Telling the Wife

[RiverBlue]

I believe everyone who's taking the time to write a thoughtful response to your question is genuinely trying to be helpful.

I genuinely believe this is true too.

You don't have to agree with what they say.

And I believe this is also true. Those who have posted are telling us the genuine experiences of their own lives. I don't discount what they have experienced or felt. And to be clear, there are some things in what some have said that I can relate to, but not all. I am not sure why that statement should be seen as so controversial.

 

[p1n1983]

Most of everything you say here is completely wrong. /Smh

Is not wrong, is another point of view that don't match yours. The fact that don't match yours, don't make it wrong.

 

[p1n1983]

If it’s all the same, why are you against getting married????

50% of marriage end in divorse. There are a lot of marriage that are unhappy ones but they don't file for divorce because of the kids or what would people said or because is going to be a lot of money lost in lowyers or maybe because they just don't have the balls to do it and are afraid of been alone and start all over again. Of course there are also happy marriage out there that last until the last day together.

From a bussines point of view.. that 50% percent that end the marriage have the inconvenience of money split.. etc. So marriage is a "bussines" that ends with serious damage in your bank account, high risk but no gains, is the worst business investment you can do.

I personally don't need a contract to commit to a woman and I'm not an unsecure person that need that the other person sign one to make her mine in front of god or goberment.
I want to be with a woman that is free to choose me everyday to be his man and I want to have that freedom to choose her everyday. I don't want to be with a woman that is with me, and try hard to be with me just because we are maried.
I also want to be free that if I don't choose that person anymore the break up is easier for the both of us.
So.. without marriage 2 people are going to be together because they really want to be together.. with marriage.. the reason to be together it's going to be tricky. I could be love, but it could also be the pain of breaking the contract, money, kids.. etc.

I'm currently dating a woman that is not into marriage at all but she is about commitment in a relationship. We both think that what we feel for each other is more important that what a contract says.

Another example is what we all have with our friends. I know my best friends for 25 years now, we never sign a contract to be best friends but we are still haging with each other regulaty and have our back everytime we need each other.

For me people that spend they life together they do because they want, because what they feel about each other.. they don't need a contract to do it.. they just do.

 

[Metis07]

I am with @palindromo and @p1n1983 on this - work on this problem yourself (I mean not involving her, specialist, friends or family is OK, someone who you think can understand and support you).
But ofc you know better - your situation and your wife, if you sure that she will be supportive and understanding, and it will really help you with getting rid of this habit, tell her, but if it is going to make a scandal and drama, then it is a big NO (it's also in her interest not knowing such stuff in case of such reaction).

Except that, what was discussed here - I think that porn has an enormous negative influence on marriage and life in general. So try to get rid of it completely, BUT do it for yourself, first of all, must be your choice.
(If you not sure do 90 days - 1 year hard mode as an experiment and see for yourself).

 

[RiverBlue]

BUT do it for yourself, first of all, must be your choice.

Yes! I think that is foremost.

 

[Stop The Cycle]

This post and the comments amaze me.

I appreciate the honesty of @RiverBlue asking the question in the first place. My thoughts are pretty simple:

• Is telling your wife a requirement for getting clean? No, plainly not.
• Is your porn addiction harming you, and by extension, harming your wife and child? Yes, most certainly.
• Does your wife deserve to know the truth about your porn addiction? Absolutely.

Like many porn addicts, I'm familiar with your language. We all know how to create word salads and dance around the main issues as a way of obfuscating all the details of our addiction. This is child's play.

Think through the second and third bullet points above. Porn harms you. Not only does scientific/medical research support this, but the experiences of hundreds and thousands of people provide more than adequate proof. Porn deadens your reward system so that you no longer feel joy naturally. By your own admission, porn wastes hours of your life you can never get back. Unless you are some special gold-spotted unicorn, porn harms your sex life with your wife. I could go on and on.

The main point is simple: porn hurts you.

Porn also hurts your spouse. You have at least one area of your life you cannot share with your wife. This is harmful to intimacy by definition. You are wasting hours of your life on a bad habit. What's your wife's opportunity cost for these hours? Your inability to talk about it with your wife suggests some level of fear and insecurity in your relationship. Surely this is harmful to both of you?

Again, the main point is simple: porn hurts your spouse.

Does she deserve to know? Absolutely. Man, I'm great at hiding this stuff. I can lie really well. Far better than I should ever be comfortable admitting. Can I keep this from my wife? Sure. She's busy, I'm busy, and the kids are growing. Hiding it is easy.

Except she knows. She knows my mood swings, my lack of interest, or my 'amazing sexual stamina.' She knows something isn't right without me ever telling her.

She's also a beautiful person who has the RIGHT to know the risks you are exposing her to every single time you look at porn. Could it cost you a career? Sure, it has done for many people. Could it impair your judgment and bring shame into her life? Yes, that is an incredibly high possibility. Could it come out one day in an uncontrolled way that causes her even more pain? Oh yeah, that's the most likely outcome at this point. Could your addiction expose your kid to porn and create a massive problem for your wife? Yep. Thousands of boys found their father's stashes and got hooked.

Simple point: she is a valuable person who deserves to know the truth about what your are bringing into your marriage.

I'll be super blunt now, at the risk of being offensive.

This thread started days ago but your counter says 1 day. I know myself well enough to know that when I'm in the cycle of porn/high/hiding/shame/repeat, I cannot make good decisions.

Get yourself to 30 days sober and then revisit the question. If you can't manage 30 days, then maybe you need the help she can offer. If you can't manage 30 days and are afraid of reaching out to the person most committed to you, then I don't think anyone should have to say more about the damage porn has already done to your marriage.

Sorry man. Tough love.

Get clean, stay clean, love clean.

 

[Real Roboin]

@p1n1983 Thanks man. I appreciate your different viewpoint. I have to say that I just don't see where telling my wife is likely to 1) help me get off porn (I just don't see how telling her connects to my stopping) or 2) lead to anything buy conflict and hurt feelings.

When you are clean for a significant amount of time, I would wonder or see how you feel. You seem numb and that is a side effect of porn and how you see things using , you may see differently after being clean and went through withdrawals. How my husband seen our marriage and how did were 2 different ways. Also if have children, be careful. My children knew when I did not know that was a trauma in itself. I wouldn.t suprised if your wife does not already know or wonder about her sexlife with you.

 

[Real Roboin]

You're right. When I tell people I'm bisexual and married I get a lot of negative reactions. It seems like an assumption that bisexual people cannot possibly ever be faithful. The idea that a man (or woman) could decide never to have sex with anyone but their partner, and do it, is assumed to be normal. But the idea that a bisexual man (or woman) could decide the same thing, and then actually do it, is assumed to be impossible. I find it very one-sided.

I just watched a show, the episode was about being with a woman and being bisexual and it addressed it well. For he only had eyes for her and she had to realize that.

 

[HelloThereGeneral]

Yeah, I get it. I didn’t think of porn as cheating either. We watched very early in our marriage, like I said I could take it or leave it, but thought it would spice things up too. It wasn’t until I realize the extent either. Been there, done that. Been married 29 years, together 35. He’s been getting high, I’ve been living life. Who do you think has a clearer picture of our marriage? You are getting high from your porn use. It’s not the porn that destroys things, it’s the addiction. I can use porn and not be addicted, just like I can drink alcohol and not become an alcoholic. I choose to do neither because it’s not healthy. My husband didn’t think it was cheating but if you have to lie then you are cheating your wife out of the truth. Very few men view it as cheating, many women do not, but many women do. Almost every single spouse views it as cheating IF it’s been done in secret and lies have been told to hide it. Of course you don’t agree, then tell your wife, it shouldn’t be a problem right? Everyone does it, why are you hiding it? Why would you lie to someone you say you respect and love? I do not understand how on one hand you guys claim it’s not hurting, not cheating, but you lie for years. I think on some level You know it is hurting , You feel on some level it’s wrong to your wife ( otherwise why lie ?), but since you never crossed the physical barrier you’re a great guy and an awesome husband. If you say you lie because you don’t want to hurt her, then you admit what you are doing and have done will hurt her. If just telling her might hurt her. Truthfully, I had a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that this is an addiction rather than just men wanting to get off. However, I watched my husband go through severe withdrawals. I watched my husbands physical appearance change, his voice changed. I watched him struggle as he learned he was not the man he thought he was. I’ve watched his emotional awareness/age change.I always thought he was pretty good in bed, lol, no comparison to him clean. He’s 52, gets hard just looking at me now. The guy had pied for 5 freaking years. We thought it was age or the fact he took up long distance road biking. He’s 2 years in. Very few relapses. He is a very different man. He was always a really good man. He has so many honors and awards that I often forget. He has always provided financially very, very well. I have a 40 acre ranch, 17 horses, literally anything I could’ve materially wanted, he’s that successful. Good father? Always went to any sports or school function and was the president of our kids school board. He really was a good functioning addict. Until he got clean, I’d say about 6 months to a year, even I had no idea how it affected us! I will never go back . Never. Until you are at least a year clean, you will not understand how much it’s affected you. Addiction keeps you in a fantasy fog. I want more of you to beat this! I have a son who I don’t ever want thinking this is normal or ok. I have daughters that I never want to end up with a man who watches porn or drinks or uses meth. They are all the same to me. I really want more of you to grasp the gravity of this addiction. It is life changing.

This post gives me hope. My addiction has marred the relationship with my wife to where she was so angry with me I thought she was going to kick me out of the house.
We both haven't had a major talk about it yet (it just happened last night) but your story gives me hope for our future.
12 hours since my last fap.

 

[EyesWideOpen]

My wife doesn't know about my porn addiction. She doesn't know about my bisexuality. She doesn't know anything about my extensive sexual history pre-marriage. (Other than porn, I've never had any sexual relationship with anyone other than her since we started going out.) We've been married almost 15 years and have a son.

We've had some issues with our relationship at times. We see a relationship therapist. At this point, with the therapist's help, our relationship is pretty good. While my porn addiction has had some effect on our relationship for sure -- particularly my sex drive with her, I think -- I don't think it has ever been a big source of relationship problems.

On here, it seems almost universally accepted that one has to tell one's spouse. It's presented as a prerequisite -- something one has to do in order to kick the addiction. I don't see that.

I've made significant progress in kicking my addiction. I see no reason why I can't kick it completely without telling my wife about it. Whatever benefits my marriage gains when I'm off porn are there whether or not I tell her.

Now, some suggest an understanding spouse is a help in dealing with this addiction. I get that. And there is also the consideration that she may discover this on here own, and it would be better to tell her pre-emptively. I get that. So there are good reasons for some to tell their partner about their addiction.

But, unless I'm missing something, I don't get the idea that this is a must in every relationship. And even more that this is something that has to be done to ever be successful with kicking a porn addiction.

"Addicts don't lie to you because the truth will hurt your feelings. Addicts lie to you because the truth might provoke you to make choices that won't serve in their interests." -Dr. Doug Weiss

 

[RiverBlue]

@Roady I am not sure of your question. My statement was simply in response to a poster who assumed apparently that my marriage was a civil union.

 

[RiverBlue]

what would God think about my secret porn use in my marriage.

He would see it as a sin. I'm not perfect. I'm not claiming to be. Far from it. Part of the reason I am here and want to stop.

But I don't see it as the sin of adultery, which some here I think do. We could get into a theological discussion over whether that's a true interpretation of scripture or not, but I'm comfortable with it and that I am in alignment with the position of my church on this. So, going further, I don't see it as a breach of my marriage vow. Others I understand, in their own situations, see it as that, and I respect that for them.

 

[Lilla_My]

He would see it as a sin. I'm not perfect. I'm not claiming to be. Far from it. Part of the reason I am here and want to stop.

But I don't see it as the sin of adultery, which some here I think do. We could get into a theological discussion over whether that's a true interpretation of scripture or not, but I'm comfortable with it and that I am in alignment with the position of my church on this. So, going further, I don't see it as a breach of my marriage vow. Others I understand, in their own situations, see it as that, and I respect that for them.

Imagine this: every time you go out of the house, your wife gives you a little kiss and you cheerfully say goodbye to her. You smile, close the door and go about your day. Your wife take a discreet peek behind the curtain to make sure you are gone. Then she opens her laptop to greet the hot stranger on the Webcam. She laughs while she start to undress and play with herself. He sees every inch of your wife while they both pleasure themselves. This goes on every day, maybe several times a day, for years. Who is he? Well, he is one of thousands; there is a new one every day. He could be your friend, your neighbour, anyone. She has never met these guys irl and she probably never will. When you return home and try to cuddle up to your wife, she says she is too tired to have sex with you. After all, she has already had an orgasm or two with the other men.

Is this adultery? Is it a sin? Would you be fine with this? I mean, she has never been physical with anyone. Her "opinion" is that you would be fine with not knowing. Does she fulfill her marriage vows to you? Or could you in fact have done better?

It is through the hard questions we grow. Now you take the road of least resistance.

 

[RiverBlue]

She has never met these guys irl and she probably never will.

So, I'm assuming your partner spends a lot of time on webcams sexting with other women. I do not. I view porn - vids, pic, etc. You see webcams as like cheating, and I can understand your reaction to that. But your assumption that your partner's habits are the same as mine, just like your assumption you know what my wife thinks, is another example of the projection I've mentioned.

And the more I hear about your situation and the situations of others on here, the more I realize everyone's situation is unique. And so there is no one right thing to do that applies to everyone.

And your example of role reversal is interesting, but here's the thing, thinking it about it carefully, I just wouldn't see it as cheating or anything like cheating -- even if she was sexting and webcamming. And, as far as watching porn, I wouldn't really have any objection to it at all.

Maybe this is a critical difference in thinking between me and others on this forum. I don't have any basic moral qualms with porn itself. My problem, and the problem, I'm here to solve is that I have difficulty putting it aside. I feel I spend too much time on it. I feel it's something I ought to be able to control. But as a thing itself, I don't really have a negative view of it. It's like alcohol or marijuana -- it can be abused and become addictive, but in moderation it's not bad and even kinda fun.

 

[patmandu5555]

My wife doesn't know about my porn addiction. She doesn't know about my bisexuality. She doesn't know anything about my extensive sexual history pre-marriage. (Other than porn, I've never had any sexual relationship with anyone other than her since we started going out.) We've been married almost 15 years and have a son.

We've had some issues with our relationship at times. We see a relationship therapist. At this point, with the therapist's help, our relationship is pretty good. While my porn addiction has had some effect on our relationship for sure -- particularly my sex drive with her, I think -- I don't think it has ever been a big source of relationship problems.

On here, it seems almost universally accepted that one has to tell one's spouse. It's presented as a prerequisite -- something one has to do in order to kick the addiction. I don't see that.

I've made significant progress in kicking my addiction. I see no reason why I can't kick it completely without telling my wife about it. Whatever benefits my marriage gains when I'm off porn are there whether or not I tell her.

Now, some suggest an understanding spouse is a help in dealing with this addiction. I get that. And there is also the consideration that she may discover this on here own, and it would be better to tell her pre-emptively. I get that. So there are good reasons for some to tell their partner about their addiction.

But, unless I'm missing something, I don't get the idea that this is a must in every relationship. And even more that this is something that has to be done to ever be successful with kicking a porn addiction.

I agree with you. Unless she is the source of the problem somehow, which I doubt, I don’t think it helps anything to tell her. I could just hurt and anger her while doing nothing to solve the problem. Wives are terrible accountability partners anyway.

 

[RiverBlue]

@Roady I am glad for you that you have the conviction of your faith. I have mine. I think we should leave it at that as this is not the place for a theological debate.

 

[Lilla_My]

So, I'm assuming your partner spends a lot of time on webcams sexting with other women. I do not. I view porn - vids, pic, etc. You see webcams as like cheating, and I can understand your reaction to that. But your assumption that your partner's habits are the same as mine, just like your assumption you know what my wife thinks, is another example of the projection I've mentioned.

And the more I hear about your situation and the situations of others on here, the more I realize everyone's situation is unique. And so there is no one right thing to do that applies to everyone.

And your example of role reversal is interesting, but here's the thing, thinking it about it carefully, I just wouldn't see it as cheating or anything like cheating -- even if she was sexting and webcamming. And, as far as watching porn, I wouldn't really have any objection to it at all.

Maybe this is a critical difference in thinking between me and others on this forum. I don't have any basic moral qualms with porn itself. My problem, and the problem, I'm here to solve is that I have difficulty putting it aside. I feel I spend too much time on it. I feel it's something I ought to be able to control. But as a thing itself, I don't really have a negative view of it. It's like alcohol or marijuana -- it can be abused and become addictive, but in moderation it's not bad and even kinda fun.

I agree with you in part. Web camera is a slightly different animal. I have no experience of that; it hasn't, to my knowledge, been an issue in my marriage. But I do not know. I can't choose my future, because like so many spouses on here, if something were to happen (cheating, camming, the list goes on) I would be the last to know. That's not a great feeling.

Details aside: if your wife were to show pics of herself to other men, would that be fine?

This is an over simplification of course, but I've noticed a very strong tendency for men to be very upset if other men watch their wife in a sexual manner. Women, on the contrary, don't like when their man watch others.

My husband don't like it when I wear revealing clothes, and would certainly not appreciate it if I showed myself nude to people online. I could always argue that doing so anyway wouldn't make me a cheater and it wouldn't be a big deal. But in the end, does it matter what I think? If he FEELS bothered by this, isn't it kind of my problem? If my mission is to make him as happy and as satisfied with our marriage as is humanly possible, wouldn't I be a failure in that regard if I hurt him? Wouldn't it be fair to at least tell him, so he could choose for himself if I were the right girl for him?

You think it's okay to consume porn, that's fine. Life is customizable. Some people have open marriages, some watch sexual material together. It's not really about the deed, but what is agreed upon beforehand. If things are as harmless as you point them out to be, then maybe it's no big issue filling her in about what's really going on?

Your marriage is not consensual, because she hasn't consented to this. The issue doesn't lie in the morality of the deed (that's an issue for your priest), but in the deceit, the lack of being able to decide in her own intimate life.

 

[RiverBlue]

Details aside: if your wife were to show pics of herself to other men, would that be fine?

I think you and I agree on this point -- there is a difference between just viewing porn and webcamming with others. I wouldn't have a problem with my wife just viewing porn. Her posting her nude pictures, I might have an issue with that. Nude camming and chatting with guys -- that's pretty close to actual cheating. I'd be concerned with that and where it was going.

This is an over simplification of course, but I've noticed a very strong tendency for men to be very upset if other men watch their wife in a sexual manner. Women, on the contrary, don't like when their man watch others.

I think generally this is true, but can't be assumed to universal.

But in the end, does it matter what I think? If he FEELS bothered by this, isn't it kind of my problem? If my mission is to make him as happy and as satisfied with our marriage as is humanly possible, wouldn't I be a failure in that regard if I hurt him?

No, I don't see my role as in every aspect making my wife perfectly happy and satisfied. Marriage is a compromise. Sometimes it works the other way. Sometimes a mutual happiness can be achieved -- ideally.

I'm not sure this is an issue of happiness. On the whole, I want to make her happy however I can. But this doesn't address the point -- what would make her happier? Being told about my addiction or not knowing? From the point of view of just happiness, I think there is a case for the latter.

Your marriage is not consensual, because she hasn't consented to this.

I'm not sure this is an issue of consent either. Does your husband have to consent to everything you do?

but in the deceit,

So this then is I think the crux of the matter. and the one part I wrestle with. Is it actually deceitful to not tell my wife about my problem with porn? That's different that actively lying about it. But does my wife have a right to know this, so that not telling her is actually deceitful?

The assumption here is that significant porn use by a spouse must have a negative effect on the relationship always. I don't think that's true in general or nor in my case in particular. So the question could be put, does a spouse have a duty to report any bad habit even if it doesn't have any actual effect.

For example, say I had a martini with my lunch every day. That level of use isn't wonderful, but it is unlikely to have any effect on my health, my wife or anything else. But maybe I think my wife wouldn't approve - alcohol during the day isn't in line with what she would consider normal. Is it deceitful if I just enjoy my martini everyday and she never knows? What's the harm? (And just so it's known, my view is that it would not be necessary to tell a spouse about that.)

 

[Robinthehood]

My wife doesn't know about my porn addiction. She doesn't know about my bisexuality. She doesn't know anything about my extensive sexual history pre-marriage. (Other than porn, I've never had any sexual relationship with anyone other than her since we started going out.) We've been married almost 15 years and have a son.

We've had some issues with our relationship at times. We see a relationship therapist. At this point, with the therapist's help, our relationship is pretty good. While my porn addiction has had some effect on our relationship for sure -- particularly my sex drive with her, I think -- I don't think it has ever been a big source of relationship problems.

On here, it seems almost universally accepted that one has to tell one's spouse. It's presented as a prerequisite -- something one has to do in order to kick the addiction. I don't see that.

I've made significant progress in kicking my addiction. I see no reason why I can't kick it completely without telling my wife about it. Whatever benefits my marriage gains when I'm off porn are there whether or not I tell her.

Now, some suggest an understanding spouse is a help in dealing with this addiction. I get that. And there is also the consideration that she may discover this on here own, and it would be better to tell her pre-emptively. I get that. So there are good reasons for some to tell their partner about their addiction.

But, unless I'm missing something, I don't get the idea that this is a must in every relationship. And even more that this is something that has to be done to ever be successful with kicking a porn addiction.

Well done on all you've done to get off porn so far. Your choice of telling your wife or not doesn't sound like it's as simple as you write. I'm sure you know deep down why you have to tell her. If it doesn't make a difference if you tell her or not then why not tell her? Because you feel some resistance there? This porn addiction goes beyond the act of jerking off to a computer screen. It impacts our relationships. You have marriage counselling. It's affected your sex life. If you respect her then you owe her the explanation. 100 percent truthfulness and openness is the only way. Otherwise that meaningless secret you have will turn into a fucking sinkhole and swallow you again and again.
Of course I am not you. But this is an addiction as alcohol or cocaine. You can look up research on narcotic addiction and overlay it with porn addiction and its quite scary. Accountability is huge, it makes a line in the sand for others to see, and that can change everything. If you relapsed tomorrow you can hide it, if you then had to tell your wife perhaps that would be enough to close the laptop when you feel the urge instead of going along with it. Maybe your wife will turn out to be the keystone that keeps you going on the great trajectory you have made for yourself.
All the best!

 

[Lilla_My]

Nude camming and chatting with guys -- that's pretty close to actual cheating. I'd be concerned with that and where it was going.

But... since it wouldn't affect your marriage (that you knew of) and since it isn't cheating, it would be okay to not tell you?

Does your husband have to consent to everything you do?

Yes. Everything that has to do with other men and monogamy, 100% yes.

But does my wife have a right to know this, so that not telling her is actually deceitful?

If your view is that porn in moderation is good for you, and porn and other women are forever going to be involved in her life, then maybe she should be informed about that. She can't make a decision about her past, but she has the right to shape her future in her own best interest.

So the question could be put, does a spouse have a duty to report any bad habit even if it doesn't have any actual effect.

We don't know what effect it has, if any. All I know: my porn free husband rock my freaking world in bed. Maybe it would be a real treat for her to explore the sober you?