The Origin of Femdom

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ZenAF, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. Longtime27

    Longtime27 Fapstronaut

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    @ZenAF A very interesting and articulated post - one I intend to read again with a clearer head.
    In the small but frequent moments where our minds crave Femdom (particularly the visual/video stimulation kind), it rarely ever occurs where such 'impulses' are coming from. I feel like Femdom has become an 'acting before thinking' coping mechanism for me, but you're right that it doesn't lead me to any life fulfilment because you sacrifice parts of yourself if you travel down that path. Thanks for making me take a step back and think more thoroughly about it!
     
  2. More2Life

    More2Life Fapstronaut

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    I know I'm late to this post but im new here and was browing.

    I actually read Origins of History of consciousness by Neumann and can vouch for everything it has to offer. Very interesting book that looks at the stages of overcoming ones own proclivity to falling into the unconscious. It can be a difficult read and uses much symbolism but its very worth it even if you can only follow 25% of it.

    If you're not much of a reader, Jordan Peterson has many youtube lectures on Jungian psychology and is very good at explaining many key points (especially the hero myth) in an understandable way
     
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  3. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    I've watched all of Maps of Meaning back in 2016, that's how I got to know Neumann in the first place. I'm currently reading Jung's Man and his symbols. Good book but not quite in depth enough, looking forward to read more of his work.
     
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  4. PappinAce

    PappinAce Fapstronaut

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    Super interesting. Man and his Symbols came to mind when I read your post; in one of the later chapters Jung discusses the mythological figure of Rangdas, who embodies the devouring mother, quite literally trying to swallow people whole. This is typical in the modern day, with the "me me me" attitude of society. Parents view their children as "theirs" and so you get a lot of smother love that pretends to be selfless love.

    You mentioned in your opening post that we are still dependent on nature but in a different way than before. This is a great point. Before our species fell into the trap of agriculture, we lived as foragers. Contrary to the cliches of "red in tooth and claw", forager life is quite leisurely and ecstatic; the earth provides fruit without being forced. The earth was our benevolent mother, and our role was indeed more passive, but not in an unhealthy way. We accepted and loved her fruits, all the while accepting that we ourselves are fruit on her branches, and identifying ourselves in this way allowed us to accept death humbly and graciously. Nowadays people are so attached to their physical selves that death is viewed as some terrible finality from which we need "saving".

    Now, in the narcissistic age where everyone seems to think they are god, mothers love the power they have over their children (having been subjugated by the capitalist machine and herded like cattle, the children that they give birth to are pretty much the only living beings over whom they hold power. Maybe also their pets, and the relationships with those tend to be just as tyrannical and abusive). So now we have these smother-mothers who want to play the role of mother earth for their babies. But this is of course a delusion of grandeur. Until reading this topic I had never made the connection of being smothered by overprotective parenting, and growing up to derive pleasure from the sexualized version of it.

    Our understanding of "responsibility" when it comes to bread winning is no longer passive; in industrialized society, the approach has to be active, but in an almost compulsive way, like trying to force yourself to defecate, or indeed masturbate, when the urge isn't even there. What I think is happening is that the frantic "rat race" lifestyle of hyper-industrialization is one of compulsive activity, and so we seek refuge in the polar opposite of compulsive passivity, which is where femdom comes in. The point is that both are compulsive behaviors. Whether you're some macho loudmouthed jock or a submissive weasel who wants to be tied up by girls, either way is unhealthy.

    Probably the only environments where a harmonious balance exists would be in indigenous communities and Zen monasteries. The challenge we face is to make our own lives healthy while living in the sickness of modern society, surrounded by the masses who try their best to make life on earth into a hell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
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  5. Cprelude

    Cprelude Fapstronaut

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    I would like to do damage to some of the producers of femdom and the sadasticwomen I've seen, I truly hate them
     
  6. chapuleta

    chapuleta Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys i got rid of my femdom porn addiction getting girls on real life, i realized that i really have a little percent of submissive desires, but femdom porn makes you goes 100% fully submissive minded, that is the danger about femdom porn.
     
  7. Highflyer77

    Highflyer77 New Fapstronaut

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    No porn addiction, but I like my wife to take control in the bedroom. Otherwise I am the Alpha, with a high power job. etc. At times the stress would temp me to use her silkies to fap. Came across a chastity site called kept for her. Not quite femdom, and we dialed it down even more to this: No erection = no urgent desire for orgasm. No need for a key holder if you don't have one, or wife does't want the hassle as in our case. (Not into the power exchange). Once the trainer is on, I don't want to take it off, so key can lay around. But we are together now the master of my member. I no longer get those erections that temp me. Great for the chaste lifestyle single or married. I am devoted to her sexually only. She loves that I can give her a massage for an hour putting her to sleep without being needy. Whatever she wants. Together we control my member, not it us. Shoot holes in this routine if you can. I would be interested in other viewpoints. I have been reading the same book by Neumann. Deep. And wondered if a part of the desire to let go in the bedroom. But using a Holy Trainer has kept me totally chaste toward her for many months.
     
  8. This is complicated. I agree with you, although I did not converge towards femdom but receiving passive from shemales. I think you can build the same logic around that fetish.
    Also, with my wife, I do like when she sometimes is on top and moves while I can just watch her having fun. (I also like being active, doggy style and so on).

    However, isn't it normal to adore his wife? To respect her? To see the family, the house as a retreat from the world outside? The relationship itself is a place of confidence and the responsibility is shared? Where is the point where it gets pathological?
     
  9. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    Yes, exactly. That's a good summary.
     
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  10. Master Chips

    Master Chips Fapstronaut

    What about BDSM as a whole ? We find many female subs to males (Masters). And this is a majority more than femdom.

    This also means that Femdom as a concept is natural. If we need to explain femdom, then we have to go to the root of it (Masochism).

    Sorry but I disagree with the link you mentioned between Femdom (which is lust dependence) with what you have mentioned in the post about maturity.
     
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  11. fedmom

    fedmom Fapstronaut

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    Yes it's sexual masochism disorder. It's genetic to a certain extent but anyone can cure it with serotonin neurotransmission.
     
  12. Master Chips

    Master Chips Fapstronaut

    It could be genetic. There could be different reasons to become a masochist; I have asked different people who had femdom fantacies, they had foot fetishes before puberty, and then it developed to femdom later. If you notice (at least to me) some of cases of those who were into masochism have a foot fetish background. What I read in some psychology's article that mistreatment of foot fetish such as feeding it with fantacies like socks, shoes.. etc can be a start of masochism.

    This is not the only case, but in some situations people get into femdom after long term of pornography consumption. In my opinion this has two reasons; 1- Due to excessive fantacies and fetishes, dopamin will keep asking for more until the consumer reaches that state, this can lead to other things as gay pornography ?
    2- excessive pornography makes us beta males > submissives> masochists later ?

    Whatever the reason was, there no link between Natural growth of (Holding responsability/dependency/ maturity) ---⟩ with a lustful factor that we gained due to A Reason in some part of life.

    Memebers who reached 180+ days of Nofap proved that all femdom fantacies have gone from their mind.
     
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  13. fedmom

    fedmom Fapstronaut

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    When you masturbate to femdom porn you feel regret afterwards which increases the delta-fosb, which leads to it becoming more addictive. Delta-fosb drops significantly after resisting the addiction for 90 days for any behavioural type addiction. This doesn't increase serotonin however so it won't stop you being turned on by femdom porn.
     
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  14. Master Chips

    Master Chips Fapstronaut

    Regret is caused by any type of masturbation
     
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  15. fedmom

    fedmom Fapstronaut

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    You'll only feel regret if it's a fetish. Even dominant fetishes cause regret because they are a paraphilia.
     
  16. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    I would word that more carefully if I were you, since I'm deriving my knowledge base from Dr. Neumann who studied the development of archetypes and their impact on human psyche extensively throughout his life. I paraphrased his work, I didn't do much interpretation at all. I don't see on what basis you can dismiss the link between femdom and psychological development so confidently.

    Please note that the post I wrote refers to why a man would be attracted to femdom. It's a psychological regression back into absolute comfort. Total loss of responsibility. The opposite of consciousness. Men grow up under the protection and surveillance of their mothers and through proper guidance they slowly detach themselves as teenagers and become independent adults.
    But sometimes there can be holes in that development and parts of the male are not ready to let go of mommy. Now obviously a grown man let's say in his twenties will (in most cases) not choose to live with his mom or even consciously admit that parts of him are clinging to her. Nevertheless those immature parts of the psyche will come to light and they often do that in the state of sexual arousal, where the unconscious is unhinged and the deepest desires are awakened. It's called the Oedipus complex established by Sigmund Freud. Mostly it's caused by a triangle constellation, where the child is attracted to the opposite sex of the parent and wants to exclude the other parent.
    See the man wants to express his sexual energy either way, whether he's mature or not. But to express it towards another mature woman he needs to be mature himself or he will not possess the confidence and be afraid of her in which case he won't feel attracted. So he will look for the type of woman who will act like his mom, taking care of him.

    I give you an example with how the Oedipus complex developed in me:
    My father left me and my mom when I was two years old. Then my mom was single for two years. Age 2-4 for me, which is a crucial time in a childs development, ask any psychologist. In that time I was alone with my mom, consoling her when she was crying, I naturally assumed a protective role. Then my mom met a cop and they soon married. I never quite accepted him as my new dad, even tho he was very nice and taught me many things. But my unconscious felt like he stole my mom from me. From the age of 5 or 6 I started to have dreams where I had sex with mom. When I woke up remembering the dreams, they disturbed me. I never felt attracted to my mom when I was awake. But inside the dream it felt natural to have sex with her. I stopped having the dreams when I was around 13. But with 17 I started doing drugs and the sexual image of my mom, who's objectively speaking very attractive, led me to masturbate thinking about her. I was never attracted to her when I was around her, I was thinking about an idealized sexual image in my fantasy. It wasn't the main thing in my sexual interests, more like a side-fetish, but it persisted until the age of 20. Interestingly I also had a lot of fights with mom during that time. And as I matured and started to resolve my issues with her, bettering our relationship, my desires for her sexual image vanished. But in the porn world the desire for the mommy image didn't completely vanish, it abstracted into femdom. But every time I got into the state of jerking off to femdom I clearly recognized that it was the same state of mind I was in when I used to think about my mom. Submissive, being delightfully exploited.

    Now I'm 27, I've learned a lot, I've apologized to my mom for being angry at her and forgave her for messing up many things in my upbringing. My interest for femdom is practically non-existend now.

    Do I suggest that men who are into femdom have mommy issues? Yes. Do I think everybody who got into femdom wants to or did at one point want to bang their mothers? No. This pathology can take on many forms but it ultimately has the same roots.
    I think we can all agree that the femdom fetish is in fact pathological, because nothing good comes from it in the long-term. And all psychological pathologies have their roots in immaturity or trauma.



    Now when a woman chooses to be a dominatrix she's unwilling to play the traditional female role of submitting herself to a male. So she becomes like a man herself, assuming a power role, wearing a strap-on, fucking guys up the ass.
    That's often linked to daddy issues, which disturbs her relationship to the masculine. The results can become sadistic which lead her to become dominant or masochistic which lead her to become promiscuous. Either way she's unwilling to form a reciprocal relationship with a man. Carl Jung established that the main archetypal story a female needs to go through in her development is that of Beauty and the Beast. Wherein she's naturally afraid of the beast but needs to learn that by loving the beast, she allows him to be a civilized man and have a relationship with him. When she becomes a dominatrix she chooses to fight and win against the beast (masculinity), by using the sexual power she has over him. That's how she deals with her fear, attack is the best defense. When she becomes a **** she believes the beast will always stay a beast, but if she offers him her body (not her love!) it will not harm her. The promiscuous mindset also comes from a deep lack of self-esteem which leads to self-hatred and self-corruption.

    It's scary to think about how certain events and constellations in our lives can turn our psyches into vicious entities working against us.

    Again, I'm condensing large packages of information into a few phrases, but believe me I don't just pull that stuff out of my ass. There are great men who spend their lives understanding these psychological patterns and it's thanks to them that we're not tapping in the dark anymore like we used to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
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  17. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    The problem is that your wife is a woman and a woman innately craves a relationship with a man who owns himself and won't let himself be dominated, because that is a fully matured male. And if your wife ever encounters such a guy who's attracted to her and she senses that he out-classes her, she'll want him. She won't be able to help herself. Right now she enjoys the power she has over you. And I know you described yourself as the alpha except for the bedroom. But if she owns your cock she owns you, no matter what you tell yourself.
    To use the analogy of the late and great Patrice O'Neal: Your wife is a female great white shark and you're a penguin. She's gonna have fun playing with you for a while, but ultimately she's looking for that male white shark which she knows she can't dominate. And she's gonna be bored of you and drop you like a used fruit.
    Now don't be offended by this please, but when I said there are no successful long-term relationships where the woman holds absolute power over the man, I meant it. You may be able to play this game for another couple years. Maybe even for the rest of your life, if you're lucky. But the safe route would definitely be to develop yourself, say goodbye to the penguin life and become a great white.

    Yes it's normal to adore her. The point where it's pathological is when you can't imagine a life without her. You should always have let's say 5% of yourself that you keep to yourself and you don't give to her. A sense of pride and the knowledge, that when push comes to shove you can go and find another woman and be just as happy. And that's the truth. But it's a scary truth and it takes a lot of self-confidence. So many men shy away from that and they rather get into the Disney-"You're-the-only-one-for-me" mentality which is bad. Women can sense that and they lose attraction towards the guy. Remember this: A woman will never leave you until she knows she owns your balls.
    In a way it's paradoxical, but to keep a relationship strong and healthy, you need to keep your independence. You need to stay in the mindset of "I can get by on my own, I can afford to lose her" and you need to mean it. And just like magic they will love you. Because you're mature, you're not turning them into your mom.
     
  18. Master Chips

    Master Chips Fapstronaut

    Thank you for deeper clarification, I am convinced!

    That's right, I used to think about it sometimes; showing the "need" / "deep relation" (The lack of something without her) to a girl like she is the only one and non else will make her lose interest in the man. Also this is why Females are not interested with Feminist men for example! who are usually beta males. A female is naturally dominated by male and that is how it should be at least in the major cases.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2020
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  19. fedmom

    fedmom Fapstronaut

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    I would say though that most men (if not all men), who are turned on by femdom, wish they weren't turned on by it. "Mr.Chips" is right to say the root cause is sexual masochism disorder which is caused by anxiety and depression. The "hole in development" is simply very low serotonin and gray matter in the nervous system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  20. rohanpuch

    rohanpuch Fapstronaut

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    This is indeed complicated. We had a chat over this on a forum I used to be a part of elsewhere. Now, I haven't read any of the works, in fact, most ideas I have are my own and such things only seem to confirm what I observed happening around me. I was 13 when porn addiction hit me. It was when my dad had left for work outside the country we were in. It led to some difficulties. I was living with my mom and as you described it, it was shit. To be honest, if that sort of a thing continued for a bit longer, the unspeakable would've happened. She would deliberately put me down, spy on me and cook up stories that she told dad about my doings that were specifically aimed at destroying my sense of self, my own view of myself. Now, I didn't develop femdom-like issues but my pornography addiction solidified in the process. Also, something weird happened. I developed some extreme opinions on women. I believe that to be the reason why all my relationships were extremely short lived. Even now, I get those flashbacks where my mother would just humiliate me for me having playfully teased my younger brother. The bitterness runs so deep it's almost as if it's a part of me. This may seem like a superficial input on the forum but a lot of what I do now is driven by not me, but my pursuit of organizing myself subconsciously. I can feel me in there but have forgotten what it was like to be normal.
     
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