To be free from porn you need to watch porn (in a different way)

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by ultrafabber, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    Thanks mate. What worries me are the inexperienced members that might stray into this thread and assume that he is right! This will simply exacerbate their addiction. After all, you do not get an alcoholic or a heroin addict to continue with their substance abuse, but put them in front of a beautiful landscape and say concentrate on that and the process of addiction will lose it's strength. This is a dangerous thing he is suggesting and I want to ensure there are as many posts debunking it for the sake of others. Especially when he claims to be a clinical psychologist, as if to justify his theories. :eek:
     
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  2. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    It actually doesn't work. The relapse rates are huge and there are many people trying for years.

    "and your brain isn't really capable of differentiating sex from porn" ... that's the point and that's the problem. The association for the vast majority of pmo addicts is that porn/masturbation = sex. Pmo is obviously not sex. That's why the association needs to be actively removed.

    Yes, sex is extremely pleasurable and powerful. That's why it's critical that the associations to it are correct.

    Pedophiles have a sexual response to children. For them the cue for sexual arousal is children. You can test this response with a penile plethysmograph. A necrophile has a sexual response to a corpse, a zoophile to an animal. When you see a child, a corpse or an animal you don't get a sexual response. The sexual response for a human can completely miss the mark.

    Just exposing yourself to the stimuli won't work, it will make it stronger. That's why i extensively explained that you need to initially pair it with doing something else and focus on NOT getting a response. That's why i explained how repeatedly closing a porn tab 100 times will train the brain to be able to STOP. In pmo addiction or any addiction for that matter, the problem, besides the association, is the inability to stop the behavior/thought.

    That's technically how most treatments work. It's substituted with opiate synthetics and dosage is lowered over time. It's usually methadone, rarely suboxone (which is a combination of an opiate agonist with an opiate antagonist). The latter is allegedly better but more expensive. Abrupt discontinuation actually leads to relapse most of the time. I worked in a clinic with drug addicts, by the way. I have both practical and theoretical knowledge of addictions.

    You're welcome to disagree of course, but so far it has been a relentless diatribe on how this doesn't work with no actual arguments against it.

    I can watch porn and not care about it, get bored and close it. It means nothing to me. If you think that means i'm addicted to porn, i guess there's nothing more I can say.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  3. It’s certainly a bold theory that you are advancing.

    I like the fresh look at reframing it’s a nlp technique that is often effective within other paradigm shifts.

    The only issue I have with your emphasis is that you are both your own patient and doctor. The fact you are doing this to yourself makes me very concerned for your state of mind ...?

    Do you feel there is any conflict of interest in conducting your own clinical trial?

    How do you do a control— when you are both scientist and the experimented?

    Have you published this is any medical/psychological journals?

    I’m related to many psychologists including being married to one so I mean no disrespect....

    Is PMO your only diagnosed problem?
     
  4. Right, that's completely understandable. But, he has just as much right to his opinion as we do to ours as long as he expresses it respectfully. Is it a logical opinion, maybe not. I can see how it could lead less experienced members astray, so now they will be able to see both sides to it and hopefully they will make the right decision, but ultimately that will be up to them.

    I do think that he shouldn't have brought up the fact that he's a clinical psychologist, which may or may not even be true. It doesn't really make a difference other than to justify continuing to watch porn, and just because someone is a professional in a field doesn't mean that they're necessarily right. Even experts don't get everything right all the time. ;)
     
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  5. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    Yes I agree with the point you have made very well here. After all, how many times have we read of anecdotes on these forums of people talking to doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists and sex counsellors that do not accept PIED (porn induced erectile dysfunction). The medical profession tends to only accept a change of view collectively when it is written up in the ICD or DSM. So, just to say one is a clinician has no merit in itself when it comes to their personal opinion on a matter. o_O
     
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  6. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    No offense but i don't take nlp as a good approach, if anything this is more of a crossover between behaviorism and cbt (even though nlp has elements of both).

    I don't really understand how this makes you concerned for my state of mind? I'm using my knowledge and life experience to work something out, that's what many psychologists used to do and still do.

    I am not conducting a clinical trial although i would like to do so in the future. So far i just posted this in a colloquial manner to help some people and see what people think about it. I haven't published anything yet.

    PMO is not a diagnosable problem as of yet. I didn't have any other problems.
     
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  7. That's just it. The medical community doesn't think on an individual basis, they do so as a group because if the entire community accepts something as fact, then it reduces the potential for bias and...well, being wrong. This is why it takes so long for medical practitioners of all types to accept something as fact, for instance PIED. Or porn addiction in general, for that matter. As of right now, the DSM has yet to accept porn addiction as a diagnoseable condition, and until that happens practitioners will continue to deny it. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. That's why we have to take the lead, and fix it for ourselves without their help for now.

    And as far as I'm concerned, we're doing a pretty damn good job of it. :D
     
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  8. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think this is viable without strict supervision.
     
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  9. This is true, PMO isn't a diagnosable disorder yet. As a practitioner, you should understand that it's difficult to just accept the opinion of one person as fact without really anything other than personal experience to back it up. o_O Let's say we told you that the correct way to get rid of an addiction to PMO really is to abstain from it completely, what makes our theory any less valid than yours?

    Until a legitimate peer-reviewed clinical study has been conducted, and it's found that this approach actually has some benefit to it, there's no reason for anyone to believe that this approach actually works.
     
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  10. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    This thread is not posted in words that suggest it is simply an idea and an attempt to see what people think about it. See...

    TITLE: To be free from porn you need to watch porn (in a different way)

    Notice the message: "You NEED to..." o_O Notice, too, his closing words in the opening post...
    He says: "This WILL take..."; "You WILL be free from PMO addiction FOREVER".

    He hasn't even had one successful attempt for three months on himself yet. :eek: How can he posit a theory that will guarantee freedom from PMO addiction "forever"? That is why I called him out on post #2 for writing as a suggestion or recommendation something that was only "a deeply flawed personal opinion". Please pay heed to this warning my friends.
     
  11. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I'm not expecting anyone to accept this or to believe me. I just explained this in a way that i considered is easy to read and understand. Of course anyone is welcomed to disagree, argue against it or completely dismiss it. It won't affect me either way.

    I published this after testing it and i tested it after it made sense from a psychological point.

    What i know so far both from observing myself and probably thousands of entries in nofap is that the relapse rate is extremely high, therefore abstinence only is likely not the best approach, to say the least. And the relapses are usually in the form of binging behavior, which is indicative of a more serious addiction.

    This is just a theory, people can do whatever they want with it.
     
  12. Yes, for those of you reading this, please take this man's opinion with a grain of salt. Realistically there's no way to know for sure what works and what doesn't. Tread carefully. Just use NoFap as it is intended to be used, please! :eek:

    Nobody can claim that their ideas are any more right than someone else's without any legitimate evidence to back up their claim. It's just the way it is, you are free to express your opinion but that doesn't mean others have to agree with it.

    It would have been different if this thread was written a different way, in a way that wasn't judgmental to the opinions of others, and that was presented as an idea rather than a fact. o_O
     
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  13. I think it was more the way it was written that was the issue. It made it sound like you were expressing this theory as a fact rather than an idea. And you have to keep in mind that people on NoFap can be very susceptible to things like that because they're addicted, and sometimes they look for a justification to continue that behavior, and posts like this are handing that to them.

    I'm sure that you have good intentions, and it's great that you're a practitioner looking into this subject, that's what we need so we can finally get the medical community to accept porn addiction as a legitimate issue. But please do be careful what you say, and how you say it because sometimes it can do more harm than good.
     
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  14. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    This is the first line of the OP

    I understand that people are susceptible, that's why i added that in the opening phrase. I'll add the same disclaimer at the end, for good measure, but i generally don't like to treat people like children that need extra care. I find this takes away from their power and their ability to assume responsibility for their actions.

    As for expressing facts, this is usually how writing a theory/opinion works. It defeats the purpose and it's infantile to mention "in my opinion", "i think that" etc. As long as this hasn't been explicitly mentioned as fact, it should not be read as fact. Nowhere did i even imply this is a fact. Everything is explained in the confines of the theory. Since it appears at least one person has already assumed this as "fact", i guess i'll add this is a theory in OP as well even though it's superfluous in my opinion.
     
  15. I understand you better thank you.

    Btw I wasn’t advocating nlp I was simply acknowledging the similarities.

    I meant your mindset is was worrisome because you are a health professional engaging in harmful activity for the purpose of an experimental treatment that you are hoping to share with others....

    Are you or are you not a porn addict ?

    If so, were you this before or after you were a health professional ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  16. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    No! The first line of your OP is the outrageous claim...
    NB I added the bold word for emphasis of what your claim was.

    You cannot even be honest about your own post! :eek: I think you are aware of how susceptible people in this community are and you endeavour to mislead them and collect followers of your theories. You are a clear and present danger here! :mad:
     
  17. Kiz Whalifa

    Kiz Whalifa Fapstronaut

    Tried something similar(since wife is still watching porn every now and then) and it worked pretty well. I would never recommend it, because even with a similar technique with moderate success, it's pretty damn far-fetched. Different strokes, different folks, but I would neverrrrr recommend that method to anyone. Besides, it's quite destructive, and counterproductive to even try this method.
     
  18. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    I agree Kiz. :) The proposal in this thread is destructive, counterproductive and never to be recommended to anyone. o_O
     
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  19. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I started pmo at 12 yo. By age 15 I was an addict by all standards. I did this for myself first and foremost.

    You'd think that. That's what i used to think as well. But i've come to find out that there are many (straight) men, even pmo addicts that never watch boy-girl scenes because the existence of the man and his erect penis disturbs them.

    Which makes perfect sense because not only should another erect male turn you off but actually seeing the woman you like get fcked by someone else should be a turn-off, NOT a turn on. It stopped being a turn-off for most pmo addicts because they grew up with porn and they didn't know better.

    I actually wrote a topic the other day on how watching boy-girl scenes and masturbating is likely to lead to same sex attraction and sexual identity issues (transgenderism), as it combines sexual pleasure and orgasm with seeing another male body and penis.

    Contrary to now-popular beliefs, masturbating to boy-girl porn is a deeply disturbing and confusing act.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  20. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
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    That does seem to be true for some. As far as I can work out, they watch same sex porn instead (lesbian).
     
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