Texas school shooting

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  1. Raven King

    Raven King Fapstronaut

    Another mass shooting in Texas today. 16 dead. At an elementary school, it's so tragic. All these poor children and their families. But the worst part - it will probably happen again at another school.
    Will it never stop?
    Any why is this only a U.S problem?
    Other countries with liberal gun-laws don't have this problem.
    What can be done?
    Let's discuss, and please be civil.
     
  2. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    I am upset about this. How can all these little kids, aged 7-10, be dead? At least in the UK our kids do not go to school frightened that someone will come in and shoot up their school and murder them and/or their friends. The US is a bad country to allow this to happen over and over and over again. Death from gunshot wounds is the no. 1 killer of young people in the US. That is an indictment on the country as a whole and the legislators in particular. A bloody disgrace!

    The shooter, 18 year old Salvador Ramos, went in with an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle. I mean, why do civilians need these!?
     
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  3. Yeah, its unbelievably sad. The problem is the U.S. has two cultures: Northeast and West Coast city people/suburbanities who see firearm availability as a problem of public safety and Southern and Western rural suburbanites who see firearm availability as an issue of personal freedom. (There are plenty of First Amendment types in the Northeast and West also, but their numbers tend to be much higher in the South and the West). So everytime the issue of regulation is raised, both groups get lost in each others talking points, believing the other side doesn't respect them and their way of life.
    Add to this the fact Congress is paid off by the NRA and its a recipe for inaction.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
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  4. Dignan

    Dignan Fapstronaut

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    Things are unlikely to change anytime soon. The 2nd amendment will make any proposed change very hard.

    The interesting thing is gun ownership per capita in the US is not at an all time high. By state even, like Alaska, where gun ownership is probably the highest, even for assault style rifles, mass shootings are rare.

    There is definitely a problem in the US and I’m not denying the problem might even be the guns themselves, but damn…where to even start?! We don’t have an NHS or access to mental health. We are importing baby formula now?! College debt is crushing the futures of countless young people. I think the deepest problem is a profound sense of hopelessness. It’s sad in every way. We need to rethink the “American Dream.” We need to find hope somehow. That will at least be a start.
     
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  5. Dignan

    Dignan Fapstronaut

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    Very true. One correction, I think you meant 2nd amendment. :)
     
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  6. Dignan

    Dignan Fapstronaut

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    There is another interesting phenomenon. Any talk of gun restriction is going to cause MORE sales of guns not less. Discussing it seriously will create more profits for gun manufacturers and fuel more lobbyists. A huge portion of stimulus funds coupled with civil unrest from a couple years ago spark so much gun and ammo buying that it’s only now starting to recover. Any attempts to restrict them are sure to start a similar buying wave.
     
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  7. It's issues like gun control that have me thinking the U.S. is too large to govern properly. Our population is too spread out, too different from each other to relate, and we have to reach a consensus on major issues like this.
     
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  8. Dignan

    Dignan Fapstronaut

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    There is something to that.
     
  9. TakingTheSteps

    TakingTheSteps Fapstronaut

  10. TakingTheSteps

    TakingTheSteps Fapstronaut

    I don't always agree with Steven on everything, by any means, but these videos always give me a lot to think about. This particular subject, which he discussed a few years ago, definitely changed my perspective on a few things.



     
  11. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    I put this phrase into Google and it came up with these statistics. Shocking! Completely unnecessary IMHO.

    Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

    But that was my point buddy. It is ultimately the fault of the voters and of the legislators. We didn't always have the NHS. Somebody has to grow a pair and get it done. The problem it seems to me that everything in the US is about profit (e.g. health). But what civilised country does not care for the health of all it's citizens? Pay or die! What the hell is that? o_O
     
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  12. The flaw with Crowder's logic here is that he equates having a firearm with being safe, as if its a given in any dangerous situation where he's carrying a gun he'll be protected from harm. He may be able to defend himself, but this doesn't mean he's safe.

    @12:55 in the first video, he mentions background checks. To my knowledge these are only done on the state level, and only by states that permit them; there are no nation wide registries. Consequently, someone can buy a gun in a less restrictive state like Indiana and bring it back to a restrictive state like Illinois without anyone saying boo about it.

    @6:26 in the second video, Crowder is either wrong or being misleading. The First Amendment is not an unlimited right. Certain types of speech (i.e. causing a false panic, i.e. yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre) are not protected from prosecution or censure.

    Also, Crowder claims the student in the second video is wrong in his stastistics, but doesn't provide sources for his own.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2022
  13. Dignan

    Dignan Fapstronaut

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    I do not know what the hell it is. We are the world’s adolescent country, founded by rebels, built up by a rag tag group of diverse immigrants, held together by a document undergoing endless change, fueled by an economic system that rewards risk taking, disruptive innovation and extreme profit. We will one day need to decide if we agree with being like the majority of civilized nations or insist on being dangerously “free”. A third option is to split up the union if we can’t agree. But I don’t know. I’m just a porn addict trying to recover one day at a time. :)

    “Standing tough under stars and stripes, we can tell
    This dream's in sight, you've got to admit it
    At this point in time that it's clear
    The future looks bright
    On that train, all graphite and glitter
    Undersea by rail
    Ninety minutes from New York to Paris
    Well, by '76 we'll be a-okay
    What a beautiful world this will be
    What a glorious time to be free
    What a beautiful world this will be (Ooh, ah)
    What a glorious time to be free”

    I want to believe those words. One day.
     
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  14. TakingTheSteps

    TakingTheSteps Fapstronaut

    I don't think anybody thinks that having a gun means you're automatically safe in all dangerous situations. That's just silly. But it is an undeniable fact that you are more safe in many situations if you have the ability to defend yourself better, or even just the ability to show your attacker you have a weapon and have them decide you're not worth the risk to attack anymore.

    I have no idea whether that is true or not. I know nothing about background checks for purchasing a gun. Steven definitely knows far more about that than I do.

    Steven has said exactly that many times, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Everybody knows that certain types of speech are limited, such as the example you just gave. I've literally heard Steven use that exact example many times.

    I'm pretty sure he always gives the people he's speaking to all of his sources. But idk, it's been a while since I've watched this specific video.
     
  15. TakingTheSteps

    TakingTheSteps Fapstronaut

    It's difficult to talk about guns and gun control and the second amendment when it's always prefaced by some kind of tragedy that heavily implies that if you take the stance of being pro-gun, then you must not care about the tragedy that just occurred. Which is of course not true.

    Trying to discuss gun rights immediately after a tragedy like this would be like going to someone's funeral who just died of covid and striking up a conversation about whether or not we should have mask mandates. It's very difficult to speak freely about the issues when there is an implied judgement that if you say a certain thing, you are being disrespectful and have no compassion for the people who just tragically lost their lives.

    Tragedies like this are absolutely devastating to me. It honestly makes me sick to my stomach. I can hardly even bare to think about it. But that doesn't mean I agree that guns are evil and should be banned or that we have some kind of huge epidemic problem with guns in our country. And whenever people bring up other countries, they are conveniently leaving out a whole lot of other problems that taking away guns has caused. For example, the fact that many women in certain countries don't even feel safe leaving their houses after dark because they aren't legally allowed to have pepper spray or any means to defend themselves against attack.

    And while banning guns would likely reduce mass shootings, it doesn't necessarily follow that it would reduce violent crimes. And people also conveniently forget about all of the times guns have been used to stop violent crimes as well. This issue is so much more nuanced than most people make it out to be.
     
  16. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    I understand that. But have the conversation in 6 weeks or 6 months, but at least have it and follow through with action.
     
  17. TakingTheSteps

    TakingTheSteps Fapstronaut

    People have been having the conversation for years... it's not as if nobody is talking about this. It's pretty much a constantly held conversation in the US.

    And as for following through with action, following through with what exactly? Whose plan of action? Because people, obviously, disagree greatly on this subject. It's not like we are just sitting around not caring. Many actions have been taken. Banning guns hasn't happened, and I doubt that ever will happen in the US. So if that's the action you want us to follow through with, you will probably be waiting a while for that.
     
  18. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    I am not seeking a debate. But whatever actions have been taken have been ineffectual. There were 26 school shootings in the US last year! Active shooter lockdown drills are a common part of the school curriculum, from primary to high school. It is insane. How can every other country in the world be leading on gun safety and the US is in last place? o_O
     
  19. Fantasia

    Fantasia Fapstronaut

    This is another product of MKULTRA. No way....i would not exagerate if i say that someone is doing this in purpose to change our beautiful american constitution and disarm us...we will be slaves of our government.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  20. SPQR

    SPQR Fapstronaut

    The interesting bit is that this is the 27th school shooting in the US this year. Not a 27th shooting in total, but a 27th SCHOOL shooting. I think at this point American kids just look at their schedules and go "oh man, we have a shooting today, again".
     
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