massage. She has never asked me to give her an intimate massage. She has not given me a massage in 12 years. Why? Because when we first got married we didn't have a lot of sex, but she would give me massages instead. FYI, I was much more emotionally immature back then and insecure and other stuff. We got to a point where she would basically give me a massage every night and I would give her one. I would not want her to stop, and would frequently get pouty when she would only give me a massage for a short amount of time or refuse to give me one at all. I am not proud of how I acted at those times. One day she said she was never going to give me a massage again. She might have given me 1 massage in the past 12 years when I hurt my back, I can't really remember. Anyway, I don't know what to think about that. Thanks for the question though, it brought up some interesting memories.
     
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  7. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    Reposting most of my journal entry into this thread because it is very relevant to the topic at hand.

    For the past 3 or 4 days I have thought about having sex with my wife multiple times a day. I kept those thoughts to myself. A few weeks ago, I would have been all over my wife during that time (a.k.a. being handsy) in an effort to get her in the mood. But, I have been planning to read a book about healthy ways to improve marital intimacy. I want to read that book before I continue to venture blindly into my marriage's intimacy problems. I have not bought a book yet because I wanted to finish reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (which I finished yesterday). Back to the story, for 3 or 4 days, I have been thinking about having sex with my wife and have been keeping the thoughts to myself. My wife has been unavailable for various reasons and tonight was the first night she was available for having sex. She didn't seem like she was in the mood when we went to bed, so I hoped maybe we could just lay next to each other together.

    I wasn't feeling any anxiety yet and I just wanted to feel close to her, so I thought I would be direct and ask for that. I asked her when she came to bed "You should come over here and lay next to me.". Which I am 99.9% sure she knew meant "I want you to come to my side of the bed and hold me and be next to me". I wanted her to come to me, which would be a sign that she wanted to be close to me. I could go to her, but then I might be forcing closeness upon her when she was not in the mood. She said, "We are in the same bed, I am close to you", then turned her back to me and proceeded to go to sleep. I started feeling my anxiety well up and decided the best thing I could do is tell her how I feel without accusing her of anything or asking her to do anything for me. Sort of like... just get things off my chest in a healthy way. So I said:

    Me: "I want to talk to you"
    Her: "OK, what do you want?"
    Me: "I don't feel close to you"
    -10 second pause-
    Her: "I don't know what to think about that, it is late at night and we are tired and we probably shouldn't try to solve this now"
    Me Internally: (I agree it is late and we are tired and we shouldn't solve this now, I still want her to do something to make me feel better)
    -long pause-
    Me Internally: (I think the long pause is because she wants me to say something, but I can't think of anything healthy to say)
    Me: "I don't have anything else to say"
    -Really long awkward pause, maybe 5 minutes-
    Me Internally: (Is she going to say something, why hasn't she rolled over and put her eye mask on and stuff yet... awkward, I am not saying anything, I hope she isn't waiting for me to talk)
    Her: She finally rolls over and does her pre-sleep routine and falls asleep.
    Me Internally: (My anxiety started going up fast. I meditated for like 30 or 45 minutes until it had passed.)

    I don't know what to think about all of that. I definitely want to talk to my wife today about what happened. I think I want to tell her that I have been bottling up desire to have sex with her and that I don't know if that is the right thing. A goal of mine today is to pick an intimacy book, buy it, and start reading it by the end of the day.

    Any insights or thoughts on this encounter are always welcome. Also, any book recommendations would be appreciated too. Thanks to @Nicko Stretch for the recommendations he already provided.
     
  8. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Hi! Even if your wife won’t read the 5 love languages, if you read it you can easily identify both your language and hers. Here”s how, everyone tends to “ speak” naturally their own love language. My husbands is gift giving and words of affirmation. He always brings me little gifts and constant compliments me ( words of affirmation). Mine is physical touch and acts of service. I touch my people constantly. I put my leg across my husbands in bed, hug everyone first thing in the morning etc. I also” do” things for people ( acts of service). One birthday I told my husband that the best gift would be if he helped me clean out the barn, lol. Once you see her love language then you can show her by speaking it.
     
  9. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    @Psalm27:1my light and @GID2020
    I will be looking into the 5 love languages today.

    If I am understanding the concept properly. 1st, learn each other's love languages. 2nd, when you are feeling unloved, check and see if your partner is showing love but through their love language, thus making it hard for you to recognize it. 3rd, try to express love using your partner's love language, as they will appreciate the gesture much more.

    That makes sense. I wonder though, it must be very difficult for some people to use another's love language... for example, if my wife is not very physically loving, then asking her to use that love language must be terribly uncomfortable.
     
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  10. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    @Nicko Stretch
    Regarding your book recommendation, "Cupid's Poisoned Arrow". This seems like it may be too advanced for my wife and I. Do you agree with that statement?

    I worry that the book is already talking about evolving past normal sex into karezza, but in my marriage, we are struggling even talking about sex. Is that a fair representation of the book?

    EDIT: I find the book intriguing, due to its focus on scientific evidence and its unique perspective, so I am hoping I am wrong about it being too advanced for the current state of my marriage.
     
  11. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    Yes! That’s exactly it. My husband bringing me gifts and complimenting me does very little to make me feel loved, but I recognize that he is trying to show me love when he does that. In the same way, when I make him dinner or lunch or “ do” something for him, it doesn’t make him feel loved but if I compliment him or praise him then he’s ecstatic! Ironically, because physical touch is my top love language I hug, kiss, initiate sex all the time! That’s not his language though so it doesn’t really make him feel loved that I do that. But compliments and little gifts make his day!
     
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  12. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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    Not at all too advanced. Yes, it talks about kerreza but most of it is about how we fall in and out of love .It dispels myths and offers alternative perspectives based on evidence.
     
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  13. Real Roboin

    Real Roboin Fapstronaut

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    I think you have a miss consept of karezza, its like foreplay before sex. What is normal sex to you, or beyond normal sex? No want to trigger but sex should be more than get hard and off.
     
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  14. Jonnyb4

    Jonnyb4 Fapstronaut

    Read through the whole thread and there was so much to reply to our comment on its kinda hard to pick them all out. Really though, nothing too insightful that hadn't already been said.

    I can relate to your position and while not as extreme as yours have been in similar situations with my wife where she's not open to talk about sex or intimacy our fantasies etc. Also doesn't like me touching her "down there" and only very recently I was able to give her oral. We've been married nearly 17 years.

    I too picked up in the lack of childhood support around sexual topics and it seems about relationships in general, for both of you. Something I think is having an impact and may need me professional help to work through.

    And also the potential for some kind of abuse in her past as well that is creating that block to intimacy. Any issues for you on that side too? No need to discuss on here if your didn't want to, but if there was then you need to work on that as well. Speaking from experience in that front, and I hear a lot of my own thoughts in your posts that's all.

    I'm glad you've had the mini breakthrough and been able to open up to each other. Quitting the pmo will definitely help you both so stick with it, the urges and feeling like needing sex will reduce. I was the same; high libido, pmo was a release as I didn't get it enough etc etc. 80 days clean now and it is all much better.

    What were the things that created the environment which allowed her to open up with you? Analyse that maybe and see if you can recreate it regularly. Not even to bring up more sexual conversations but just to build her confidence in feeling like she could talk more.

    And lastly that love language thing sounds great, I'm gonna go have a look at it now. Keep us posted on it.
     
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  15. GID2020

    GID2020 Fapstronaut

    That's so good that you can recognize that it could be difficult for your wife to use a love language that you might favor. You may surprised at what your highest score for your love language is though. My husband thought his highest one would be physical touch and it was quality time instead.

    As for it being kind of hokey, I guess I just meant that I felt that way about because "love language" sounds hokey to me. I think it helps a lot of people though. For my husband and myself, I just didn't think too much of it since I figured we were very close on how we prioritize the way we show love. Since we both scored the highest on quality time and the lowest on receiving gifts, that shows us that we both would rather just be together than receive a gift from the other. It's not to say that we don't give each other gifts but the funny thing about that is that they are usually gifts of quality time (ie. going to a sporting event or comedy show together). So for us it just confirmed to us how we show love, but for you and your wife it could really help uncover the right way for you to "love" each other. I think for people who have a hard time really expressing themselves the quiz and the book would be a great resource. :)
     
  16. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    Admittedly, I don't know anything about karezza other than a few sentences I read referencing it in Amazon book reviews and a handful of mentions couples have made about it on nofap. Seems like an eastern world concept of having sex without orgasm with the goal of sustaining sexual energy levels. But, that definition is something I pieced together, I am not confident it is correct.

    Problem is though, even reading a book about 'foreplay before sex' might be too progressive for my wife at this point. I need a book I can share with her that will allow us to ease into the whole topic of sex.

    No, but I have been coming to realize how sexually repressed I am. Everytime I had sex before marriage (6 or 7 times), the next day I felt very very guilty. Masturbation has always been very taboo for me and my dirty little secret, even masturbation without porn was a shameful thing for me for most of my life. My parents spoke negatively about sex or masturbation, but they NEVER spoke positively with me about it. I don't think they ever intended for me to be repressed sexually, but I now realize that my lack of exposure to sex in a positive sense has really made it a difficult topic for me.

    I think about my own kids. I have no clue how to talk to them in a positive way about sex. My inclination is to warn them about STDs, pregnancy, rape, strangers, abuse, etc. But, I have no idea how to tell them how amazing sex and intimacy can be. I feel like I don't want to encourage them to have sex because of the serious risks involved, so any positive talk about sex contradicts my desire to keep them safe. What a confusing topic for parents to navigate.

    Persistence. My wife has certain topics that she responds to defensively. To overcome this, I kept my request (my message) consistent and saw her defensiveness as something temporary. That way, over the course of many days she had a chance to calm down and process what I was saying without me sabotaging everything by responding to her defensive comments.

    It does sound hokey, but after I took the online quiz it seemed less hokey, and the quiz was very fast. I had trouble with the quiz though. It would ask me what I would prefer "A hug" or "Quality time with my wife". I didn't know how to answer. Since I almost never get hugs from my wife, I really don't know how good it would feel for her to hug me. I couldn't answer any of those types of questions with any certainty.

    How sad is it that I don't know how much I enjoy hugs from my wife because I can't remember how I felt the last time it happened?
     
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  17. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    I have almost narrowed down the book I am going to buy. I actually already bought one, so far, the book I bought has been EXCELLENT. But, the book I bought I am fairly certain my wife is not ready for. I am having a hard time narrowing down my options, I am pretty sure I am going to end up buying 3 books, maybe 4, that way I have different perspectives. If you have read any of these, let me know your opinion.

    Sex Without Stress: A couple's guide to overcoming disappointment, avoidance & pressure
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FQKTLLN

    The Art of Intimate Marriage: A Christian Couple’s Guide to Sexual Intimacy
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JYGKTVM

    Cupid's Poisoned Arrow: From Habit to Harmony in Sexual Relationships
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WUYP9M

    The Naked Marriage: Undressing the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HQYWFDY

    This is the book I already bought and am a couple of chapters into:
    Woman's Anatomy of Arousal: Secret Maps to Buried Pleasure
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075DT1N3C

    So far, this book has been amazing. One chapter made me feel better about my inability to comfortably discuss sex by explaining how the english language really doesn't have good words to describe sex. Here are some excerpts from the book I have highlighted so far:
    "As a healer, teacher and writer, I constantly have to navigate the straits of the limitations of our language. It’s not easy to do: the choice is essentially between formal to the point of pomposity (scientific language), vague and silly (baby words and euphemisms), and provocative (the “dirty words”)."

    "Historically, Western cultures have discouraged, shamed and actively banned sensuality, sexuality and the experience of ecstasy. Foundational ideas in Western belief systems such as original sin equate erotic desire with evil. Mainstream Christianity has it that the earthly body is innately bad and needs to be transcended in order to be spiritual. This is why the celibate male priest is seen as
    closest to the one male God and a necessary conduit to the Divine.
    Contemporary culture carries this baggage of thousands of years of repressed sexuality, gender inequality, aggression, fear, benightedness and oppression. It’s a heavy cultural load that feeds anxiety, shame, and ignorance, and underlies sexual disempowerment. It rationalizes dominator culture and its many expressions, from slavery to the rape of the earth and all manner of violence."

    "On the silver screen, the actresses always seem to come while they’re wildly, passionately and boisterously boffing. Whether it’s the plumber or the man of their dreams, Prince Charming or that hot neighbor, he just sticks it in, pumps away, and she comes. They often have the fabled screaming, simultaneous orgasm as the fireworks go off. What’s wrong with this picture? First and foremost, it’s not real—and I mean this on two levels. First, they’re acting (which everyone knows). Second, it establishes a narrative about arousal and orgasm that has little to do with reality. Most women simply don’t work that way."

    "Is Sex Sacred? In some ancient cultures, sex was recognized as a path to the sacred Divine. It was an ecstatic practice that led to cosmic oneness and bliss and was considered proof of divine love. In these traditions, there was no distinction between mind, body, heart and spirit. All were seen as rooms in the same holy temple. In many sex-positive cultures, sexuality was also an important part of sacred ceremony. Erotic rituals were practiced to express reverence, heal sickness and insure fertility. Sexual magic was used to create abundance and fruitfulness at the individual, tribal and earthly levels. The last level was the most important of all, given that Mother Earth provides everything needed to survive—our food, our tools and ultimately our very lives.
    Tossed about as we are on the waves of our mixed-message culture, it may be difficult for us to envision sex as a joyful, loving, compassionate path involving ecstatic spiritual practice. Rituals that involve sexuality, erotic energy and ecstatic states can seem shocking and blasphemous when viewed through Western civilization’s lens of profanity and shame. The reality, though, is that our sexuality has the potential to be sacred as well as intensely pleasurable. For this to happen, though, we must embrace a sex-positive, celebratory framework that honors the wonders of Eros."


    This book has been so far, very eye opening for me. All that I know about the sexual world has been based on what I learned watching porn or from what I have figured out mostly on my own with my wife (since she doesn't talk much about what makes her feel good). I think I am finding out that I am much more ignorant than I thought.

    And the book is full of really awesome quotes, for example:
    "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of a larger idea, never returns to its original size."
    -Oliver Wendell Holmes

    “Any real ecstasy is a sign you are moving in the right direction—don’t let any prude tell you otherwise.”
    ST. TERESA OF AVILA
     
  18. Nicko Stretch

    Nicko Stretch Fapstronaut

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  19. Jonnyb4

    Jonnyb4 Fapstronaut

    On the kids front, I've read "They Fuck You Up" (what our parents did that messed us up) and "How Not To Fuck Them Up" (how to not do the same to our own kids). Doesn't really cover sex in any detail but interesting nevertheless.
     
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  20. JustADude

    JustADude Fapstronaut

    I couldn't decide which books to buy. They all had very different perspectives and all seemed to be well written and in a way myself AND my wife could relate too. Since I was taking too long to decide, I just bought them all. I dropped "The Naked Marriage" from the list; the first chapter in the kindle preview was written in a weird way and was difficult to read in an enjoyable fashion. Below is what I ended up with. Hopefully all of the books are a joy to read and I get through them all in a timely fashion.

    I really really appreciate everyone's help. Having support helps calm my nerves and helps keep me motivated. The past week with my wife has been great and I am excited to see where things will progress from here.

    The lady who wrote "Sex Without Stress" has some short vblogs that I emailed my wife to help her get comfortable with that particular author prior to me sending her excerpts from the book. Here they are if you are interested. Each video is about 5 to 8 minutes long.




    Sex Without Stress: A couple's guide to overcoming disappointment, avoidance & pressure
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FQKTLLN
    The Art of Intimate Marriage: A Christian Couple’s Guide to Sexual Intimacy
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JYGKTVM
    Cupid's Poisoned Arrow: From Habit to Harmony in Sexual Relationships
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WUYP9M
    Woman's Anatomy of Arousal: Secret Maps to Buried Pleasure
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075DT1N3C
     

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