The Friend Zone

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by Panda.RN, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. Panda.RN

    Panda.RN Fapstronaut

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    I have been out with several women these last few months and I continue to run into the same problem. It seems that I am friend zoned after a first date. I am not insecure about myself, conversation comes easy (several women have explicitly told me that I am easy to talk to - I get that all the time) and the women genuinely seem to have a good time with me. I am attractive enough and I am physically fit. I have my own hobbies and interests that I pursue regularly. I participate in NoFap and I have relapsed recently but I in no way feel torn down with guilt or insecurity. So why am I friend zoned? Am I too "friend" friendly? Do I not come across as someone they could potentially have a romantic relationship with? I know it's probably futile asking people who don't know me in person but I can't really ask the women who friend zone me haha

    Responses are appreciated.
     
  2. DanTR

    DanTR Fapstronaut

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    Though life doesn't always confirm it, no one has to fall in love with you, even if you have all the required traits to sucessfully conquer someone.

    Sorry if this sounds rude, but it's the truth.

    You just haven't found a match. Either return to normal life or keep searching.
     
  3. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Hahaha, I love the term "friend zoned". As for your problem - I don't know man, maybe go ask them? You're friends after all.
     
  4. GoRob32

    GoRob32 Fapstronaut

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    Can you give an example?
     
  5. snrub

    snrub Fapstronaut

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    Friend zone = lack of proper sexual tension. She doesn't want another pussy, she wants pair of balls.

    It seems to be you are embarrassed by the fact that you have dick in your pants and you have desire to stuck it to someone cute enough. Dude. Girls are there to fuck you. But they can't let you fuck them if you don't turn on certain switches. Stop being so rational and become more emotional. Stop thinking about what you have and how you appear. Concentrate on what she is feeling. Is she getting aroused of not?

    You are not building any sexual tension. You just casually shit-chatting and making them giggle for lols. Stop talking to girls because of talking to girls. You are not dating so you can talk. It's not enough you make them giggle and blush because you are fun. You have to make them giggle and blush because there is so enormous amount of sexual tension in the air. You have to build up the tension so that girls want to rip your pants off.
     
  6. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Panda, There are soooo many possibilities...

    1) Where are you meeting these women? Is it a dating site? One of those places that's a pick-and-choose fest for women, where the ladies most likely to respond to you are the ones who are also first-dating dozens and dozens of other men? Not a bad deal for the gals, that. Fun conversation, nice contacts, free dinner.

    2) How do you know you're being "friend zoned"? Are you making moves and they're not working? Maybe your timing or body language is off. Do you have a great conversation, and then they hit you with "You're great to talk to, let's be friends and I will never sleep with you!"? Something strange is going on in that case. Or could you be giving up too quickly? When someone says "friends first and we'll see where this goes" often enough they mean it. That's not "friend zoned", that's just someone who doesn't want to jump into bed too quickly.

    3) What are you putting on the table? Excitement? Adventure? The potential for undying loyalty and rock-solid stability? Whatever it is, maybe it's a mismatch with the women you happen to be dating. Maybe you're marketing yourself to the wrong set. Maybe you need to think of other approaches to finding dates.
     
  7. snrub

    snrub Fapstronaut

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    That is limiting belief. It's not about not wanting to jump into bed too quickly. Any girl can jump right into bed with you if make it be so. It is all about what you do and what you don't do. It's all in genes. When they try avoid or postpone it all they are saying is simply "Sir, I have currently no intension to participate in sexual reproduction with you as things stand right now because my evolutionary biology background keeps telling me that I must denial access to my precious egg for those who are not manifesting tribal leadership behaviour strong enough. Either you man the fuck up or get friend zoned."
     
  8. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Yes, well, you will get laid faster if you're a bit of an ass about it.
    However, not every guy is playing the Get Any Chick You Want Game. Indeed, if your goal is to pursue the highest quality opportunities, playing the Lothario can work at cross purposes to that. Too much success, and you risk being "one-night-stand zoned", "exes-of-friends zoned" and even, "skeazy-40-year-old-at-spring-break zoned".
     
  9. Panda.RN

    Panda.RN Fapstronaut

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    First Abel - I honestly don't touch too often on a first date unless it happens completely organically. I'm not one to premeditate touching someone. Which I suppose being passive may send the wrong impression?

    DanTR - I suppose I will keep on being open to opportunities. I don't feel entitled to have someone love me right from the get go. I just want to understand myself better in how I may present myself to those I am interested in.

    Ekhangel - I just may go do that today lol I am going biking with a girl I am currently in the friend zone with. And I don't mean that in a negative way. She is good company and shares a common interest. So I count that as a success in making a new friend.

    snrub - I am not embarrassed by my manhood in the slightest. I simply don't see women as beings that are put on this earth to "fuck me". Sex to me is secondary and not everything. That is why I am here - to put sex in it's proper place in my life. I want to have a meaningful relationship with someone and sex is something I will get to enjoy with them but it is not my main motivation.

    e5s - A few have been set ups but the majority are online dating site contacts. I think you are onto something with my body language. I am not a very forward guy. As I responded to Abel earlier in this post I don't touch too often unless it happens naturally and without me thinking about it. I feel weird about touching someone else if I think about it and I want to do it. I don't know if that makes sense. And honestly, I'm not very experienced with dating as a young adult. I mean I go on plenty of dates but this is a recent thing and I have been in a few relationships before (one being a failed marriage and another being the darkest period of my life). Those two started off way too fast for me and too sexual too soon and they both crashed and burned pretty hard. As I'm writing this I am realizing why I tend to try to keep some distance physically - even though it is a subconscious thing and I don't realize it at the time. I suppose I am trying to protect myself from experiencing what I have in the past when sex came too soon.

    How do you be physically close with someone without giving the impression that you want to have sex with them? I think that's my fear. Now I'm starting to ramble. Help me please lol Thanks for all your responses. I'm just trying to learn about myself. I really appreciate it!
     
  10. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    That's a bit of my story too. I was 19 when I met my first girlfriend. We went wild from the very starters - my first kissing and first sex was at the same day, in her house. I kinda met her by accident. She was a web friend of my friend's which I somehow got to know in a Skype conference, and decided to drive to her place (which was 180 km away) "just for fun". We ended up in bed some hours after my arrival. She was 15, we "fell in love", but I am pretty sure now it was more her intimate areas that I was in love with. We were very "sexually active" throughout our 1,5 year relationship, until it started wearing out (Coolidge Effect, maybe?) and she cheated on me in a particularly vicious manner. The period of coming to terms with her side games is what I also would call the "darkest period of my life".

    Then, feeling lonely, living on my own, not really knowing what to do I got into another relationship with a woman that I met over a public chat, this time her living 350 km away. We saw each other two times, almost had sex at the second time, after which I realized she isn't really my type. It hurt her badly - this time it was I who turned out to be the asshole. After that I had an encounter with another young girl (I didn't even know her age for sure, but can only hope no law was violated in the process) that ended with a couch adventure in my flat. She was very young, naive and emotionally unstable, and ENTIRELY not my type. The relations between us two ended quickly and without much ado.

    So, coming to my point now: from my past experiences and failures I learned that all my relationships with women were motivated by desperation, a desperate need to interact with females in any way - mostly sexual, even if this was subconscious. This distorted the clarity of my vision, made me act irresponsibly and self-destructively. With much shame and disappointment with my pathetic attempts from the past I decided to just give it a break with women, and learn to live on my own, remaining open to any potential opportunities. I live a generally lonely life, working from home and not having many friends (the two I have study and have their gfs, not leaving much time for me). I figured I first have to engage myself in activities that will expose me to any contact with people of my interests, passions. Philosophy clubs, classical music environments - all these stand open to me, and it is precisely how I now intend to progress with my life: gradually and at peace with myself. NoFap has taught me patience and restraint necessary to take that course.

    Dating websites might at first seem like a good way to find your soul mate. But I think what you primarily have to do is to become a soul mate with yourself. Dating websites are for people that have no other opportunities to interact with others, they find it difficult for some reason or are feeling insecure about themselves. If such is the case, then I would first and foremost focus on solving that very problem, because that is the root of your struggle. Besides, dating websites create this aura of artificiality, really. There's nothing truly romantic in it. They sort of mechanize human relations, with both parties having their minds set up in advance for "partner seeking". This IMHO creates a ridiculous and unnecessary tension, shallowing things down. What I would personally prefer is more spontaneousness, more romanticism, bigger challenges in approaching women and thus bigger satisfaction. Just imagine if your son asks you in 20 years "Dad, how did you meet mom?" How do you think he'd feel with you saying "Well, I just liked her profile image and sent her an invitation."
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  11. Panda.RN

    Panda.RN Fapstronaut

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    I don't approach online dating with the idea of finding my soul mate. I think that's a little ridiculous actually. But I do or did expect that I might encounter some genuine people hoping to find companionship whatever their reason was for joining an online site to begin with. I agree with you on the fact that it is very artificial. I have come to realize this more so recently. And I also agree that it is not the most ideal way to meet others. I do prefer a more organic and natural way. My church doesn't have very many young ladies to choose from and my job is full of people I'd prefer not to associate with outside of work. I do exercise regularly but it is usually solo because I bike a lot and run. I'm hoping to get involved in some races and maybe meet people through this avenue. Not all hope is lost and I am optimistic about the future. I hope to go back to school as well which will hopefully open more doors. I know who I am and I know what I want. This past year has been nothing but soul searching and introspection and I am secure in who I am now. I wasn't able to say that in the past.
     
  12. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    Panda,

    It sounds like you're in a much better position now than in the past. Congratulate yourself on your progress in building a healthy mental outlook!

    "How do you be physically close with someone without giving the impression that you want to have sex with them?"
    Undoubtedly, the girls are asking themselves the very same question. And they don't know either! That's probably why, if you're making unsure signs that you might be moving in for a kiss, they're thinking, "Aaaaahhh, I don't know yet, let's back off a bit."

    Maybe the best thing to do is to embrace being friends for a long time, go out and do things together, and then, if you feel a spark, ask in words if she wants to take things to a physical level. You give her the opportunity to say no, you're having a dialogue anyway so it's a great time to discuss boundaries and pacing, and provided that you're not rude and desperate, the friendship can continue if romance is a no-go. This is so much better than other ways of selecting a girlfriend, because you can have many female friends at once, get to know them very well, and get to know their friends and family, and then decide. You're not stuck in the cycle of meet-romance-decide-breakup-repeat, which is draining and breaks hearts. Hey, maybe one of the girls you're seeing now has a sister who was born to rock your world. Taking things slow and chaste, you can later marry the sister without fear of lifelong awkwardness with the in-laws! (As an example, my husband's sister did this. Went to a few dances with a classmate, met his brother, made the switch, and now they're happily married with kids. No premarital sex, no jealousy, no problem. So it can work.) :)
     
  13. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Companionship, you say? I'd personally much prefer having male companions. But that's up to you.
     
  14. e5s

    e5s Fapstronaut

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    I'm going on second-hand information here, but although there are drawbacks to using dating sites, it's not true anymore that they're only used by those who have no other opportunities to interact. I know several well-adjusted, social people who met their mates through a dating site. It's a tool that can be used to meet new people, just like any other. Ask these couples how they first met, they'll answer very naturally with, "Oh, we messaged first, and then..." segue into a lovely story about their first in-person interactions. Beats meeting in a seedy bar, that's for sure.
     
  15. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Having said "it's a tool that can be used to meet new people, just like any other" you could as well say "brothels are just a way to have sex with a woman, just like any other ways of having sex with women such as marriage".

    I just don't like the materialistic, "mechanical" and artificial aura around dating websites, just as much as I despise brothels. I don't know about the well-adjusted and social acquaintances of yours so no comment here. I know many people who could be called "well-adjusted" but whose aesthetic and ethical preferences completely mismatch mine. We obviously do acknowledge here that there is no one "good" way of meeting people. We can only inquire into what long-term consequences might certain methods have in the future - having also considered different ambitions and goals. Something tells me - and I can't know it for sure - that the abovementioned artificial aura in itself devalues the relationsip, which is no more a product of genuine, romantic, somehow instinctive and maybe even a little impulsive struggle of a man to gain a woman's admiration (ok, let's say it can work the other way round too, not to be 'sexist'...), but instead becomes an effect of a bilateral, shallow agreement on just being with each other for the sake of fulfilling certain emotional and physical needs. And the way those websites work (through catalogues, profiles, personal data etc - reminds me of a cattle fair) just puts me off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  16. You must appear as a stable person who has has his own ideas about life.

    You must appear as someone who HAS AN OPINION, who STANDS UP at times, who will DECIDE, who will LEAD, who does his own thing, according to HIS OWN RUILES.


    That's the whole secret. Don't go with the crowd. Be a person who has character. You don't need to be an "asshole" or a "macho". No, no. But you need to know what you want, and you need to have character.

    Women are interested in STRONG persons. If you are like a watchtower in the sea, they will come to you.

    They are also very similar to cats. If you chase them, they run away. But if you are just quiet, show them some food, this will awake their interest, they will come to you and cuddle.

    I can tell you by my own first-person-experience: Success with women has nothing to do with PMO or with your looks, or other things.

    I was always very successful with women, even although (or probably BECAUSE?) I did not want that!
    From age of 16 on, I was always very successful in the working world, and there were multiple girls who very clearly showed interest in me, some even "stalked" me (calling me every day, waiting at the subway staton for me, ... ). I even rejected some of these women, because I almost was afraid of them or because I did not want to live with them. It hurt me, and I know it hurt them, but I knew that I didn't want to be with them.
     
  17. But why would you want to give that impression? I thought you WANTED sex? ;-)

    If you want to give "impressions", you are wrong. Your emotions must be TRUE. Girls are the most high-sensitive "emotion detectors" in the world, you can't cheat them.

    During a conversation, look deeply in her eyes and watch her reaction. Only with YOUR EYES, be extremely attentive to her. Listen to her. Listen to your intuition. Almost every girl wants to kiss, and there is some magic moment when you know that "she wants it NOW". (I emphasize NOW, because a girls's mood swings rapidly, in 10 minutes, it might be different)

    I cannot put this in words, because it is something which happens at a highly intuitive and emotional level. You can watch in her some reactions like blushing, deeper breath, lowering her voice, pushing back her head a little, etc.... It is a moment where you know that she "wants you", and in this moment, you can very slowly come near to her ... Believe me, this is one of the greatest moment in life !!

    BTW, I am also a musician, and this experience is very similar to creating "tension" and "relieve" in music.

    As I said, one of the keys is that YOU must be a STABLE person. If you are "needy" or if you are "chasing" them, they will run away, far away.

    I also liked to dance for a while (classical dancing), and I learned that women want to be "lead".
     
  18. A last word - since I am a musician, I think I know something about emotions:

    In music, it does not matter WHAT you play - it is important HOW you play.

    There are guys how have the best technique, they play like hell, but still, it sounds mechanical, and nobody is really impressed.

    But then, there guys who play just some few notes and people are touched and totally overwhelmed.

    The secret is: You must create TENSION. *** TENSION *** !!!

    The same is true for any romantic encounter! It is not important WHAT you say, it is important HOW you say it.

    Last hint: If you are talker, then try to talk LESS. Instead, LISTEN. Make PAUSES. Make some space such that tension and emotions can grow.
     
  19. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    You do know about the magical "Edit post" button, Freedom.
     
  20. That is the secret! Tension gets her excited and wakes her interest.
     

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