Thunder, Perfect Mind: 60 Days

Discussion in 'Success Stories' started by L Coroneos, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut


    It seems altogether premature to write a success story after what seems like such a short time of having been PMO-free, but since I have met the criterion for posting in this section, I feel that I may be able to contribute something of use to others. I'm thinking that more like six months off the porn and masturbation would make for a real success story, and as such, I consider this 60 days to be simply a milestone and not the end of the road. As I am feeling particularly creative due to this latest streak, I have chosen to name this thread after an ancient Gnostic poem written originally in Greek by an anonymous author and spoken by an unnamed narrator, called "Thunder, Perfect Mind."

    The poem is worth a read, but what I want to explain right here and now is how I got to 60 days, for the benefit of newcomers and especially habitual relapsers (such as I used to be), and if this should help at all any of you guys with MORE clean time than I have, then that is an added bonus. I would like to express my gratitude to those from whom I have learned so much in such a short time; you guys have been fantastic. Thank you all.

    How to stop

    In order to stop masturbating with or without pornography, I had to confess to myself that I was an ADDICT. Do not let that word alarm you, now. If you are on this site reading this right now, you are either a) not a porn addict, in which case you need no help, b) in complete control of your MO/porn use, in which case you also will not need my advice, or c) also an ADDICT. Being an addict doesn't mean you are weak or evil or devoid of willpower; it simply means that you cannot stop or moderate your porn use or masturbation without help, preferably some form of moral psychology such as we see in the NoFap Academy and Twelve-Step programs.

    You will need to rigorously analyse yourself in any case at first in order to get that initial clean time, and you should also:

    1. Avoid triggers. The amount of guys who just start off dabbling in some "softcore" stuff and subsequently relapsing is astronomical -- it happens ALL THE TIME. Don't fool yourself into thinking that bra catalogues, etc. are safe. If possible, practise the No Arousal method by avoiding staring at (ogling) women on the street, on television, on Facebook, and everywhere else. Avert your eyes!

    2. Learn to deal with negative emotions. Chances are, you are not going to feel 100% every moment of every day. Anxiety and depression may strike when you are at your most vulnerable. Don't let the fact that you've been dumped, rejected, fired, insulted, or called nasty names cause you to relapse. Learn some coping mechanisms -- things that make you feel good when you're down (not drugs, please). For me, writing is very therapeutic, and I also connect with fellow Fapstronauts whenever I feel sociable. Participate in discussions and make friends. Learn to listen to others, and to understand your own emotional troughs and plateaus.

    3. Start a journal (if you haven't already). Don't bitch and whine in it. Simply use it to monitor your progress, and if you relapse, ask yourself, "Ok, where did I go wrong, and what am I going to do differently this time around?" Learn from your mistakes.

    4. Stick to your initial resolution. If you've promised yourself not to masturbate or look at porn for (X) days, why suddenly drop that valuable decision in the heat of the moment and return to your old miserable ways? Set yourself a short-term goal to start with and then work your way up. Or don't have a goal at all; just make being PMO-free a lifetime commitment while recognising each 30 days or so as a new milestone.

    5. Change your attitude by educating yourself on the horrors of pornography addiction and what it does to your brain. Again, unless you are in total control over your addiction -- and chances are, you aren't -- you must treat it as a true addiction, not just a "bad habit" or a "phase."

    6. (Optional) Find a Higher Power of your own conception. Don't take up anyone else's concept of God without putting it to the test. It doesn't matter if you are Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Taoist, Zoroastrian, Pagan or Jedi: if you feel you could use the help of a Superior Power, "ask and ye shall receive." As NoFap is a secular porn-recovery website, I have listed this guideline as optional, but I believe it is very useful and good.

    Other, more experienced Fapstronauts may have tips and pointers of their own to add; anyone who wishes to add any suggestions is most welcome to do so. By the way, these are all easy tips, folks!

    Something more difficult

    Now I shall give you something a little more difficult: a quote from Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra.

    "In truth," said Zarathustra, "Man is a polluted river. One must be a sea to receive a polluted river without becoming defiled. I bring you the Superman! He is that sea; in him your great contempt can be submerged." (Prologue, Section 3)

    Do you want to live as a porn-addicted masturbator all your life? Or do you look for some higher purpose? To transcend who and what you are at the moment is that higher purpose. We have two choices: active addiction and recovery. You know the outcome of the first choice; that's why you are here right now. NoFap offers you a chance to grow, be creative, develop your talents, and become more than you are, simply by remaining abstinent from PMO and actively working on yourself to achieve milestones in recovery. It's really very simple, but it is we who make it complicated. Also, it's your look-out to take up your own challenge and blaze a trail to success.

    Try to envision the best possible life for yourself and systematically state your hopes, goals and aspirations. Believe it or not, recovering through NoFap (or a Twelve-Step program like S.L.A.A.) can lead you to accomplish all your highest objectives if you are simply capable of staying porn/MO-free day by day. You may not get exactly what you wish for, however, and when problems come your way you may feel that life has dealt you a bad hand, but you will always get what's most beneficial to your own personal development provided you are capable of working yourself out. I cannot do this for you, but I can give you a valuable clue: YOU ARE AN ADDICT. At first, this is something difficult to take on board.

    Once you realise that and start to make changes in your life, everything else seems to fall into place. As for me, my approach has gotten me 60 days up. Here's to another 30, and once I hit 90 I will feel like I can really advise others to some extent as to how to recover and stay clean. Until then, all this may just be the rambling of an addict, so let's take a break and have some poetry, shall we?

    I was sent forth from the power,
    and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
    and I have been found among those who seek after me.
    Look upon me, you who reflect upon me,
    and you hearers, hear me.
    You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
    And do not banish me from your sight.
    And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
    Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard!
    Do not be ignorant of me.

    For I am the first and the last.
    I am the honored one and the scorned one.
    I am the whore and the holy one.
    I am the wife and the virgin.
    I am <the mother> and the daughter.
    I am the members of my mother.
    I am the barren one
    and many are her sons.
    I am she whose wedding is great,
    and I have not taken a husband.
    I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
    I am the solace of my labor pains.
    I am the bride and the bridegroom,
    and it is my husband who begot me.
    I am the mother of my father
    and the sister of my husband
    and he is my offspring.
    I am the slave of him who prepared me.
    I am the ruler of my offspring.
    But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
    And he is my offspring in (due) time,
    and my power is from him.
    I am the staff of his power in his youth,
    and he is the rod of my old age.
    And whatever he wills happens to me.
    I am the silence that is incomprehensible
    and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
    I am the voice whose sound is manifold
    and the word whose appearance is multiple.
    I am the utterance of my name.

    Why, you who hate me, do you love me,
    and hate those who love me?
    You who deny me, confess me,
    and you who confess me, deny me.
    You who tell the truth about me, lie about me,
    and you who have lied about me, tell the truth about me.
    You who know me, be ignorant of me,
    and those who have not known me, let them know me.

    For I am knowledge and ignorance.
    I am shame and boldness.
    I am shameless; I am ashamed.
    I am strength and I am fear.
    I am war and peace.
    Give heed to me.

    I am the one who is disgraced and the great one.
    Give heed to my poverty and my wealth.
    Do not be arrogant to me when I am cast out upon the earth,
    and you will find me in those that are to come.
    And do not look upon me on the dung-heap
    nor go and leave me cast out,
    and you will find me in the kingdoms.
    And do not look upon me when I am cast out among those who
    are disgraced and in the least places,
    nor laugh at me.
    And do not cast me out among those who are slain in violence.

    But I, I am compassionate and I am cruel.
    Be on your guard!

    Do not hate my obedience
    and do not love my self-control.
    In my weakness, do not forsake me,
    and do not be afraid of my power.

    For why do you despise my fear
    and curse my pride?
    But I am she who exists in all fears
    and strength in trembling.
    I am she who is weak,
    and I am well in a pleasant place.
    I am senseless and I am wise.

    Why have you hated me in your counsels?
    For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
    and I shall appear and speak,

    Why then have you hated me, you Greeks?
    Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
    For I am the wisdom of the Greeks
    and the knowledge of the barbarians.
    I am the judgement of the Greeks and of the barbarians.
    I am the one whose image is great in Egypt
    and the one who has no image among the barbarians.
    I am the one who has been hated everywhere
    and who has been loved everywhere.
    I am the one whom they call Life,
    and you have called Death.
    I am the one whom they call Law,
    and you have called Lawlessness.
    I am the one whom you have pursued,
    and I am the one whom you have seized.
    I am the one whom you have scattered,
    and you have gathered me together.
    I am the one before whom you have been ashamed,
    and you have been shameless to me.
    I am she who does not keep festival,
    and I am she whose festivals are many.

    I, I am godless,
    and I am the one whose God is great.
    I am the one whom you have reflected upon,
    and you have scorned me.
    I am unlearned,
    and they learn from me.
    I am the one that you have despised,
    and you reflect upon me.
    I am the one whom you have hidden from,
    and you appear to me.
    But whenever you hide yourselves,
    I myself will appear.
    For whenever you appear,
    I myself will hide from you.

    Those who have [...] to it [...] senselessly [...].
    Take me [... understanding] from grief.
    and take me to yourselves from understanding and grief.
    And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin,
    and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.
    Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly;
    and out of shamelessness and shame,
    upbraid my members in yourselves.
    And come forward to me, you who know me
    and you who know my members,
    and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.
    Come forward to childhood,
    and do not despise it because it is small and it is little.
    And do not turn away greatnesses in some parts from the smallnesses,
    for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.

    Why do you curse me and honor me?
    You have wounded and you have had mercy.
    Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have known.
    And do not cast anyone out nor turn anyone away
    [...] turn you away and [... know] him not.
    What is mine [...].
    I know the first ones and those after them know me.
    But I am the mind of [...] and the rest of [...].
    I am the knowledge of my inquiry,
    and the finding of those who seek after me,
    and the command of those who ask of me,
    and the power of the powers in my knowledge
    of the angels, who have been sent at my word,
    and of gods in their seasons by my counsel,
    and of spirits of every man who exists with me,
    and of women who dwell within me.
    I am the one who is honored, and who is praised,
    and who is despised scornfully.
    I am peace,
    and war has come because of me.
    And I am an alien and a citizen.

    I am the substance and the one who has no substance.
    Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me,
    and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.
    Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me,
    and those who are far away from me are the ones who have known me.
    On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me,
    and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.

    [I am ...] within.
    [I am ...] of the natures.
    I am [...] of the creation of the spirits.
    [...] request of the souls.
    I am control and the uncontrollable.
    I am the union and the dissolution.
    I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.
    I am the one below,
    and they come up to me.
    I am the judgment and the acquittal.
    I, I am sinless,
    and the root of sin derives from me.
    I am lust in (outward) appearance,
    and interior self-control exists within me.
    I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone
    and the speech which cannot be grasped.
    I am a mute who does not speak,
    and great is my multitude of words.
    Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
    I am she who cries out,
    and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.
    I prepare the bread and my mind within.
    I am the knowledge of my name.
    I am the one who cries out,
    and I listen.
    I appear and [...] walk in [...] seal of my [...].
    I am [...] the defense [...].
    I am the one who is called Truth
    and iniquity [...].

    You honor me [...] and you whisper against me.
    You who are vanquished, judge them (who vanquish you)
    before they give judgment against you,
    because the judge and partiality exist in you.
    If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you?
    Or, if you are acquitted by him, who will be able to detain you?
    For what is inside of you is what is outside of you,
    and the one who fashions you on the outside
    is the one who shaped the inside of you.
    And what you see outside of you, you see inside of you;
    it is visible and it is your garment.
    Hear me, you hearers
    and learn of my words, you who know me.
    I am the hearing that is attainable to everything;
    I am the speech that cannot be grasped.
    I am the name of the sound
    and the sound of the name.
    I am the sign of the letter
    and the designation of the division.
    And I [...].
    (3 lines missing)
    [...] light [...].
    [...] hearers [...] to you
    [...] the great power.
    And [...] will not move the name.
    [...] to the one who created me.
    And I will speak his name.

    Look then at his words
    and all the writings which have been completed.
    Give heed then, you hearers
    and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
    and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
    For I am the one who alone exists,
    and I have no one who will judge me.
    For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
    and incontinencies,
    and disgraceful passions,
    and fleeting pleasures,
    which (men) embrace until they become sober
    and go up to their resting place.
    And they will find me there,
    and they will live,
    and they will not die again.

    Respectful greetings

    I give my respectful greetings to @nfprogress, @Alpinist, @BlueDevil, @calixto, @Bartimaeus, and a warm welcome to @Law, @aussiedave and @Hakkapeliitta; cześć to @MasterPablo and welcome back; "Siloam says hello" to @monke, @Xwin and @Hero One (where have you guys been?); thanks to Mark and Alexander for bringing NoFap into being and helping so many people.

    "A light has dawned upon me: I need companions -- living ones; not dead companions and corpses, which I carry with me wherever I go. But I need living companions, who will follow me because they want to follow themselves -- and to the place where I will." (Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra)
    Osman07, Napav, EdBoy WW and 14 others like this.
  2. Strivefwd

    Strivefwd Fapstronaut

    Thanks for your post man...I like your advice. I have to avoid triggers. when i watch tv I have to make sure there is no sexual content in the program. I cant even watch the national geographic channel because they emphasize so much on animal mating which triggers me....Im fasting from youtube and facebook. i only use the internet for helping me find a job and faith. i dont even have an addiction to porn. the last time i watched it was when i was in mexico because i accidentally switched to the channel in my hotel room, that was coming from a 6 year streak of not watching problem is fantasizing about real women that i know and that leads to MO. I cant stop MOing. I went 8 days without doing it but i fell a couple days ago. now Im on day2 MO free but i occasionally edge which i have to stop. I want to be free from indulging in fantasy world because Im a slave to this imaginary world that i spend so much time in. Im tired of it , it sucks out all my motivation to talk to real women and pursue after a relationship with them and to find a job. i gotta cut it out. i got to stop lusting and MOing. I went to an SA group a couple months ago, i think I will go back, maybe it will help me with my mo addiction. I hope to get where you are. to be free 60 days without Moing and to be doing things with your life that are productive and real. thats awesome man! I look up to you! Keep up the good work! God bless!!
    Napav, Bodyreality and L Coroneos like this.
  3. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

    Thanks! :D

    The Twelve-Step programs have REALLY helped me, and I'm still only on Step One -- the most important Step of all. "We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable."

    What did you think of the SA group? Could you identify with what they were saying? Sometimes they talk specifically about porn and MO, and some of those guys get long streaks up... it all depends on how well you admit that you are addicted and what you do to change your life that determines how well you recover and how long for.

    I recognise this 60 days as just a milestone; I'm extremely proud of it, but my initial goal for the past year or so has been 90 days, not 60, and it's been a hard struggle just to get this 60.

    I masturbated in my jail cell when my cell-mates were asleep or at work: that was where I hit rock bottom and just felt so ashamed of myself that I finally made that decision to stop with the help of a Higher Power. (In my case, the Virgin Mary, but you can choose any faith that works for you.) Read my journal "Will Stronger Than Death" if you want to see how I struggled in jail, the link to it is there in my signature.

    I haven't tried the NoFap academy but I read some good testimonials on there, and some of their "boot camp" videos are very informative. I used to be happy when I heard about others relapsing but now I genuinely feel compassionate for all you guys out there who are struggling. Hang in there folks, stick around and don't give up until the miracles start to happen. The best is yet to come.
  4. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

    Rapparee likes this.
  5. Rapparee

    Rapparee Guest

    Thank you for this, @L Coroneos, it's a really important thread you have posted here. Your points on how to stop are very helpful and I've taken them on board with myself. I am one of these people who is a habitual relapser and what you say about accepting that your an addict is true. I have just come to that realisation myself and have now decided to take this a lot more serious, that its not just a bad habit or a phase.

    Your point on avoiding triggers especially edging is exactly what I need to take into account, its counter-productive to think that just looking at arousing pictures is fine and now having read about the no arousal method I think I need to give that a try as well, until I stop looking at women in such a way that is going to trigger me off or in an objectifying way either.

    As you mentioned before to me on my journal when I was in a dark moment, dealing with emotions is important too. Since you mentioned that I have been doing a lot more to deal with them, to manage them, try to analyse why I feel that certain way, to get to the bottom of it but also rationalise it, rather than let take over me, as if I am helpless against it. In the end as you mention the best way is to find something to channel that emotion and writing is one of those, there are so many, expression in a creative form is one of the most important I feel.

    I think your accounts of your time inside are inspirational and I haven't read them all yet, but intend to more. Your insight is really important on here and even if you think 60 days is not enough to advise people, I think what you have gone through even before this puts you in the right place to be able to, despite what you say about it being a constant struggle.

    To finish it put a smile on my face to see a fellow NoFapper who is also inspired by Nietzsche, at least his Thus Spake Zarathustra, it is a powerful piece of literature and philosophy, actually funny enough, the first philosophy I ever read when I was 19, weirdly enough I understood it even back then. Need to get myself a copy again as a priority, I need his words back in my life again, he alongside many other inspirational writers awoke me to my boundless capabilities.

    I need to also consider SA group as well, but its hard for to talk to others about this, never mind possibly to a psychologist, this is the stigma of this addiction I feel and also the double standard it produces, on the one hand masses of people probably indulge in it around the world, but when it comes to acknowledging there is a real problem of addiction out there because of it, also seeing P as a problem as well, most don't want to know or will alienate you because of it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2016
  6. Alpinist

    Alpinist Guest

    Shine your light @L Coroneos ! We really need these forms of encouragement from someone who is walking their talk. Keep walking buddy, we're right behind you!
    WarriorScarr likes this.
  7. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

    Thanks @Alpinist, and thank you, my Irish friend. I shall reply in detail to what you said:

    First off, my extended family would ADORE you for learning Greek. I myself studied Biblical (Koine) Greek for two years. I only know a few phrases in Modern Greek (like kalimera, yia sou, xereis ellinika? ochi poli etc.) and am presently studying Polish. Foreign language study is a very healthy thing to do, and got me through some of those post-relapse lows like nothing else would.

    You sound intelligent and must have been clever to understand Nietzsche at age 19; I read Zarathustra at 16 I think and didn't understand a word of it. It is only now that I have drawn massive inspiration from his work and I encourage anyone who finds wisdom anywhere -- like @Alpinist with his Vivekananda and James Allen for example -- to hold it dear and put it into practice.

    I find Thunder, Perfect Mind to be somewhat easier and harder than Nietzsche at the same time... it is a "marvelous, strange poem." Another thing that inspires me is the Acts of the Apostles and St. Paul's story. He showed up on the scene precisely when all the Greeks were wondering just what this Jesus business was all about and gave us the low-down on Christianity. But like I said, religion is optional in NoFap.

    Finally, I encourage you to keep posting and working on yourself. It is in those precise moments when you don't feel like you are making any progress that you are making the most progress. Chastity should come naturally, but our modern culture is so depraved as to make it very difficult. I salute all the brethren who are still in the struggle and are not giving up despite all the inevitable disappointments and setbacks along the way.
    Alpinist likes this.
  8. Strivefwd

    Strivefwd Fapstronaut

    @L Coroneos Thanks for your advice. Also I like the SA group but since there weren't too many men going to the group , they cancelled it. not enough men were going consistently. So if I want to go to one, I have to either wake up at a ridiculously early time to go, or travel an hour to another location where they host a group....Also I read your journal and visited How did your journey lead you to subscribing to Gnosticism?
  9. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

    @Strivefwd Well, it's strange and a fairly long story. I never really pictured myself as having sufficient leadership skills to be able to carry the baton, so to speak, and all of a sudden I find you guys looking up to me and my 60-day schedule of pointers, and now you are doing me the courtesy of calling my Gnosticism into question. Where to begin?

    I discovered the writings of Samael Aun Weor in 2011. I'd been involved in the Australian Anglican church since 2009, before which I was nothing more than a common criminal, though I did well in school. After encountering the stubbornness and stupidity of the clergy of the mainstream church and observing the reaction of the parishioners to my doctrine and spiritual affairs like fasting, Yoga, and Biblical Greek (and Hebrew etc.) I decided that it was not the church that needed a new doctrine, it was the doctrine that needed a new church. If they would not be receptive to Samael Aun Weor, they would certainly not be receptive to me.

    So I've left things fairly open-ended. You guys are Gnostics if you say you are -- there's really nothing to subscribe to, except to avoid PMO, which we are all doing here, and to pursue the Arcanum, which is much easier said than done. Anyone who wants to know more may wish to read my website, the link's right there in my signature.

    Anyway I think the more I get involved with noFap, the more I will be in a position to clarify my own ideas and to help and advise others. My journal is embarrassingly haphazard, so if that helps anyone but myself I will be amazed. However I am glad at how this success story turned out. It's just what I wanted for myself and you guys.

    Hope all of that answers your question! :D

    P.S. You could always start your own S.A. group in your area. I am thinking of starting an S.L.A.A. group up here in Albany WA, but until I get those crucial six months or so under my belt it will all just be a projection for the future. I encourage you to read their free literature online and see if you can relate to it. There's some good stuff out there.
    football81 likes this.
  10. For_The_Crown_^=^=^

    For_The_Crown_^=^=^ Fapstronaut

    Hi Coroneos,

    I'm in SA and I think it's helpful. I can't necessarily say it's the end all be all for me. Before SA the longest I could go without porn was only 4 days. Once I joined SA I got to 22 days, and that was with something catastrophic happening before each time one of my better steaks ended. I'm really glad I found NoFap though. I think a combo of NoFap and a 12 step program is killer for me. I only found NoFap 6 days ago, but I easily stayed sober since (not a very long time mind you). In some ways I feel more connected on NoFap since my problem is on the computer. I just read a success story like yours instead of watch porn. However, it doesn't seem like NoFap has a lot to offer beyond rebooting, whereas the 12 steps offer a lot of recovery. SA just hasn't been all that great for getting me past the first 30 days for whatever reason. Obviously that is probably mostly my fault in a lot of ways, but NoFap keeps me more motivated daily somehow. Meets me where I'm at a little better in some ways. Still, doing step work is pretty helpful. I got over a whole lot of shame problems through SA.
  11. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut

    Hey, thanks for posting, and good to hear that SA is helpful. I go to A.A. and N.A. meetings and I've been trying to integrate the Twelve-Step approach into my recovery from porn addiction. I've written a draft of my 90-day Success Story which I will post in two days' time, in which I will address issues like willpower, goal-setting and accountability. I think a combined approach is most beneficial.

    Will post a link to the Success Story from this thread when I upload it, and it will have some more pointers for newcomers and you guys who feel like it's hard to stop relapsing. All the best!
  12. L Coroneos

    L Coroneos Fapstronaut