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The Calorie Myth by Jonathan Bailor. Discussion.

Discussion in 'Nutrition and Supplements' started by Deleted Account, May 16, 2020.

  1. I’ve also eaten nothing but sugary garbage like Twinkies and donuts and cakes and a bunch of soda and still lost a bunch of weight because the rule of energy in vs energy out still applies regardless of what you’re shoving in your face. This is not my first rodeo. I’ve done this many times to show people why tracking is so important for weight loss. There are no macronutrients that make you fat while in a caloric deficit. Macronutrients only take on the characteristics of fat storage (such as glucose bonding with triglycerides) once you are consuming more calories (energy) than your body requires. This is when fat storage occurs. When you’re in a caloric deficit, things aren’t going to magically become fat. The only time this doesn’t apply is when you are starving yourself to the point that your body has to go into a sort of self defense famine mode and slows down your metabolism and stores everything as fat to preserve itself. But even this won’t last very long as you’ve probably seen with people who are starving or who have an eating disorder. You cannot gain weight while your body is expending more energy than it is taking in.

    There is a lot of bad information floating around out there, such as the idea that all fat is somehow bad. I read a ridiculous article just the other day saying coconuts are bad because they have saturated fat. This is like Super Saiyan next level ignorance, and on a health blog of all places. First of all, saturated fat is a vital precursor to hormone production so it’s important to at least consume some of it per day. But most importantly, the saturated fat in coconuts is what’s called a medium-chain triglyceride. Whereas most saturated fat is slow to digest, medium chain triglycerides boost metabolism and are quicker to digest. Not only that, normal triglycerides have 9 calories per gram and the medium chain fat in coconuts has 7 calories per gram.

    I 100% agree that calories aren’t just calories. The value of the nutrition you are getting in your food is important. The speed at which you lose weight will also be affected by what you eat. But you can eat nothing but ice cream and still lose weight. Lowering your carb intake is generally one of the quicker ways to lose weight, but people do that wrong too.

    I’ve been doing this a long time and I’ve had a lot of clients dread the idea of being on a diet. So for the first month or so I’d only have them track a specific caloric intake and eat whatever they want. The weight loss to them (and 100% of them lost weight) was very motivating and when they got that motivation I’d gradually work their diet into a healthy one, making changes here and there until eventually all they wanted to do was eat healthy, especially since they saw quicker weight loss when they started eating healthier.

    Anyway that’s my rant.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2020
  2. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    I believe we are converging onto the same conclusion. As i mentioned before, in the aggregate, energy is energy and our diets don't create nor remove energy from the cosmos. We agree there. Where we disagree is that what happens to MOST of us (your physiology seems to be a very blessed one, I am sure the type 2 diabetics would envy your ability to eat junk food and still lose weight and somehow stay healthy) is not a simple matter of calories in and calories out. Energy is used AND stored in a variety of ways and for a variety of purposes in the body.

    I'll give a specific example: Fructose can ONLY be metabolized in the liver. It's why fructose is very different than glucose. Your liver can store approximately 400 calories of energy. If you eat more than 400 calories of fructose, the excess will be stored as fat. On the other hand, if you eat, say, more than 400 calories of protein, the liver can direct the excess energy to muscles if that particular tank (muscles can store about 2000 calories) isn't full. Thus, your overall calorie deficit matters not in this case. A 500 calorie glass of orange juice will add to fat in this case, where a 500 calorie steak will not.

    You really SHOULD watch the Jason Fung video.

    Let's look at your argument from the perspective of limits: If I burned 2000 calories a day and every day I consumed 1999 calories of fructose, I would be both fat and diabetic. I might weigh less, but I'd be fat and sick.

    So I hearken back to the original poster's point: Implied in the title is that "only" calories matter......is a myth. I support that point. And our contemporary medical establishment overwhelmingly agrees.
     
  3. That's not a caloric deficit. I'm talking about a legitimate deficit where the energy expenditure creates measurable change within the body. I also already stated that this only applies to "healthy" people that don't have a thyroid condition or in your example ... diabetes. When other factors such as health issues that effect metabolism, insulin sensitivity, etc., everything changes. Even things like birth control pills can adversely effect hormones and make it almost impossible to lose weight. I'm talking about under normal healthy conditions, all you have to do is count your calories to lose weight. With everything else, your lifestyle and the way you eat is already drastically different than normal. Although some people still eat like crap even with diabetes, but that's another topic entirely.
     
  4. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Okay, I see and do get your point.
     
  5. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    But declaring the deficit I posited "not a deficit" is to utterly undermine your argument. So I guess you get to declare what "deficit" means.

    You've now become ridiculous.
     
  6. No it isn't. 1 calorie isn't a deficit. It doesn't undermine anything. It wasn't a good example. Being insulting on top of it is unnecessary.
     
  7. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    Perhaps it is but I normally eat within a four-hour window during my IM-fasts (sometimes within 2-3 hours only). During the weekends though, I do extend that fasting window a little (6-8 hours) if I am eating lunch/brunch out with family and friends. The key is to not have too of a strict fasting-routine but rather letting yourself enjoying lunches out once in a while, as long as no breakfast is eaten that day (the most unnecessary/pointless meal of the day).
    That breakfast just makes you eat a whole lot more during the day, despite what many BS-scientist tell about it being "The most important meal of the day". I dare say that the 3+ meals a day myth (where the food is largely made up of insulin-spiking grains) is one reason as to why we have an obesity epidemic today and many people are shamed into eating breakfast, because of social pressure and fear of being labeled as "anorexic".

    I feel your pain but 48 hours is still not bad. I have only made a 72 hour fast once but I remember it being quite hard to push through that last day of the fast. It was mixed feelings of extreme mental clarity and slight fatigue simultaneously. I feel that the IM-fasting and occasional 48-72 hour fasts have really helped me getting shredded, losing some excess body fat and made me feel full and satiated for the entire day.
     
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  8. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    You make good points. I totally agree with you on the "3 meals a day" nonsense. When I was young and visiting my grandparents I was taught how to fatten a cow: Feed it "anytime it wants to eat" and give it grains. Even better was to feed it corn. Which, by the way, if people really understood, you would rather have CORN fed beef and not grass fed. Corn fed, because of the glycemic index, fattens em up better.....more marbling.
     
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  9. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    That's why I always try to buy grass-fed beef or sheep as I don't want plenty of insulin-spiking corn-starch in the meat. Plus, the meat's quality declines a lot when the cattle is fed its unnatural food. I rather pay more than twice the price for a good piece of meat/chicken/ground-meat or fish rather than getting the cheaper, more junky version of it.
     
  10. Davidphd1866

    Davidphd1866 Fapstronaut

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    Angus, without revealing any details, what general area are you from? I ask because I am curious about where your beef likely comes from. I am only curious.

    I am in Los Angeles, but grew up in the midwest usa. Around a lot of beef farms.
     
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  11. Angus McGyver

    Angus McGyver Fapstronaut

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    I am Swedish and here (and in Switzerland), the laws and regulations around animal agriculture and livestock are quite strict in order to prevent animal abuse. I am normally quite anti-regulation overall but in this field, I see that it can make some sense.
    Even in our neighboring country Denmark, the livestock regulations are much more sloppy and the meat, pork and chicken is of much poorer quality (especially the pork). That's why I always buy our domestic meats, partially to suppor our farmers but also since I know those cheap pork-tenderloins or kasselers from Denmark, Germany or Ireland are of questionable quality (and animal-keeping) overall.
    They also taste quite blend to be honest but I can see why it's tempting for a family of four or more to buy those cheap tenderloins.
     
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  12. This is why I get my livestock from a friend that owns a farm. Too much weird and questionable things happening in this country (USA) with our livestock, such as treating them horrendously and injecting them with hormones so they overproduce. It's gross.
     
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