Told Gf about porn addiction, did not go well

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by PatientOx, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Can you please put some TL;DR on this fine bullshit of yours as presented above? Just in case I start caring enough to respond to this huge outburst of I-know-best-and-you're-idiots wisdom?
     
  2. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    If it's "...TL;DR...", then how the hell do you know it's bullshit? If you want to interpret this as you're an idiot, well OK then. If the shoe fits...

    My response wasn't for your benefit. It's not about you. It's about @PatientOx.

    But whatever. Have a nice day.
     
  3. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Glanced though it and saw some symptomatic fragments.
     
  4. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    In other words, you didn't read it.
     
  5. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, you got me. I also stopped reading Hitler's Mein Kampf somewhere around page 13. Whoops, I guess I broke Godwin's law again, damn it.
     
  6. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    You got farther than me. I wouldn't have picked up the book and read it at all. In fact, I didn't. Wasn't much interested in anything Hitler had to say. "...Godwin's Law...", hmmm! What is this preoccupation with Hitler and Nazis? I mean, you're the only person who's brought it to bear. Why? What relevance does it have on the subject at hand?
     
  7. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Ok man, you're right, let's not ruthlessly hijack this thread with our bollocks so much. It's gone completely astray now anyway and should indeed be just bulldozed by the SS Moderatorenkommando.
     
  8. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    I'm sure it will. Many thanks to you and others who contributed to it. As for me, I simply tried to respond to the OP when you felt the need to jump in my shit. Seems to be the protocol du jour around here lately.
     
  9. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

    (In response to, @PatientOx "I need to get this off my chest")
    I agree, but I also see the PA's perspective here. The rest of his quote says he needs help, and he does. It's not his SO's job to help. He dug himself into his mess, it's his responsibility to dig himself out. And yet, it's a hard situation and I can't blame a guy for looking for help, especially from his partner. He doesn't have a right to expect help from her, but he does have a right to ask and it is disappointing when he doesn't get it.

    (In response to @PatientOx "How do I make this up to her?")
    I think we all know the situation is beyond kitschy gifts, but can we at least acknowledge that he recognizes his mistake and wants to fix it?

    (In response to @PatientOx "She feels like I cheated on her")
    This is not intuitive to PA's, the vast majority of men, and even some women. P is not natural, but greater culture, at least in the US, says using it is. I've not seen it condemned anywhere but in a limited few venues, mostly including here and YBOP, religious contexts (which itself is rejected by mainstream US culture so if they are anti-P, it must be a good thing), and a few branches of feminism but it's embraced by other branches so that's a wash. You can't just whack someone over the head with a rhetorical hammer and say "P is cheating, dipshit!" because that runs counter to everything we currently know and we don't follow the logic.

    (In response to @Ekhangel 's suggestion of reframing the confession)
    I agree that the way the confession was proposed to be reframed is faulty. P isn't about aesthetics or admiring the act. That's a paper thin argument and easy to see through, but reframing the confession is a good idea. I'm certain there are some good threads about how to confess to an SO, why don't we dig those up?

    This is a refreshing attitude of support for the PA. Honest but genuine, and true. It's regrettable that it's buried under a mountain of criticism and sarcastic shaming. I'm a lifelong PA who sucks at quitting and self control and sucks at relationships, but I do have my areas of expertise and one is writing. My dude, if you want people to read your wall o' text, it doesn't matter how true or how carefully constructed it is. You have to let the reader know you are on their side. The post should have been led with this, not shuttled down here.

    You have a lot more good, solid gold content following that in the bullet points, and then we get here...
    Just to clarify, is that lack of honesty and transparency?

    A little pushback here, people make decisions with the propensity to influence, impact, and affect me all the time and I am not consulted. That's like, under the TOS of Life Itself; you are going to be influenced by all kinds of garbage without consent, consultation, or notification. I don't have time, much less the emotional reserves, to include everybody in every decision I make that is going to impact them. Maturity is, among a lot of other things, learning to prioritize how we consult.

    Take peanuts as an example. Most people don't worry about peanuts, but a select few worry about them a lot because a gram of peanut, to them, is more deadly than a gram of cyanide. My decision to pack a PB cracker in my kid's lunchbox has the propensity to affect another human being, but I wasn't aware of it. I didn't know it would be a problem. Most men don't know their P use is a problem, and they definitely don't understand why their P use is such a big problem to their SO. To quote a certain Canadian, "It isn't obvious." At least not to them.

    More good stuff, then this, which bears repeating
    What other people wear, in this context I think, falls under the "other person does something to impact you" but seriously. Blaming women for wearing clothes that trigger you is giving your power up to something completely out of your control. Don't do that. Don't worry about what other people are doing, that's your addicted self making excuses. "It's not my fault, we live in a highly sexualized society, it's not that I'm supporting the exploitation and trafficking of women and girls by consuming the end product that damages them, it's that they're a bunch of skanky hoes!" Please. Stop lying to yourself, and grow a fucking pair.

    Huzzah.

    You talk about Dr. Brene Brown a lot. Are you this person's disciple? Are... are you Dr. Brown?
    and then
    Maybe this is just me being triggered, but this is contradictory advice. I have tried to prove to my wife over and over and over and over that she is enough, that my addiction has nothing to do with her insufficiency and everything to do with my outrageous greed, and it's not there so I don't know what to do about that. But you're not talking to me, you're talking to Mr. Ox.

    Dammit, this is why I tend to ignore everything. I've spent a lot of time now and I'm just spinning my wheels, and I don't even know that I'm adding to the conversation or obfuscating it.

    Love you guys, don't do porn, be kind to your SOs and eat your vegetables
     
    PatientOx likes this.
  10. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I can help with this one.
    Choose her over porn. Not sometimes, not occasionally, every single time.
    Whenever an urge strikes, go to her. I dont mean sexually. This is your opportunity to step away from the selfish aspect and learn selflessness. What does she need help with? What does she need you to do? Does she want to talk? What can you do for her in those moments those urges are there? Find out and do it.
    Everytime you choose to watch porn, it only solidifies the notion that she isn't good enough for you, regardless of what you say to her. Actions are what matter the most. Choose her everytime and you'll eventually see that this method is two-fold: on one hand, it helps your relationship. On the other, it helps redirect your reward system towards reality rather than towards fantasy.

    Second: be honest with her always. Everytime you lie, it again solidifies that she isn't good enough. If she is supposed to be the one person you want to spend your life with, she has to know that she is worth the whole truth every time. When you lie, it sends the message that you can't be trusted, and also that you don't trust her with your struggles, your vulnerability, and what is going on in your life. It feels as though my husband excludes me from his life whenever he lies to me.

    Third: align your words with action every time. Dont tell her you love her only to sneak away with your phone a few moments later. I think you get the idea from here.
     
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  11. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for that well thought out response @Meshuga
    Well, that's why I just came right out and said it. "It is cheating".
    Sadly, you're correct about this. Just to be clear, I don't object to pornography on moral grounds (even though I am morally against it...at least now). I object to pornography on mental health and abuse grounds if that makes sense. It's is a mental health crisis like none other we have ever seen. It is abuse of our relationship on so many levels.
    Well, I just did. I whack addicts over the head with the reality of it all the time. But I'm also there for them to walk them through it the entire time. Yes, it makes an addict angry. So what. They need to get angry. I want them to get so pissed off that they want nothing more to do with it anymore. Beating around the bush doesn't work. Having to read shit between the lines doesn't work. Subtle hints don't work. You know what does work? Direct and to the point. That's what I use.
    First of all, that wasn't in any way "...(re)framing the confession..." That was a blatant sidestepping if our responsibility, a complete failure to hold ourselves accountable, and a refusal to own it. Disclosure is a very necessary component. However, there is a proper time and place to do it. It's going to take a whole lotta convincing for me to come back and reintroduce it. I'm sure as hell not going to do so in the current state of the union here.
    OK, perhaps I could have said this sooner, but I followed his post as if it was enumerated line items to address. But I hear you. i also want to make something abundantly clear. My criticism of him? That's constructive criticism. I don't really care how anyone else perceives it. I only care how he perceives it. If he has a problem with it, I'll address it with him. As for shaming, I'm not shaming anyone. To understand shame is to understand that it comes from within. No one can make you feel ashamed or inferior unless you let them.
    And you do a marvelous job at it. No kidding. That wasn't a rhetorical statement either. I really do think you're good at it.
    I'll take it under advisement. However, you should know, I am abundantly aware of my so called "wall o'text". Where i come from, we call it "wall of words". I do have a dear friend, colleague, and CSAT that helps keep me grounded on it. And yes, I try, but sometimes I just get carried away with it. If you're the writer you say you are, I'm quite certain you have resources to help in that arena? I'm OPEN to that idea if you have any.

    BTW, I'm always on their side.
    That would be correct.
    Push back all you want. How's that working out for ya? I mean, why do you think it's OK for people to make decisions that affect you without consulting you on them? I'm sorry, I just don't agree. If you don't have the time, if you don't have the emotional wherewithal, perhaps you shouldn't be making decisions for and on their behalf. I find this idea troubling.
    I think we're comparing apples to oranges here (or peanuts as it were). Look, if we're doing something that endangers the life of another, I think it's common courtesy to take necessary precautions so as not to put them in harms way. So when and how does it become obvious? When would be a good time? When someone dies from anaphylactic shock? If most men don't know, which is correct btw, that P use is a problem, this is an opportunity for them to become educated. They're not a five year old. They're adults for crying out loud. Do we really need to sugar coat this for them? They want to be treated like an adult, yet they act like a petulant child. I should know. I was once in that same category.
    How does what somebody else is wearing become their problem? Because it's a problem for you? It only impacts you because you allow it to; not because they made a decision to impact you. It's your perception versus their reality, and reality always wins.
    Well that was blunt. And true!
    OK, you made me go look it up! LOL!
    Oh, how I wish I was. There is so much wisdom that comes out of her mouth, you just gotta go listen to her speak. She is phenomenal.
    Contradictory to what? I'm a little confused by this statement.
    Well, first of all, I would have to take exception to and maybe I'm misunderstanding, "...her insufficiency..." What insufficiency is that? It makes no difference how much you've tried to prove it to your wife. It makes a difference whether she believes it. That is her reality. If this is your current situation, she is not much interested in your word(
    I'm, very much in touch with this emotion. Between the trolls, troglodytes, and the moderation team, I end up spinning my wheels in here a lot. So I get it. I hope and pray that my message gets through and to the individual who wants and needs it. As for the rest? If they don't get it, they don't want to get it. So then you have to ask yourself this question. Is it worth it to me?
     
  12. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    I was just speaking from own experience. Whenever I watch porn I equally admire the guy’s and the girl’s assets and it’s the act as such that would excite me, not particular “standalone” actors. Also, lesbian porn was never a turn on for me for instance. But perhaps I’m an isolated incident.

    By the way, you do know there are couples out there who watch porn together? I’m not judging whether it’s right or wrong (I mean: of course I wouldn’t do it personally), just saying.
     
  13. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    @Lilla_My - just fished this out of a recent thread here by accident. Regarding that mass media thing.
     
  14. Meshuga

    Meshuga Fapstronaut

    Oh is that all I needed to do, this whole time? Now why didn't I think of that before?

    In all seriousness, I have ADHD. That's too much adrenaline and not enough dopamine. I am nothing but urges, sexual and otherwise, it's my constant state of existence. We tried that constant checking in thing, and it proved to be counterproductive.

    It's where their anger is directed that concerns me. You want them angry at P, not angry at you.
    Google impacts people without consulting them all the time. I choose what my family will eat without consulting them, at least not for every meal. It's just how invasive the impact is, and I agree, couples should be in tight communication.
    I think most men regard their use of P as a little decision that has little to no impact on their SO. They are told P is normal and everyone does it, and sure their SO doesn't like it but you know what? He doesn't like that she watches "The Bachelor" but he doesn't make a fuss. He might even watch it with her because he loves her and she's into it and it's a way to spend time with her and make her happy. It's not obvious to most men, especially PAs who "need" their coping mechanism, why P is inherently destructive on a level far outpacing trashy TV.
    Agree, and in this instance I simply didn't know there was someone tangentially in my community with a peanut allergy, so I assumed it was okay to pack a PB sandwich in my own kid's lunch. I knew peanuts could be a problem for some people, I did not know one of those people was in my proximity and I didn't consult everyone about it because I was busy.

    We should take this opportunity to educate them, so let's do that. You say it's cheating, the SO says it's cheating, but how? It's not actually sleeping with anyone, there's no relationship, the male libido tends to be higher anyway. It's not like every time I take a dump I ask my wife to wipe my ass, I just take care of it myself so how is this any different? Men need to know. PA's, experts at rationalizing their behavior, need to have it broken down so clearly a Telletubby could understand. It gets repetitious and most SOs are outraged they even have to explain it, but that's just how it is.

    On one hand you say a PA doesn't "make her understand," on the other you say we have to prove it to her. I'm just not clear on where a PA's responsibilities begin or end. In my own case, my SO perceives she is insufficient and that's why I abuse P. That is not why I abuse P. That couldn't possibly be why I abuse P since I did before we had a relationship. I abuse P because I have too much adrenaline and consequently not enough dopamine, and P is a cheap and easy way to get that dopamine. I could schedule with her, sort out which kids want to come with me, get them shod and packed away in the van, drive to the trail and unpack everyone, load the smallest ones into the stroller, run 2 miles, load everyone back into the van, come home and shower... or I could run a quick search and spend five minutes looking at images. And it's not like I say to myself, "yes, I shall sabotage my relationships and support the exploitation of women!" I run when I can, but sometimes I can't and my brain knows what would give it a temporary reprieve from the abject misery of life in general.

    I don't want to be dismissive of your experience, but this sounds, to me, like the addiction talking. Of course you don't go for standalone actors, they're just meat. Your addiction didn't escalate into lesbians, you prefer hetero glamour porn, so what? Explaining the ins and outs of your fetish (I know what I just did and I'm not sorry) will not endear you to your SO. Instead of explaining to her why your P addiction isn't a big deal to you, why don't you spend some time listening to her about why it is a big deal to her?
     
  15. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Are you familiar with Dr. Todd Love? I interviewed him about a year ago when I read his research about internet porn addiction. He's done work regarding ADHD and addiction as well. Ive not gone through it, but maybe you'll find something that will help you if you do.

    Also, my husband has ADHD, so I do understand where you're coming from. If I had known that, I would obviously have responded differently than I initially did

    https://www.doctoddlove.com/todd-love-blog
     
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  16. GhostWriter

    GhostWriter Fapstronaut

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    OK guys, I'm not going to waste any more of this gentleman's thread on our sidebar discussion. Wanna talk? PM me!
     
  17. Team rocket 420

    Team rocket 420 Fapstronaut

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    HAte to brake your heart bro but she’s getting them cheeks clapped by some one else focus on your self kings $$
     
  18. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    One doesn’t preclude the other.
     
  19. Ekhangel

    Ekhangel Fapstronaut

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    Also, I feel like the lesbian stage is among the first in porn addiction, it's not like you "escalate" to lesbian porn.
     
  20. Man of glass

    Man of glass Fapstronaut

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    Never open up to a woman.
     
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