To Forgive or not to Forgive

KevinesKay

KevinesKay

Fapstronaut
To the partners...

I'm wondering if any of you have worked on forgiving your PA or SA? If so, how has that been coming along?
 
I struggled with this a lot, I just could not forgive. Part of me wanted to forgive. As a christian I believe I should forgive and I also know I would benefit from it and feel better afterwards. But some other part of me doesn't want to forgive. What he did to me is too much. I don't even believe we are truly married. He lied to me to get maried that he doesn't watch porn. He was addicted while marrying me. He lied to me for years. I don't want to forget and let him lie to me again.
Fortunately, right now we are in very good times of our "marriage". He is the best husband I could wish for. He is really trying to undo the pain he caused me. And I don't feel anger towards him anymore. I feel love. That is something I didn't feel the last months before the Dday. But, there is still the shadow of the past somewhere. I try to supress all the feelings and memories and not think about it at all. At least on the emotional level. But at the same time I keep telling myself, that this could end any second. He can relapse anytime. I wanna be prepared.
 
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Thanks for the responses. My main desire for every partner is healing. And I have some thoughts.
I've been at this a long time, and I've witnessed probably over a thousand stories from betrayed partners. A few of them came out okay. More than a few did not.
My observation is that healing was only possible when the partner includes forgiveness as an integral part of his/her journey.
For those that did not forgive, I've watched them slowly become more angry, resentful, bitter. It's a path that leads to misery. I call this the dark path.
I could come up with all sorts of arguments on why to forgive, but I reckon that partners know all of these. And I wouldn't think it's helpful. And while forgiveness comes easier for me, it doesn't take away from the fact that forgiveness is really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hard for others.
I'm sure that if forgiveness came easier, more partners would do it. Meanwhile, many continue to act against their own moral beliefs because they are unable to do otherwise.
I have more thoughts to share about this, but I first wanted to hear what others think about what I shared here.
 
Nope, and my therapist supports me in this decision. I'm allowed to be angry with him for the rest of my life. He stole some inexcusable things from me. My first marriage, years of my life, my virginity, probably my chance at having children.

People talk about forgiveness as if it's the holy Grail that will make everything better. There are some definite mental benefits to working toward forgiveness. But forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. Forgiveness does not mean trusting them again. Forgiveness literally only means letting go of the anger and resentment. Which you can do, if you want to, from very very emotionally far away while never speaking to them again. Or by holding a boundary that they should only text you when necessary to discuss custody issues. Or by permanently moving into separate bedrooms while the kids grow up or someone saves to move out.



I personally choose to not forgive, because I'm in a situation where I am capable of never seeing him again ever. I will move on and this will eventually be a distant memory. But when I do remember it, I'm absolutely fine with that anger still being there. There are simply some unforgivable things. And instead of dressing it up as noble and simply hard to do, we need to more often acknowledge that actually, it's okay to just not forgive them and block them from your life in every manner possible.
 
KevinesKay said:
I'm sure that if forgiveness came easier, more partners would do it.
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No, you just have the bias that you've done something deeply horrible that needs this specific kind of forgiveness, so you think that this kind of forgiveness is good and worthwhile and a goal others should try to accomplish. Forgiveness in this case is often more complicated, because this addiction is lifelong and statistically the addict will just keep betraying.
 
CrushedandLeaving said:
Forgiveness in this case is often more complicated, because this addiction is lifelong and statistically the addict will just keep betraying.
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Exactly.
The betrayal is too deep to forgive easily. It takes a lot of time. It is not easy to forgive someone, who hurts you repeatedly, if you know the person will hurt you again and again. According to what is to be seen in this forums, the SOs of addicts seldom get enough time to process things, and to heal, without the interruption of this process with new and new betrayals. Not many people are strong enough to forgive something done to them right now.
Unless the addict is in recovery for a fair amount of time, it is very hard to forgive. And I don't mean days, or weeks, I mean months to years. And there is still the very probable possibility he will relapse later, even if he seems ok now.
 
I see most often women staying because they don't want their kids to have to live with just the addict responsible for their well-being half the time. This is something that honestly needs to be prosecuted. In the family courts, as rape by omission (especially in physical infidelity cases), etc. Women are already trafficked and drugged and coerces to make the content. They shouldn't also lose their ability to have normal happy lives on the other side of it too.
 
Psalm27:1my light said:
Wait. Which time are you talking about? The first? The one thousandth’s? Or just the last one? I’ve lost count
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What do you think psalm? Of the two pieces of this, 1. the amount of times it happened (or duration), or 2. The fact that it even happened (and then struggling with never feeling like their first choice)? Which one is harder? do you even feel they are different? Try to choose one if possible. Interested in your thoughts in particular on this.
 
I think forgiveness is always good; however, reconciliation involves reparation, which isn’t always possible when trust has been violated, so while there can be forgiveness, some relationships still cannot continue.

Trust is a foundation of every healthy relationship. If it’s damaged or removed, the relationship is dying or dead.
 
It took me several years to forgive a friend who betrayed me. I never got an apology. For a long time after I was stuck in that envious resentment. I didn't realize how much it held me back in other aspects of my life until I felt I had let a lot of that go. It's much harder to forgive when there's no apology or remorse, it's also much harder to forgive a primary attachment person than a friend.

In either case though, it holds back the person that is holding the resentment from healing. I didn't realize that me forgiving had more to do with me than it did the other person. It's a part of moving on. But that doesn't mean forgiving means forgetting.
 
Warfman said:
What do you think psalm? Of the two pieces of this, 1. the amount of times it happened (or duration), or 2. The fact that it even happened (and then struggling with never feeling like their first choice)? Which one is harder? do you even feel they are different? Try to choose one if possible. Interested in your thoughts in particular on this.
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The thousandth and the last time are hardest. I forgave pretty easily after first dday. It took a while to trust but with 3 years of weekly couples counseling and the fact he was sober during that time, I 100% forgave and trusted again. Then 2 years later(dday#2 while I was pregnant) found out he started up again right after birth of our son. Maybe even during my pregnancy but it’s hard to pin down exact time. They are far far different. The first time I had so much hope and belief in him. The second time was much harder. Much harder and took me years. I also knew he wasn’t going to change, so I had to. I don’t think duration had as big an impact as you might think. Because I detached, I had zero expectations from him. I was actually really happy with most of my life. Then, once I learned it was an addiction, my thoughts really did change. However, once he knew it was an addiction, his responsibility to protect himself, me, our children, our marriage should have been life or death ( in my opinion) So, this last time? Even harder. Because I had absolute proof that he just didn’t care about the damage he did to anyone. He has been in counseling, going to group, had emdr, neurofeedback, had accountability partners, he blocked his phone, cut off access to internet but still chooses to relapse with fantasy or psubs. At some point you have to look at your choices and say “ I love this more than anything and I’ve proven it by refusing to sit in the pain of the moment and take measures to protect myself and others from this.” I knew and expected relapses and I realized there was no way he could have changed his behavior in the past because he had no idea he was an addict or how to change. Once you know though… that’s different. Every relapse is you not putting safeguards in place because you subconsciously ( or consciously) still want the option. So for me, the last relapse was/is the hardest, and I realized that once again I cannot be vulnerable or attach to him because of the damage it does to me.
 
Psalm27:1my light said:
Once you know though… that’s different. Every relapse is you not putting safeguards in place because you subconsciously ( or consciously) still want the option.
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That's something I've struggled with. I've wanted more safeguards in my way. I've brought them up to my wife. Her stance (maybe Ill informed) is that if I can't abstain without help then it shows my true self. My thought is more like you are saying and what the Bible says about "if your arm causes you to sin, cut it off".

Maybe I've looked at that the wrong way. Because I haven't used a paid blocker or something like convenant eyes even though I've wanted to. Because I haven't wanted that conversation I know would come when she sees I've "needed" to spend money to stop. I haven't meant to make the blocker about her, but maybe I have, it's maybe been in my mind more about her than for me. I can do a blocker for me, and make it about that decision you are talking about, rather than for anyone else.
 
Warfman said:
That's something I've struggled with. I've wanted more safeguards in my way. I've brought them up to my wife. Her stance (maybe Ill informed) is that if I can't abstain without help then it shows my true self. My thought is more like you are saying and what the Bible says about "if your arm causes you to sin, cut it off".

Maybe I've looked at that the wrong way. Because I haven't used a paid blocker or something like convenant eyes even though I've wanted to. Because I haven't wanted that conversation I know would come when she sees I've "needed" to spend money to stop. I haven't meant to make the blocker about her, but maybe I have, it's maybe been in my mind more about her than for me. I can do a blocker for me, and make it about that decision you are talking about, rather than for anyone else.
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I would spend my last dime if it meant my husband was in recovery and never relapsed again. Because it isnt just about me. It’s about our children, about every relationship he has. I truly don’t understand the partners who resent the time and money an addict needs to spend to be in recovery. I know they are out there but I can’t fathom that way of thinking. I’ve told my husband “ if I knew it was destroying all my relationships, I would do whatever it took to stop”. Period.
 
Psalm27:1my light said:
I would spend my last dime if it meant my husband was in recovery and never relapsed again. Because it isnt just about me. It’s about our children, about every relationship he has. I truly don’t understand the partners who resent the time and money an addict needs to spend to be in recovery. I know they are out there but I can’t fathom that way of thinking. I’ve told my husband “ if I knew it was destroying all my relationships, I would do whatever it took to stop”. Period.
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Thats how I feel about it too. I include my wife in most decisions like that. Maybe that's just something I should do for myself. Therapy was a similar " choice" I decided to make on my own.
 
Warfman said:
Thats how I feel about it too. I include my wife in most decisions like that. Maybe that's just something I should do for myself. Therapy was a similar " choice" I decided to make on my own.
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I may not understand addiction the way another addict would, but I do know it’s not something one can just quit. I’ve done enough research on my own to understand an addicts brain has been changed and they must have help to relearn how to not use their doc. It’s why I believed relapses were going to happen. You have to learn and the way we learn most, is from our mistakes. But, they should not be the same issue over and over ie social media slips, and they should be getting less and less frequent. Just my opinion
 
I haven’t. I feel like it will take a really long time, probably not until we are very old. I was very traumatized and am a shell of who I once was. I was unstoppable before and now I’m so burned out. I watch him be fully functional while I feel like I have a permanent brain injury. Even things like remembering the past or looking at photos - his memories are still happy and intact. Mine now are tainted and replaced by knowing what was going on. I’m afraid now that we’ll go somewhere and see someone that will be the beginning of our end. So I know I am not far enough in my healing to think about forgiveness. He hid this problem from me for more than a decade. Damage that long takes a long time to forgive. I still love him. We are still together. Just had another baby. But my hurt is still a daily battle in my mind. If and when I do forgive him, I want it to be authentic. Not something I say and then take back with more anger and resentment. So he keeps trying to get further in recovery and I try harder to heal.
 
KevinesKay said:
To the partners...

I'm wondering if any of you have worked on forgiving your PA or SA? If so, how has that been coming along?
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I want to consider your question, but I'm not sure what you mean by forgiveness. It's a word that is thrown around a lot, but its meaning seems to be very individual and contextual. Given that you have thoughts and observations about it, how do you define it? What do you think it would "look like" if a partner forgave?
 
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