Telling the Wife

[Psalm27:1my light]

Again, I appreciate the thoughtful responses and the genuine feelings shared by all of you.

But I do still think there is a level of transference going on where feelings some have for or about their spouses are transferred onto others, when those feelings may not fit. The leap of faith being made here by some is that porn has had a significant negative effect on their relationships so it must have the same significant effect on all marriages. But does it?

And just to say something that I may not have said clearly before. I am not trying to get off porn, because it has negative effects on my marriage. I'm here to get off porn, primarily because it is a waste of time. It is a way to escape stuff that I should be dealing with, like work. It has a negative effect on my life that I recognize, and so I'd like to stop. I don't actually think it has a negative effect on my marriage.

If it didn't have negative effects on my time, then I am not sure I'd be concerned at all. Just as some people drink without being alcoholics, some people view porn without being addicts. But my difficulty reducing the time or cutting out entirely porn, tells me I have a problem.

I started this thread because, as soon as people on here found out I was married, I immediately got advice that I must tell my wife, even though she never came up in anything I had said about my porn use. And I'm still questioning that advice, because it doesn't feel applicable to my situation.

Let's take a non-porn example. I play poker in a weekly game with friends. My wife really dislikes this. She isn't happy that I come home smelling like cigars, and she points out that they are bad for me. She doesn't like that we all drink a bit much. And at core she doesn't really like that I'm going out and having fun while she is home. She would really rather I gave up these games completely. We've compromised a bit and I generally only go to these games once a month or so (this was pre-COVID -- right now the games are on hold). But would anyone here say that I should give up the games completely, because my wife doesn't like them? Particularly as they don't have any significant effect on our marriage? (I don't gamble away the mortgage money.) Also do I have to tell her everything that goes on at the games - the raw jokes, etc.? I am definitely not telling her those things, so I guess I could be accused of deceiving her.

Now let's take a theoretical non-porn addict, who does like porn. If his spouse objects to that like my wife objects to poker, does that person have to give up porn? Does he have to tell his spouse everything about his porn use? Is porn on some other level that it is so poisonous to any relationship that the answer is yes? Is porn so much worse than poker on a relationship in some way? I think that some start from that point of view, and it colors their response.

Now I already anticipate a few objections, the biggest being that, since I haven't told my wife about my porn use I am implicitly admitting I think it is having a negative effect on our marriage. I have to say I don't agree. I will admit that I do think she would not be happy about my porn use. Although to be fair to her, I don't think porn itself would be really that bad for her -- it's more the amount of porn, type of porn, etc. that I anticipate would be an issue for her. I anticipate that my wife would be upset about the extent of porn I watch. But that is an anticipated harm I'd like to avoid in the future - not a harm that I see exists today.

I'd be interested to know, how many spouses start from a position that all porn in any amount is bad. That all porn is, perhaps, a type of infidelity. And they would object to their spouses use of porn on any level. And therefore view any porn use that is not disclosed as being a lie that harms their marriage.

Or how many object to porn, not for itself, but for the harm it puts on their relationship -- harms that maybe they see retroactively occurred even before they found out. Things like their spouses pulling away, etc. And if those negative effects never occurred, whether that would affect their view of their spouses' porn use and whether it had been revealed to them all along.

I've probably put too much in one post. But it's just my putting on paper thoughts I have as I work through this.

You know what the most exasperating thing about addiction? Addicts don’t see the harm. You sound so much like my husband. Until he was a year clean, a year, he still didn’t see the damage it had done. It isn’t the porn per se, it’s the ADDICTION! Addicts lie to themselves more than anyone else. Of course we object to the harm, addictions hurt people. The problem with this addiction is it’s so easy to hide and believe it isn’t hurting anyone. I know you honestly believe that. Hell, my husband believed we had a great marriage. Lol, people in our church thought ( and still do) we had a perfect marriage. My husband and I get along great, he makes me laugh every day. There wasn’t any abuse except the lying and had lighting. I didn’t think porn was a big deal, I’d seen it, could take or leave it. I wasn’t happy with some things in our marriage, but nothing huge and marriage is hard. I wouldn’t object to my husband drinking if it didn’t lead to alcoholism.
I think your poker game example is actually a prime example of your selfishness. Which goes hand in hand with addiction. Yeah, if your wife hates it and doesn’t want you to go then why wouldn’t you stop going? I’m assuming your vows were to forsake all others? I also know that most wives who feel confident, safe and loved by their spouse would not care about the weekly poker games. It’s the ones who feel neglected throughout the week, or are insecure about the relationship that usually have a problem like this. If you feel you must lie to your spouse, then your marriage already has serious problems. But, even if you don’t tell her and you can actually get clean, you will see a huge change for the better in your relationship. Once you are clean, then and only then will you see and realize that it did indeed have a negative impact on your marriage.

 

[used19]

You have the advice of some really level headed, compassionate wives here. And you have the advice of a man 500+ days in recovery. Please, for the sake of your wife, at least let the word settle without being defensive. We get it, you don't want to tell her. But we are rooting for both her and for you. And secrecy is not going to help.

 

[JamesTheSquirrel]

It's obvious that you don't want to tell your wife and as a recovering addict I understand that point of view. It took me a long time to come clean to her and my recovery has been far better for it.

You've asked for advice and people have given you a range of different answers. The truth is the person you should be asking as to whether they want to be involved in your recovery is your wife.

 

[p1n1983]

Well, how do you know she never told him?

Nobody talk about it when you start a relationship, nodoby set that boundry because is not normal to do it in general. In general for man is totally ok to consume porn in a relationship and they never take it in consideration, only when the woman speak about it start to be a problem. Man that are aware of porn addiction are really the minority. Maybe in the future it became more of a trend and people start to talk about it earlier in a relationship to set a boundry.

I guess then, since my husband never told me that sexting and camming with people was a boundary then I’m free to do that in secret and not disclose to him.

If your husband didn't set a boundry that you are exclusive from some moment in the relationship, then you can do it. At least from my part, every time I started a relationship I set a healthy boundry of monogamy, trust, respect, etc. making it really clear that for the relationship to last, those boundries must be respected.

Why would he be so afraid to share if it’s not going to bother her?

As I tell him, she can be open to it or she can be devasteted by it. Because he don't know what she thinks about it, and have no benefit to him telling her that, why would he tell her? If it was important to her, she should ask him about it.. she never did.. so..

I’d say because he has a damn good idea that she won’t take it well.

He has everything to loose if he tell her that, I explaing that in the other comment.

I know couples who swing, they don’t consider it cheating until and unless one of them does it in secret!

Because they talk about it and agree with it. they have boundries to swing. Once on of them do it in private is cheating.. because a boundry was broken.

@p1n1983 does your wife know you PMO? Is she fine with it?

Never wanted to get married, all of my girlfriend wanted to marry me and and have my kids but I didn't. I really enjoy relationships but I'm not into marriage or kids.
Douring my first 3 girlfriends NoFap didn't exist. Every guy fapped with pictures or videos of other woman. It was normal to do it. With my 4th girlfriend I found out that she was into porn too so we share it a couple of times, it was really fun like sharing every other activity.
The last 3..4 years I found NoFap and began to avoid it... and I'm curretly dating and I'm clean. But I didn't stop because woman found it insulting or they consider it cheating. For me is not chaeating at all but I'm trying to quit because avoiding it give me extra energy and motivation to do stuff and pursue my goals.
The way I interact with her is the same as I did with all my previous girlfriends, porn didn't hurt me in that aspect. I wouldn't care if she faps looking at it, we only talked about not fooling around with other people, respect, trust, etc..

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Nobody talk about it when you start a relationship, nodoby set that boundry because is not normal to do it in general. In general for man is totally ok to consume porn in a relationship and they never take it in consideration, only when the woman speak about it start to be a problem. Man that are aware of porn addiction are really the minority. Maybe in the future it became more of a trend and people start to talk about it earlier in a relationship to set a boundry.

If your husband didn't set a boundry that you are exclusive from some moment in the relationship, then you can do it. At least from my part, every time I started a relationship I set a healthy boundry of monogamy, trust, respect, etc. making it really clear that for the relationship to last, those boundries must be respected.

As I tell him, she can be open to it or she can be devasteted by it. Because he don't know what she thinks about it, and have no benefit to him telling her that, why would he tell her? If it was important to her, she should ask him about it.. she never did.. so..

He has everything to loose if he tell her that, I explaing that in the other comment.

Because they talk about it and agree with it. they have boundries to swing. Once on of them do it in private is cheating.. because a boundry was broken.

Never wanted to get married, all of my girlfriend wanted to marry me and and have my kids but I didn't. I really enjoy relationships but I'm not into marriage or kids.
Douring my first 3 girlfriends NoFap didn't exist. Every guy fapped with pictures or videos of other woman. It was normal to do it. With my 4th girlfriend I found out that she was into porn too so we share it a couple of times, it was really fun like sharing every other activity.
The last 3..4 years I found NoFap and began to avoid it... and I'm curretly dating and I'm clean. But I didn't stop because woman found it insulting or they consider it cheating. For me is not chaeating at all but I'm trying to quit because avoiding it give me extra energy and motivation to do stuff and pursue my goals.
The way I interact with her is the same as I did with all my previous girlfriends, porn didn't hurt me in that aspect. I wouldn't care if she faps looking at it, we only talked about not fooling around with other people, respect, trust, etc..

Usually in wedding vows, forsaking ALL others is one of the promises. Marriage has a far greater commitment and expectation than dating. Until you have been married, you cannot compare a dating relationship. It just isn’t the same. Some of us actually did talk to our spouse about porn. However, porn addicts are masters at deception as they’ve been hiding it since childhood. They, lie to themselves that it doesn’t hurt the relationship, because it “ isn’t” cheating and what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her. However, too many studies show this to be complete bs.

 

[RiverBlue]

@DefendMyHeart Yes. I have read quite a bit. Not all of it is as scientific as suggested -- that is some of it is based on addiction studies for substance abuse, which may or may not track entirely with porn addiction. But I certainly feel the dopamine, etc. hit that comes from porn use. It is definitely wired into my brain as a way to cope with stress, depression, etc. And that one of the reasons, I experience porn as an addiction that is hard to kick.

 

[RiverBlue]

@Psalm27:1my light The idea that porn = cheating is something I see here a lot. I don't agree. And I don't think there are many studies that show that. That's a moral, not a scientific conclusion, which may be true for you but not all.

As I've said, for my wife, I doubt she'd object to occasional porn - we've actually watch some "spicy" movies together. I just think she'd be unhappy with the extent of my porn use -- something I'm unhappy about myself, in any case.

 

[Trobone]

And just to say something that I may not have said clearly before. I am not trying to get off porn, because it has negative effects on my marriage. I'm here to get off porn, primarily because it is a waste of time. It is a way to escape stuff that I should be dealing with, like work. It has a negative effect on my life that I recognize, and so I'd like to stop. I don't actually think it has a negative effect on my marriage.

If you don't think it's bad or a negative on your relationship then you should have no problem telling her, right? Just ask yourself if you're using porn to escape work and other "stuff you should be dealing with" is it possible you're also escaping things in your relationship you should be dealing with? If the answer is no, then you should have no problem telling your wife that you think your porn usage is a problem and you're working on quitting, because obviously, she would be happy for you.

I'd be interested to know, how many spouses start from a position that all porn in any amount is bad. That all porn is, perhaps, a type of infidelity. And they would object to their spouse's use of porn on any level. And therefore view any porn use that is not disclosed as being a lie that harms their marriage.

My wife didn't care that I looked at porn. She does on rare occasions as well and sometimes we're watched together.
However, my usage went beyond recreational to compulsive and I was using it to escape emotions and fears instead of being open with my wife. I tried many times to cut down, only look at "appropriate" times, had a couples therapist tell me that it's not a problem I just need to control my impulses. All of those attempts failed and when stressed or angry I would fall back down the same hole. If I had no quit, I fear it could have created many worse problems down the line which would end in divorce and potentially worse things.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

@Psalm27:1my light The idea that porn = cheating is something I see here a lot. I don't agree. And I don't think there are many studies that show that. That's a moral, not a scientific conclusion, which may be true for you but not all.

As I've said, for my wife, I doubt she'd object to occasional porn - we've actually watch some "spicy" movies together. I just think she'd be unhappy with the extent of my porn use -- something I'm unhappy about myself, in any case.

Yeah, I get it. I didn’t think of porn as cheating either. We watched very early in our marriage, like I said I could take it or leave it, but thought it would spice things up too. It wasn’t until I realize the extent either. Been there, done that. Been married 29 years, together 35. He’s been getting high, I’ve been living life. Who do you think has a clearer picture of our marriage? You are getting high from your porn use. It’s not the porn that destroys things, it’s the addiction. I can use porn and not be addicted, just like I can drink alcohol and not become an alcoholic. I choose to do neither because it’s not healthy. My husband didn’t think it was cheating but if you have to lie then you are cheating your wife out of the truth. Very few men view it as cheating, many women do not, but many women do. Almost every single spouse views it as cheating IF it’s been done in secret and lies have been told to hide it. Of course you don’t agree, then tell your wife, it shouldn’t be a problem right? Everyone does it, why are you hiding it? Why would you lie to someone you say you respect and love? I do not understand how on one hand you guys claim it’s not hurting, not cheating, but you lie for years. I think on some level You know it is hurting , You feel on some level it’s wrong to your wife ( otherwise why lie ?), but since you never crossed the physical barrier you’re a great guy and an awesome husband. If you say you lie because you don’t want to hurt her, then you admit what you are doing and have done will hurt her. If just telling her might hurt her. Truthfully, I had a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that this is an addiction rather than just men wanting to get off. However, I watched my husband go through severe withdrawals. I watched my husbands physical appearance change, his voice changed. I watched him struggle as he learned he was not the man he thought he was. I’ve watched his emotional awareness/age change.I always thought he was pretty good in bed, lol, no comparison to him clean. He’s 52, gets hard just looking at me now. The guy had pied for 5 freaking years. We thought it was age or the fact he took up long distance road biking. He’s 2 years in. Very few relapses. He is a very different man. He was always a really good man. He has so many honors and awards that I often forget. He has always provided financially very, very well. I have a 40 acre ranch, 17 horses, literally anything I could’ve materially wanted, he’s that successful. Good father? Always went to any sports or school function and was the president of our kids school board. He really was a good functioning addict. Until he got clean, I’d say about 6 months to a year, even I had no idea how it affected us! I will never go back . Never. Until you are at least a year clean, you will not understand how much it’s affected you. Addiction keeps you in a fantasy fog. I want more of you to beat this! I have a son who I don’t ever want thinking this is normal or ok. I have daughters that I never want to end up with a man who watches porn or drinks or uses meth. They are all the same to me. I really want more of you to grasp the gravity of this addiction. It is life changing.

 

[p1n1983]

Marriage has a far greater commitment and expectation than dating.

Not at all, it's just a contract. All the people I talked to tell that everything was exactly the same after the wedding. It was just a fun party and trip, but after the honey moon it was exactly the same. Once you are in a commited relationship it doesn't matter if you are married or not.

Until you have been married, you cannot compare a dating relationship.

Yes I can. We are talking about the relationship between a man and a woman and I have pleanty of experience myself, also friends and read a lot a about it. Please don't use this crapy argument to discharge other people opinions.

It just isn’t the same.

It is the same.. but with a contract that tigth you with that person legaly and with a god if you do it in a church.

Some of us actually did talk to our spouse about porn.

I spoke in general, there are case like this and I always support setting healthy boundries in the beginning of the relationship. Porn is normally not one of them, for man is something they can do and normally woman don't like it generally is not spoken until a few years into the relationship.

However, porn addicts are masters at deception as they’ve been hiding it since childhood.

Of course, like every other addiction. But 90/95% of guys don't know about nofap and don't think porn is an addiction. They just enjoy it and keep doing it in a relationship.

They, lie to themselves that it doesn’t hurt the relationship

Most of them don't even consider that, only a few people in NoFap agree on that.

because it “ isn’t” cheating

"Cheating" is basically a crossed boundry. If the man is ok looking at porn he is never going to think about it like cheating unless the woman tell him that. Remember, before the relationship he does porn all week. he is not going to stop doing it with a new relationship, is part of his rutine. Unless you tell him that this is not allowed he is going to do it naturally.

what she doesn’t know won’t hurt her

If he knows you don't like it, then this is a bad man. And I agree with you. But most man do porn like it is normal, and really look at it like something that is not bad for her or the relationship.

However, too many studies show this to be complete bs.

There are studies, yes. But the reality is that porn addiction is under the radar, it isn't a worldwide approved concept so the topic is not fully studied at all.
Besides that.. In my own opinion there are levels of addictions like averything. And there are a lot of gray areas between a no addict and an addict. A man that consume porn daily, a couple of times is going to be all over about porn and of course addicted, I think that this behavioir can affect his relationship. A man that consume porn once a month is not and addict and it can't affect his relationship.. but woman like you will think of it as cheating. In the middle there are a lot of man consuming more or less porn.. is difficult to know how much is to much that it can affect your relationship.

At the end of the day... a relationship is a common agreenment between 2 people that want to share something together. Set healthy boundries from the start and if the other person don't respect them just call it a day and move on. If you didn't talk about porn in the beginning of the relationship as a woman, know that man take porn as a normal thing to do douring a relationship, so he is going to keep doing it. Don't feel betrayed when you find out about it years after commiting. Just tell him that is not ok with you and move on if he is not willing to quit porn but avoid shameblaming him to stop doing it because it is cheating..

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Not at all, it's just a contract. All the people I talked to tell that everything was exactly the same after the wedding. It was just a fun party and trip, but after the honey moon it was exactly the same. Once you are in a commited relationship it doesn't matter if you are married or not.

Yes I can. We are talking about the relationship between a man and a woman and I have pleanty of experience myself, also friends and read a lot a about it. Please don't use this crapy argument to discharge other people opinions.

It is the same.. but with a contract that tigth you with that person legaly and with a god if you do it in a church.

I spoke in general, there are case like this and I always support setting healthy boundries in the beginning of the relationship. Porn is normally not one of them, for man is something they can do and normally woman don't like it generally is not spoken until a few years into the relationship.

Of course, like every other addiction. But 90/95% of guys don't know about nofap and don't think porn is an addiction. They just enjoy it and keep doing it in a relationship.

Most of them don't even consider that, only a few people in NoFap agree on that.


"Cheating" is basically a crossed boundry. If the man is ok looking at porn he is never going to think about it like cheating unless the woman tell him that. Remember, before the relationship he does porn all week. he is not going to stop doing it with a new relationship, is part of his rutine. Unless you tell him that this is not allowed he is going to do it naturally.

If he knows you don't like it, then this is a bad man. And I agree with you. But most man do porn like it is normal, and really look at it like something that is not bad for her or the relationship.

There are studies, yes. But the reality is that porn addiction is under the radar, it isn't a worldwide approved concept so the topic is not fully studied at all.
Besides that.. In my own opinion there are levels of addictions like averything. And there are a lot of gray areas between a no addict and an addict. A man that consume porn daily, a couple of times is going to be all over about porn and of course addicted, I think that this behavioir can affect his relationship. A man that consume porn once a month is not and addict and it can't affect his relationship.. but woman like you will think of it as cheating. In the middle there are a lot of man consuming more or less porn.. is difficult to know how much is to much that it can affect your relationship.

At the end of the day... a relationship is a common agreenment between 2 people that want to share something together. Set healthy boundries from the start and if the other person don't respect them just call it a day and move on. If you didn't talk about porn in the beginning of the relationship as a woman, know that man take porn as a normal thing to do douring a relationship, so he is going to keep doing it. Don't feel betrayed when you find out about it years after commiting. Just tell him that is not ok with you and move on if he is not willing to quit porn but avoid shameblaming him to stop doing it because it is cheating..

Marriage is different than just dating. You may see no difference, but most people do. Most people only marry one or two times in their life whereas most people will have far more relationships than that. The reason is because marriage is different, it is a contract that by law you are held to a higher standard. You can’t just walk away, you must legally file and then legally split financially. Even lgbtq community recognizes that it’s different and fought very hard to be able to marry! Since you have never been married you have zero experience being married. That is a fact. Until you are married you do not know or understand that it is different. Maybe for you being married wouldn’t be any different, but until you actually get married, you do not know. If it’s all the same, why are you against getting married????

 

[Reverent]

Not at all, it's just a contract. All the people I talked to tell that everything was exactly the same after the wedding. It was just a fun party and trip, but after the honey moon it was exactly the same. Once you are in a commited relationship it doesn't matter if you are married or not.

Yes I can. We are talking about the relationship between a man and a woman and I have pleanty of experience myself, also friends and read a lot a about it. Please don't use this crapy argument to discharge other people opinions.

It is the same.. but with a contract that tigth you with that person legaly and with a god if you do it in a church.

I spoke in general, there are case like this and I always support setting healthy boundries in the beginning of the relationship. Porn is normally not one of them, for man is something they can do and normally woman don't like it generally is not spoken until a few years into the relationship.

Of course, like every other addiction. But 90/95% of guys don't know about nofap and don't think porn is an addiction. They just enjoy it and keep doing it in a relationship.

Most of them don't even consider that, only a few people in NoFap agree on that.


"Cheating" is basically a crossed boundry. If the man is ok looking at porn he is never going to think about it like cheating unless the woman tell him that. Remember, before the relationship he does porn all week. he is not going to stop doing it with a new relationship, is part of his rutine. Unless you tell him that this is not allowed he is going to do it naturally.

If he knows you don't like it, then this is a bad man. And I agree with you. But most man do porn like it is normal, and really look at it like something that is not bad for her or the relationship.

There are studies, yes. But the reality is that porn addiction is under the radar, it isn't a worldwide approved concept so the topic is not fully studied at all.
Besides that.. In my own opinion there are levels of addictions like averything. And there are a lot of gray areas between a no addict and an addict. A man that consume porn daily, a couple of times is going to be all over about porn and of course addicted, I think that this behavioir can affect his relationship. A man that consume porn once a month is not and addict and it can't affect his relationship.. but woman like you will think of it as cheating. In the middle there are a lot of man consuming more or less porn.. is difficult to know how much is to much that it can affect your relationship.

At the end of the day... a relationship is a common agreenment between 2 people that want to share something together. Set healthy boundries from the start and if the other person don't respect them just call it a day and move on. If you didn't talk about porn in the beginning of the relationship as a woman, know that man take porn as a normal thing to do douring a relationship, so he is going to keep doing it. Don't feel betrayed when you find out about it years after commiting. Just tell him that is not ok with you and move on if he is not willing to quit porn but avoid shameblaming him to stop doing it because it is cheating..

Most of everything you say here is completely wrong. /Smh

Just get clean friend.

 

[RiverBlue]

Most of everything you say here is completely wrong. /Smh

It may be wrong for you. But I think we should give him the space (as I would appreciate the space) to have his own experiences. One size does not fit all.

 

[used19]

It may be wrong for you. But I think we should give him the space (as I would appreciate the space) to have his own experiences. One size does not fit all.

He has space to have is own opinions. However he has never been married and is spouting off about marriage as if it is gospel truth. Could it be possible that you are quick to support him because his ideas support your desire to not tell your wife. To feel supported in thinking that your addiction has had zero impact on your marriage and therefore you don't need to disclose it. Maybe you and your wife have a contractual marriage that is more akin to a legal union only for tax and insurance benefits. Maybe his friends marriages were just contracts, but mine is not. I was married in the church, it was far far more than a contract. I can also say in the case of my marriage that one we did talk about it while dating and it was not cool. I also told him looking at other women at all wasn't ok with me. And that if he had an affair, his bags would be packed that very day. Then by making marriage vows in the church, for us all of this was spelled out to not be ok. So maybe civil marriages don't touch on it, but those of us who also had religious marriages probably not only talked about it but it was agreed upon in our vows through church teaching. In many of our cases all this stuff that he says is "normal" for a man to do in marriage are not true. Thinking it is is a direct result of porn culture.

 

[RiverBlue]

Could it be possible that you are quick to support him because his ideas support your desire to not tell your wife.

Look, I don't like to make this all personal, but I feel like I can respond to something specifically directed at me. Your post is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that some people project their own feelings and situations onto others.

First, in my post, I didn't directly support anything he said. I just said he ought to have his own space to have his own experiences in his own relationships. Whether I agree or not with him, isn't relevant to that statement.

Second, my marriage is also in the church. It's a covenant between two people. It's still a contract. A sacred contract -- but a contract. You can put your own ideas into what that means in your own marriage. But it's not for you to say what it means in my marriage or in his relationships.

Okay, end of personal response.

 

[used19]

Fine. I do find it interesting that you are only defending the one response in the thread that has no idea what a marriage is. And as soon as the wives come sharing their side (and the commonalities appear in our experience) that you start the whole projection bit. None of us know exactly what is going on in your situation beyond the fact that your wife knows basically nothing about any of your personal to you sexual life (both pre and during marriage) and that for some reason you guys are in relationship therapy but it couldn't possibly be because of the porn. All we're trying to do, in this section about rebooting in a relationship, is to share experiences that despite your addicted opinion, she is probably already being effected by your porn use and giving some food for thought over whether you really want to risk doing this secretly both because of the damage it could further do to the relationship and because it's going to be very hard to sustain a successful recovery in secrecy. You haven't shared anything else specific, so in empathy for your wife and for your best chance at success we feel inclined to share experiences so you can take what might be helpful for your journey.

Btw, I don't consider a contract and a covenant to be the same thing at all. If this were a contract mine would already be over given that he violated the terms into the ground.

 

[Lilla_My]

Wouldn't that just be the best. From the women voicing their views on here, it seems like that doesn't exist. In my view, you'd have to have a partner who could listen openly, decide to be supportive and stay in the relationship, and then get beyond the judgment and feeling hurt. That last step must be the hardest. I don't know if I could do it. Some of the spouses on NoFap don't seem to have made it past that last step.

It's not her job. She is involved in your wellbeing, not ultimately responsible for it. I've seen that the men on here want a woman that is the ultimate mix of an OnlyFans girl, a diplomatic and objectively detached psychiatrist and an ever so loyal therapy Labrador, all mixed up in a selfless fog of a mother's unconditional love. One can wonder if this is realistic, or fair.

So far, I've never heard of a man that would stay and provide stellar and unwavering support for a compulsively lying woman with a voracious sexual appetite for everyone but her own husband. A male like that would be considered a complete moron, and the woman... well, you know fully well what she would be called.

While I strongly agree upon what another significant other on here wrote, regarding that extra layer of accountability that occurs when the wife is involved, I honestly don't know if it's always needed to be successful in quitting porn. In the end, it's your job and if you can do it without her and be successful, then maybe that's good enough. We are all rooting for you, and there is a great probability that you can be the man you always wanted to be with little or no involvement from anyone else.

With that being said, two years on being on this website has taught me one thing above all else: the relationships where a woman finds out on her own tend to end badly, while those where the woman is told suffer minimal damage in the long run. Truths, even if they are bad, rarely kills love. Deceit and lies, even if they are small, have a tendency to do so surprisingly efficiently.

One doesn't have to have a PhD in human behavioural science to see that you already have decided not to tell her and you want to justify your decision not to do so. Ultimately, she can't (and shouldn't) be the one who fix you. But you can be the one who rescues her from horrible heartache, and that can really be worth something.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Fine. I do find it interesting that you are only defending the one response in the thread that has no idea what a marriage is. And as soon as the wives come sharing their side (and the commonalities appear in our experience) that you start the whole projection bit. None of us know exactly what is going on in your situation beyond the fact that your wife knows basically nothing about any of your personal to you sexual life (both pre and during marriage) and that for some reason you guys are in relationship therapy but it couldn't possibly be because of the porn. All we're trying to do, in this section about rebooting in a relationship, is to share experiences that despite your addicted opinion, she is probably already being effected by your porn use and giving some food for thought over whether you really want to risk doing this secretly both because of the damage it could further do to the relationship and because it's going to be very hard to sustain a successful recovery in secrecy. You haven't shared anything else specific, so in empathy for your wife and for your best chance at success we feel inclined to share experiences so you can take what might be helpful for your journey.

Btw, I don't consider a contract and a covenant to be the same thing at all. If this were a contract mine would already be over given that he violated the terms into the ground.

Agree. I also do not consider my marriage a contract only, I only addressed that side of how marriage is different because I do not believe the person I was responding to has any interest in the religious aspect of marriage.

 

[nayexcuses]

I don't actually think it has a negative effect on my marriage.

I have debated for a couple of days about if I should share my thoughts or not....
I feel like if you have watched enough porn it is likely to have at less some negative impact on your relationship. Why, because when you watch enough porn it impacts the way you view sex. This impact is not a favorable one. For the sake of reducing triggers I'll have to be vague. Pretty much all mainstream produced porn follows the same formula concerning roles that the participants play. Certain visually and acts are almost always present. Repetitive filming techniques are used that guide the viewers focus. The participants behave and respond in certain consistent ways. This eventually establishes what "good sex" looks like. None of this comes from a good place. Porn producers are not trying to teach/celebrate or enhance people's lives or relationships. They are concerned solely will moving their product and gaining new viewers through any means necessary. They even produce content that plays on people's fears and insecurities. This in turn fuels greater usage. Now I am not trying to say that you don't know the difference between porn and real life. I'm not saying that you are trying to bring "porn moves" into the bedroom. However, I found it hard to believe that after watching enough porn that you don't at least make some comparisons between what you have watched and what you share with your wife. You most likely, at least at certain times, have felt a sense of lacking when you have made such comparisons. Thus, I think that it is likely that porn has at least a slightly negative effect on your marriage because it most likely has a negative effect (at times) on the way you view your love life.

BTW. I know the above does not address your main question.

 

[hope4healing]

While my porn addiction has had some effect on our relationship for sure -- particularly my sex drive with her, I think -- I don't think it has ever been a big source of relationship problems.

You said yourself that your addiction has had an effect on your relationship, and you even say how you think it's affecting it. But, then you immediately minimize it saying you don't think it's ever been a "big source" of relationship problems. As the long-time wife of a PA who has also had a diminished sex drive due to his addiction, I can tell you that, for me, it has caused a lot of heartache, and that began before I ever knew about his addiction.

When there is a lack of sexual desire for your wife, even if she doesn't know the reason, it's likely to cause feelings of insecurity and inadequacy. Nearly everyone would be hurt by that, although some more than others, but you seem to think your wife is the exception because she doesn't know the cause? When I began to notice my husband's sexual interest in me declining, it definitely had a negative impact on me, but I knew nothing about his addiction at that time.

Whatever benefits my marriage gains when I'm off porn are there whether or not I tell her.

Yes, but it seems that not telling her benefits the addiction more than the marriage. Maintaining addict thinking means that you don't ever have to actually be accountable for your addictive choices, and that allows you to continue telling yourself that 'what she doesn't know isn't hurting her.' It also leaves the door open for continued relapse because you keep telling yourself that you're trying to kick it, and you're not really doing anything wrong anyway. If it isn't wrong and the only problem your addiction has caused is the wasting of time, why have you lied to her about it since the very beginning?

But I'm still not sure this answers the question, which was whether this is something that has to be done to ever be successful with kicking a porn addiction.

It may be wrong for you. But I think we should give him the space (as I would appreciate the space) to have his own experiences. One size does not fit all.

You asked the question. Many people, including both SO's and PA's, have given you their answers to it. Just because everyone isn't agreeing with you or telling you it's fine to keep secrets and lies within your marriage doesn't mean they're projecting. They're telling you what's happened from their own experiences, and all the research in the world wouldn't change that. Shouldn't everyone here "have space to have their own experiences," or is that only for those agreeing with you?

Nobody talk about it when you start a relationship, nodoby set that boundry because is not normal to do it in general. In general for man is totally ok to consume porn in a relationship and they never take it in consideration, only when the woman speak about it start to be a problem

Some of us did discuss P use before marriage, thoroughly. I made it very clear that it was not acceptable in marriage, and he agreed. He understood and agreed that P=cheating. There was no grey area. We agreed that sex within our marriage is between the 2 of us, only. And, I doubt we are the only ones who ever discussed this at the beginning.

I believe everyone who's taking the time to write a thoughtful response to your question is genuinely trying to be helpful. You don't have to agree with what they say. It's clear that you don't want to tell your wife, and it's equally as clear that you don't want to hear anyone's opinion about why you should. If you want research and information that says your PA isn't hurting your marriage, I haven't seen any if it's out there. But, there's plenty that says otherwise.

https://www.onlyyouforever.com/impact-of-your-porn-use-on-your-wife/

https://sexandrelationshiphealing.c...ddiction-isnt-enough-entire-four-part-series/