Trans Relapse hello again depression.

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by fools’end, Oct 31, 2021.

  1. OP is religious. Deal with it.
    In case it was also directed at me: I am not even religious lmao? Sure, in my journal I said I'd read the Bible, but that was out of curiosity and wanting to know what that was about. But let's get out the religious mumbo-jumbo.


    Honestly, dude, this whole stuff you're doing is telling people with a problem that they don't have a problem. Religious mysticism my ass, heteronormativity my ass. Drug, alcohol addicts can recover their former selves after giving up alcohol or drugs, of whatever kind. Porn is addictive. No questioning that. As it is gambling. Addiction can bend your mind in more forms than just getting you high or wasted.

    You'll never tell a druggie to just embrace cocaine as a lifestyle. You'll never tell a gambler to gamble everything away if it makes them feel miserable afterwards but can't stop. So why you're doing this with this man? If you do not believe in porn addiction, or compulsive sexual behaviors being eithe real or harmful, why are you even here? To mock people?

    Addendum: as for me, I lived in a house where sex was a topic you could discuss at lunchtime. Repression is not the problem here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2021
  2. fusion47

    fusion47 Fapstronaut

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    I completely agree with you, the notion that porn in any way is beneficial is outright silly. Especially with all the information directly disproving that in this site. All in all, its up to each person to figure out their sexuality- many bisexual men are happy with how they are, but it is obvious most if not all, werent bi before porn. If porn is detrimental to figuring out ones real sexual tastes (rather than from real sexual experiences), and warps them, isnt it not only necessary, but urgently required to try to restore what i and many others felt was their "real" self?
     
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  3. modernstore99

    modernstore99 Fapstronaut

    @Giacomo Leopardi you can check out my story here: Am I a Sissy?? (Actually a good story with happy ending, trust me, read the whole thing)

    I agree that our desires and proclivities can shift over time. There's no doubt about that. But there are very specific processes going on in our brains when we habitually and impulsively watch porn. The best place to understand what happens to your brain during porn abuse is Your Brain on Porn. Here are some articles to get you started off:

    Start here for an overview of key concepts

    I’m straight, but attracted to transsexual or gay porn (or gay attracted to straight porn). What’s up?

    Does porn addiction cause irreversible damage to the brain?

    Why is the idea of sexual variety so enticing?

    What are the symptoms of excessive Internet porn use?

    How is Internet porn different from porn of the past?

    Studies reporting findings consistent with escalation of porn use (tolerance), habituation to porn, and even withdrawal symptoms

    I definitely had incredibly strong urges and desires for acts and themes I saw in sissy porn for a very long time. I even acted a lot of them out. Even though they were occasionally exhilarating and intense, they never brought me satisfaction, fulfillment, or contentedness. I always needed more, I was escalating to more extreme stuff, and I felt very confused and conflicted.

    I accepted for a while that I might be bi, gay, and considered gender-reaffirming surgery and hormone therapy. I'm totally ok with those things if they're true to who I am today.

    After I did a reboot though, I began to realize that all these desires and proclivities I was feeling were absolutely not what I wanted to do. After being in a relationship and having sex for several months, I realized the desires I was having and the pleasure I was getting between porn (especially sissy-related activities) and real sex and relationships stuff was completely different. It was unmistakable in my mind how different the feelings about the two were.

    I'm totally fine with being gay or bi. I live in one of the most liberal areas of the country, go to one of the most liberal schools in the country, and almost half of my friends are gay, bi, or queer. I accepted for a while that I might be gay or bi (that is one of the first steps in recovery from sissy porn abuse!). Yet amongst my friends, I am knowing as the "raging straight" (as opposed to some of them who are raging gays).

    I could not give a fuck if I was bi. It would probably give me some social clout ngl. And even though I really thought that's who I was years ago, I realize it was just programming in my mind by porn. It sucks that I wasted years of my life PMOing to shit that made me feel weird and took time away from actually productive things, but I have my whole life ahead of me to enjoy myself and others. When I was PMOing to sissy porn I felt alone, degenerate, and helplessly confused. In the past 3 years of recovery, in which I've had 2 long term girlfriends and several FWBS, I have felt incredibly connected, confident, and in tune with myself.

    Porn is not sex. The endless material, seeking of novel themes, and increase of arousal due to shock and anxiety causes certain interactions in the brain that make things like sissy porn seem highly rewarding. I've nothing against fetishes or pushing limits to heighten pleasure in the bedroom or alone. I've been with girls who want to be choked, degraded, and almost forced to have sex. I've heard of guys wanting to be stepped on, have their balls kicked, and put on a leash. The problem with porn is that it overstimulates you so much that you lose touch with reality and what you really want. Girls don't actually want to be forced to have sex and guys don't really want their testicles to be abused, it's just exciting during sex. Porn convinces you with this neural programming that you do actually want those things, even if the rational part of your brain knows that's false. Sissy porn is no different; you get conditioned to find those themes and material more arousing and rewarding than anything else, making them seem "true" to you. Compound that with guys who are insecure and have little sexual experience in real life to know the difference between desires, and you get crippling porn addiction with little visible ways out. To say that this doesn't happen is just categorically untrue.

    @AngrySard Love that quote "Porn is a good servant, but a bad master". All the shitty things and people in life are, love that.
     
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  4. modernstore99

    modernstore99 Fapstronaut

    I understand you may also think many guys who act straight in real life but watch gay/bi porn might just be in denial. That's fair, I'll give you that.

    But we're also seeing the opposite effect! Studies show gay men watch straight porn, often habitually and compulsively! Are these gay men in denial about their straightness?

    Sexually Explicit Media Use by Sexual Identity: A Comparative Analysis of Gay, Bisexual, and Heterosexual Men in the United States

    I’m straight, but attracted to transsexual or gay porn (or gay attracted to straight porn). What’s up?

    Check out these as well:

    Sexuality and the Brain

    Effects of Porn on the User
     
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  5. Mate, the axiomatic idea underpinning Gary Wilson's theory of porn addiction is neurological plasticity, which is analogous on a psychological level to the idea that our sexual preferences are malleable, fluid, subject to change, etc.

    Why is that so controversial?

    What I am disputing is the common idea that by "rebooting" you can go back to a uncorrupted "factory settings" sexuality, which, after all, is a strange and tenuous kind of analogy between the human brain and computer technology.

    Recovery does not consist in going back to normal, because there is no going back, you can only accept the new normal and move forward from there. That is why I make radical self acceptance the principle of all my recovery strategies. So when I came along and espied the OP saying he was ashamed of himself for all the things he had done in the past, I knew I had to intervene.

    Just because there might be bisexual dimensions to your selfhood, it is not your whole self, it's just another string in your bow, just another feather in your cap.
     
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  6. modernstore99

    modernstore99 Fapstronaut

    Have you actually read any of Gary Wilson's material or used YBOP? Your position that Wilson's "axiomatic idea" of sexual preferences being malleable is correct, but you don't include his conclusion: males who identify as straight that habitually escalate to gay porn are not necessarily gay, and usually are not. This also applies to gay men watching straight porn and straight women watching lesbian or gay porn; watching porn that does not coincide with their previously identified or well known sexual identity does not mean they actually wish to engage in those activities, it just means their porn use escalated due to the psychological effects of endless stimulation, novel themes/actors, and shock/anxiety. You're completely forgetting his final conclusion

    @AngrySard and I don't have anything against anyone in the LGTBQIA community, and we wouldn't care if we were either. Nothing we have said points to that in any way. We are saying, just like Gary Wilson and YBOP, that even if you watch bisexual porn, no matter how arousing or pleasurable it is, it does not necessarily mean you are bisexual, or even bierotic or biromantic. Us and Gary just want people to be fulfilled in their sexual relationships, no matter what orientation.

    If you think we are being homophobic or in denial of our "bisexual dimensions", read this study again (which I already linked but seems like you didn't read it):

    "There was also evidence of identity discrepant SEM viewing as 20.7 % of heterosexual-identified men reported viewing male same-sex behavior and 55.0 % of gay-identified men reported viewing heterosexual behavior."

    Sexually Explicit Media Use by Sexual Identity: A Comparative Analysis of Gay, Bisexual, and Heterosexual Men in the United States

    Check out some of these as well:

    Studies reporting findings consistent with escalation of porn use (tolerance), habituation to porn, and even withdrawal symptoms

    Are you seeing Gary Wilson's point? That people habitually watch porn, develop tolerances, and escalate to themes or activities that do not fit their desires or orientation. Do you not think he's saying that?
     
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  7. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    The idea that P permanently changes you and you just need to accept it is bullshit lmao
     
  8. An0nym0use1234

    An0nym0use1234 Fapstronaut

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    Honestly, I think both of those two arguing on the first page make some valid points. We should just agree to disagree on some beliefs.

    For me, I started using P at a very young age, and was accidentally exposed to "Shem**e" and f*ta too young. I thought it was really strange but intriguing at first because of how novel and different it was. It became something I would check out every now and then when regular P wasn't doing it.

    I don't know if it's because of that, or if it was "hardwired" but I can admit to some non hetero curiosity. I never acted on it. Actually I managed to have a several relationships with women, I was lucky to lose my virginity with a girl my age when I was 15. That helped me not worry too much about whether or not the trans P meant I wasn't straight or not. I looked at it, and also hooked up with women.

    When I stay away from porn, I do find that I have much stronger natural attraction to women in real life. It's honestly really frustrating haha. If all societal pressures were removed, maybe I would have tried experimenting with a guy. I don't know if that's bc of the P addiction or not. But I'm told l repulsed at the idea of getting intimate with a hairy, smelly man.

    So long story short, it is good to accept your feelings like that one poster said. Try to give up the shame. Focus on staying away from P and rebuilding a normal life and see what your sexuality naturally develops as.
     
  9. Errr mate...Did you not read those studies of dubious scientificity posted above? If you watch enough porn, you can temporarily go a bit gay. But, as our friend @modernstore99 reliably informs us, if you stop with the porn and get a nice girlfriend, the gay will go away.

    As they say in football circles: form is temporary, but class is permanent.
     
  10. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    I'm expressing disagreement over your original idea that you need to "accept the new normal" as if P has permanently changed you and there's nothing you can do but accept it.
     
  11. fusion47

    fusion47 Fapstronaut

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    I dont understand how you preaching this idea when nearly all of us who have escalated KNOW and FEEL that that ISNT THEM. Theres a difference between being in denial and knowing deep down whether or not someone is bi or not. We all know, otherwise we wouldnt be having this argument. I think you should realize the difference between addiction and attraction that is genuine.
     
  12. modernstore99

    modernstore99 Fapstronaut

    I agree. Let go of the shame you feel for having desires for non-hetero things, even if you penetrated yourself or actually did some sexual shit with a guy. People experiment sexually to find their deepest desires over time. Don't feel bad about trying shit out.

    However, scientific evidence is pointing towards the conclusion that habitual and escalating porn use can result in users developing intense cravings and desires for activities they simply don't want to do. The craving is there because porn has hardwired parts of our hunter-gatherer brains to behave in a self-destructive way, not because being gay is actually what that person wants to do.
     
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  13. modernstore99

    modernstore99 Fapstronaut

    Dude do not quote me after I gave you plenty of evidence to refute your argument and then you just didn't respond. I would laugh but that's so weak its more cringe than funny.

    Also, why are you calling Gary Wilson's work "studies of dubious scientificity" when you literally referenced them yourself?

    Here's the receipts: "Giacomo Leopardi said:
    Mate, the axiomatic idea underpinning Gary Wilson's theory of porn addiction is neurological plasticity, which is analogous on a psychological level to the idea that our sexual preferences are malleable, fluid, subject to change, etc.

    Why is that so controversial?".

    Are you really gonna reference a study to support one point in an argument and then call it dubious like 2 comments later? Can you please just choose a stance so that we can talk about it? C'mon man.


    As for your theory, no, you cannot "temporarily go a bit gay", even though it seems like it. Habitual and escalating internet porn consumption causes users to experience desires and cravings for sexual activities that often do not fall within their sexual boundaries, orientation, or even morals.

    It doesn't mean their sexuality has been changed or bent. It's still there, fully intact. Porn abuse has just desensitized your responses to "normal sexual stimuli" so much that they don't even arouse you anymore. In addition, the constant novelty of porn convinces what I call your "lizard brain", the ancient part of your brain that deals with arousal and is not very smart, that every time you JO to some new gay porn, you're spreading your genetic material into a prime female, making you feel really good about it and pushing you to seek more.

    You aren't temporarily gay. The part of you that's normal is still there. The neurons in your brain wired to natural rewards just get so desensitized that it seems like you don't even like it anymore. In addition, your brain begins to constantly seek out gay activities, or whatever you get addicted to, because your lizard brain thinks you're having a shitload of children when you O to it.

    In short, no, you do not go temporarily gay from porn abuse. I feel like this has been said before, but it seems like you just do not read what other people are saying and continue to jump around with your points.

    Please don't respond to this unless you're going to respond to my other post with all the studies. It's a good read, have a go
     
  14. fusion47

    fusion47 Fapstronaut

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    Hey man thanks for providing the research, it really helps to understand all of this. I just wish mote people could really feel what porn escalation feels like- not denial, but confusion. "Experimenting to find out your sexual tastes" will only do more harm than good, because those of us who have actually experienced it...we know, deep down, what we want.
     
  15. modernstore99

    modernstore99 Fapstronaut

    No problem man. Read up yourself and spread it around.
     
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  16. Man, how can you have a reasonable discussion with someone who is seriously maintaining his "lizard brain" made him go temporarily gay? What is that, evolutionary psychology?

    How can you have a reasonable discussion with someone who seriously maintains that through a mysterious process of dopaminergic degeneration he lost all his will-power, all his volition, all his agency, and was led to do things repeatedly which he nonetheless now says he didn't really want to do? That is to use dopamine as a kind of qualitus occulta to absolve yourself of all responsibility for your actions (which, incidentally, is the whole crux of the problem of porn addiction). So you can say: "...it weren't me, guv, it was the dopamine."

    How can you have a reasonable discussion with someone making a distinction between normal sexual stimuli and abnormal sexual stimuli? Who is the arbiter of normal and abnormal in the field of human sexuality? Gary Wilson? Sigmund Freud? The pope?

    And, really, why should those studies of dubious scientificity that Gary Wilson collated on his website be of any interest to me? The only reason you are breaking your neck to refer to them is because they confirm your prejudices. And, really, what do they say? That there are other self reported heterosexual young men out there, like yourself, who, on occasion, whenever the mood takes them, like to watch the odd bit of homoerotic pornographic content (or as you call it, abnormal sexual stimuli).

    Surely you must realise that there is no scientifically definitive way of verifying whether or nor anyone who says they are gay, straight or bisexual actually are what they say they are?
     
  17. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    (Referenced by paragraph)
    1. "Lizard brain" is an oversimplification. If you want an in depth scientific explanation, you can hear one from a doctor. However, the idea is the same in that it's a form of escalation in additiction.

    2. The debate of "choice" vs "disease" is a contested topic in ALL addictions and is not unique to P. Everyone has responsibility for their own actions, but to say or imply that all the effects and consequences of addiction are simply things that someone must want deep down is just insane.

    3. Its the person themselves and what they really want without P as a factor. For example, myself as an eight year old being exposed to non-consentual P and being conditioned to think that's a normal part of my sexuality. Perfect example of an abnormal stimulus that warps your natural sexuality.

    4. Of course they are self reported studies. As you said yourself, there is no scientific test a 3rd party can do to confirm whether someone is gay or straight. But if you truly believe that all of those people in these studies and everyone on this website is secretly gay and them watching P outside of their sexuality is NOT due to addiction/escalation, I would ask what special gift you have that you can know the inner workings and true desires of an individual better than they do (Especially when there is existing science on unnatural sexual conditioning).
     
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  18. mdz

    mdz Fapstronaut

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    Sexual arousal for trans and femboys, is usually a porn escalation. At least if you are hetero.
    I have been there but abstanied from it. and "deescalated".
    From viewing trans as "chick with a dick", now i see them as men with bras and wigs, wearing heels.
    Probably they need to shave in the morning too, and smell man sweat.
     
  19. An0nym0use1234

    An0nym0use1234 Fapstronaut

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    That's a good way to look at it. It's hard not to "see it" once you've seen it. At one point, I looked through some of the posts on reddit /r/transtimelines/ where trans people post before and after (sfw) photos of themselves.

    Just to be completely truthful, those trans girls you may be fapping too wear lots of makeup and use camera angles, and at one time were presenting fully as a man, maybe chubby and gross, or with a full man-beard. Hard to unsee.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  20. fusion47

    fusion47 Fapstronaut

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    Even rigut after viewing that stuff during escalation, you gwt this feeling like "they dont even look like a woman...". Its mote the fact that you KNOW its a man that makes it mote shocking, giving more dopamine.
     
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