Tricky place in the relationship, a little NSFW trigger warning.

My opinion is this is one of those situations where it’s important to have a serious conversation and set out a path to returning to normal sex life. I’ve had similar scenarios playing out within my own long term relationship where I won’t communicate my needs effectively and because of that I end up built up, frustrated and then I relapse.

IF you guys are on the mend and working things out at some point there needs to be a discussion between you two about returning to what you two consider a healthy sex life. And if what you two consider healthy is different from eachother then a compromise has to be found.
Part of a relationship is obligation to one another to fulfill those needs, within reason of the relationship. If one or the other is feeling deprived then there needs to be a dialogue because it’s not fair and not healthy to go on indefinitely sexually starved. Or only have it available when she deems it. That’s not cooperation, that’s a form of manipulation and control. You might be the in dog house for whatever happened but you have to figure out the path back to normalcy or that’s just torture.
Have a conversation about your needs don’t make it about her. That’s not pressuring that’s honest communication. Now obviously porn can warp our tastes and desires to be insatiable so this is all within context of your reboot and relationship.

 

Never pressure your partner for sex. Always seduce her, court her properly to make her desire his man. Make her have good times, and of course lead the interaction to have sex and respect when she say no to you, but keep the ambience fun and playfull and go at it again. When a woman is confortable with his man and feel that you care, the legs opens. When you force her, or don't date her she is not going to be confortable or feel that you care so she is not going to give you access to the playzone.

If you are doing everything rigth with her and you are still getting rejected for sex, why would you be with a woman that don't want to have sex with you? that's almost a friendship, I would definitevely recomend to look for a woman as good as her but that is happy and willing to have sex with you.

Bottom line, date your woman like it was the first months of the relationship and you are going to have more sex. The courtourship never ends, if you get complacent and stop dating her she is slowly going to avoid having sex with you.

 

You have greatly harmed your girlfriend by coercing her to selfishly pleasure you for years, without regard to her feelings, her safety, and her emotional wellness. Coercion is rape. Period. She does not want to have sex with you because of how you have sexually abused her over the years. She has not felt comfortable sleeping naked next to you and now that you have stopped attempting to coerce her, she feels safe enough to sleep comfortably again. She clearly has not healed yet and you want to reharm her because you can't control yourself. You are not ready for couples counseling. This is about you, not her. You both need individual counseling. Her for trauma. You need a CSAT also trained in trauma and start seeing him/her weekly to help you unravel why you feel entitled to sexually abuse her.

 

The issue is that you are thinking with your penis. No one ever died from not ejaculating. You aren't thinking of her at all. You are thinking of YOU and getting off. You are thinking of using her body to make your penis feel good. You are thinking of using her body as your personal receptacle. You are not thinking how using her makes her feel. You are concerned with being the taker, not the giver. You are concerned with how you physically feel and how you are entitled to use her for your personal release.

 

I would consider taking sex off the table completely. Don't set a time limit for it either (ie: we won't have sex for 2 weeks).

My husband and I ended up doing this and it helped his recovery. If sex is not an option, then other methods need to be used to redirect that excess energy. Methods such as exercising, running, cleaning something, fixing something.. things that require physical exertion and concentration.
A big part of why you experience frustration with the sexual build up is because you don't know how she is feeling about it, and your thoughts become clouded because you tend to focus on that (I need to have sex, otherwise I won't feel right) and you focus hard on it. If having sex is not an option, then your brain will adjust to using that energy for other things once you allow the avenue for it (I dont mean P or Psubs, I mean physical activity described above).
Now without sex, you'll have to find other ways to connect to your partner. This is where being in tune with her needs can come in handy, and will benefit your relationship overall once you figure those out. If you don't know, and you think it will be difficult to find out on your own, then ask her. Start making it a habit to ask her daily "what is it you need from me?" Even if she doesn't answer right away, it is on the table. This will also help her think about what it is she needs from you.

The end goal of recovery in a relationship should be about having a stronger connection with the partner. The opposite of addiction is connection.

 

Ok, wow, triggered much? Must have hit close to home. Let's break this down.

First, I should ask you wtf you are talking about. I never said any of this. Show me where I did. Do it. Don't twist what I said to fit your enraged interpretation, tell me where I said exactly what you just accused me of.

Second, I 100% agree with you. It is absolutely wrong to cheat on your spouse or significant other for any reason, either party. Physically, emotionally, mentally, with porn, with toys, with other people, with fantasies, whatever. If a person isn't happy, leave the relationship, don't cheat.

Again, I have never condoned cheating from anyone for any reason. I'm not sure where you are getting that I ever have. You are clearly projecting.

The issue isn't wanting sex, and if you actually think that is the issue, you are a gaslighting, narcissist that thinks forcing his sexual will on women is perfectly okay. Either that, or you think that I am stupid. The issue is pressuring or coercing someone to have sex when they have expressed they do not want to. It doesn't matter if it is the man pressuring the woman or vice versa. The fact is that 90% of this site is the male addict betraying and harming (physically and/or emotionally) the female partner. Of course it happens the other way around, but not even close to as often. So throw your little fit and call me sexist. Feign your outrage and offense. Doesn't matter to me. The stats show that this happens more often to women.

If a woman was pressuring and coercing her man to have sex with her when he was clear that he didn't want to, I would tell her the exact same thing. But the OP is a man, which is why I was talking about a man coercing a woman. I didn't generalize all men, I was speaking directly to the OP. He and I were having a calm, mature discussion, but you got triggered and flew into a rage.

Is your tantrum over now? You should go to bed early, it seems you missed your nap. But before you do, be sure to look up the definition of the word bashful. Try to use words you actually know the meaning of next time.

 

I think it is really mature of you to take a step back and look up the term sexual coercion. It shows you are willing to be open minded and learn and your posts here tell me you really do care about your girlfriend. Historically, most societies have been patriarchal have told men for centuries that they are entitled to women's bodies. Porn only serves to magnify that mind set, which is one of the reasons it can be so hard to overcome. From small children, men are told one thing and now you are trying to unlearn that. Kudos to you for genuinely attempting to educate yourself and unlearn things you have been taught that you now feel is wrong.

Yes, coercion is rape. However, it doesn't mean you are a rapist. But it does mean you have violated boundaries. Now that you are aware, I can tell you genuinely want to do better. You didn't know. You didn't intend to coerce. You didn't even realize that's what it was. There's a saying, when you know better, you do better. I can tell that is what you want to do.

@DefendMyHeart had good advice. Take sex off the table. Go for the minimum 90 day hard mode as described here on nofap. Concentrate on connecting with your partner in non sexual ways, cuddling, playing with each other's hair. Go on dates with each other and hold hands, let her put her head on your shoulder. You will find a new appreciation and closeness with her that you didn't know was possible. The sex fast will help you reset your brain from the porn to your love for her. You can do it.

 

You have no case, but keep trying. The OP can report it if he feels like I attacked him. You can click the ignore button if you don't want to hear from me. You inserted yourself into a conversation you were not a part of.

 

Can I just say that once you have reached a year into recovery you will view what @EyesWideOpen has written in a far different way? Sometimes the truth is very unpleasant. I do not think she was judging or trying in any way to shame you. She was trying to make you understand how years of abuse makes your partner feel. Only you can shame yourself. My husband feels intense shame, it’s what drives the addiction. I have never, not once tried to shame my husband. yet just talking about how his actions have changed me and harmed me use to immediately send him into a shame cycle.,two years working recovery he can now own what he has done, he can sit and listen without feelings of shame. That is what she was trying to get at. You have greatly harmed your gf and relationship. Now, understanding that, do better. Speaking the truth is not about shame or judging. Unfortunately, too many people would rather a comforting lie. Every addict on here will come and speak words of encouragement and sympathy. She was advocating for your gf. She has the experience of being the one harmed.

 

I understand her point of view.

When my husband introduced the idea to me (he wanted to try hard mode, where you abstain for 90 days) i was against it as well. I felt it was unfair that he decided this without talking to me to see how I felt. I was conflicted because I wanted that option to have sex if I happened to desire it. The other thing was, "if he's not getting that from me, where is he going to get it from?" This is a defense I think is built into a lot of people when you try to take away anything. Since you're in the very early stages of your reboot, which means she is in the very early stages of her healing, it is going to be very conflicting for her.

My husband and I, after putting this out there as an option (not having sex) took several months to finally both be on the same page. We went almost 60 days without it. The second time, we went around 30 days. We just continued like this where we would discuss it when the "urge" came up where if it was my desire, we would have sex but he wouldn't ejaculate. If it was his desire, he would redirect it towards another activity. If it is both of us that desire it, then he is free to ejaculate. Doing it this way has helped him be more in tune with my needs rather than his own. As an SO to a PA, there is going to be a very long period of conflict where we are not even sure of our own needs, but, we will have periods of time where we want to feel close to our partner and that may be through sexual expression.
You're going to do what works with your relationship. One of the major driving factors behind him not "finishing" was because of the chaser effect. This occurs after the PA has sex, where the desire and cravings for porn become stronger after having sex. The primary driver behind this is dopamine.

When you ejaculate to porn, there is more dopamine than you'll ever get with regular sex. That is what makes porn so addicting. So your brain will be operating under these conditions for a long time after abstaining from porn. If you and your gf do have regular sex, and you ejaculate, my advice for you would be to try and limit to days where you are only around her for the next 24 hours, and to limit or eliminate any exposure to stimuli that will create the same environment you're used to watching porn in (you can't heal in the same environment that made you sick). If sitting alone in an office with access to your device of choice is your trigger, try and avoid this for as long as possible after the fact, for example.

Is your gf in therapy? It took me 2 years to finally come to terms with the fact that I needed to see someone to help me heal. There are resources on a website called Bloom for Women if she is interested in learning more about betrayal trauma. I also meditate which has helped me with my own healing. Is she on this site? That would be another resource for her, to start her own journal for healing in the SO section. We even have a private section where she could join and have that freedom to express herself to other SO's on here without worry.

Healing will be a long journey for you both. Theres also a lot of resources for both of you. I wish both of you luck in this journey.

 

You know, I found this perspective you shared very interesting. It never once crossed my mind that my husband coerced me into sex.

I brought it up to him the other day. I told him that one of the other SO's on here mentioned that what the PA's do to their partners is essentially rape. He thought about it for a moment, then he agreed which really surprised me. I asked him why he thought it was rape and he said, "I was driven to have sex with you because of dopamine. You had sex with me out of obligation, not because you really wanted it".
I was floored. I tried to defend it for a moment, but realized he was right. During the early stages of his reboot, I only had sex with him out of obligation because I was afraid he would seek pleasure elsewhere if I didn't. I felt obligated being his wife, to allow him to use my body for his sexual expression when things got too rough for him.

He said he wouldn't go as far as to call anyone a rapist, including himself, but he understands how it could be considered rape or sexual coercion because once an addict becomes fixated on sexual desires, they are unable to focus elsewhere, and their partners feelings are not even considered until well after the fact.
This level of introspection on his part was very surprising. I'm hoping this introspection will eventually lead to him helping to fold the laundry, or not leave his shoes in the middle of the floor anymore.. but one day at a time.

 

I just want to make clear that I was not saying that all men do this, but I would submit that most SA men do. I was responding specifically to @bob200 when he stated

Everything you described in your conversation with your husband was right on when someone is pressured and coerced. I have had nearly the exact same conversation with mine. Obligation sex is not voluntary. Some call it rape. Some do not. Rape does come in many forms. Those offended at the term seem to think of it only as a violent, heinous act, full of rage and malice. But it isn't always. It also occurs silently and covertly when a person is so emotionally beaten down that the duty and obligation of it just happens and the victim acts as a robot because to do anything else would be worse. Regardless of what you want to call it, it cannot be argued that it is violating boundaries that should never need to be spoken.

I realize some may not like my words, but that doesn't make them untrue. I am not judging or shaming anyone. I call a spade a spade. I often anger those not ready to hear it. If you feel judged or shamed, it's because of how you already feel about your own poor behavior. If you feel that way after reading my words, perhaps it's because there is a light now shining on the poor behavior you haven't yet been ready to face or no one has ever pointed out to you how your addict behavior has affected those you love. Hopefully you enter recovery and as your brains heal from the abuse you have done to yourself, you will see these things with clearer mindsets. As I said earlier, when you know better, you do better. The first step is coming here and looking for answers. The second step is being open and receptive to ideas you may have never entertained before. Take what is useful and throw the rest away.

I don't mince words, I don't coddle, I don't beat around the bush. I am very direct and I call it like I see it. If you aren't willing to hear the hard things and seriously consider them, you aren't serious about recovery. No one gets sober by being made to feel comfortable.

 

Thank you.

 

I also wanted to add that addiction is generally a symptom of something else. Getting to the bottom of the underlying cause of what led you to your addiction is going to help you stay away from it. Addicts use as a form of self-medication, which numbs their feelings on whatever it was. It could be one thing or it could be many things. As you get further along in recovery, you're going to be confronted with many, many new exacerbated emotions because you've taken away the numbing agent. You're going to feel like P was somehow helpful and that if you were able to use again, you wouldn't be angry, depressed, anxious, suicidal, etc. This is withdrawal. This period you're in right now is the calm before the storm, and most guys, from what I've seen on here, start to feel pretty good around this time. However, once they hit 7-9 days, it begins to get rough. This is why therapy is important, and why having an accountability partner or finding a SA group will be extremely helpful to you. This is also why starting a journal on here would also be helpful because you can find support from other recovering addicts as well.

It is great to hear that your gf is on board. However, you have to remember that you're not going to see your recovery the same way. Finding others that are going through, or have gone through the same experiences as you and her will be what helps you the most. The first 2 years my husband went through recovery, I was all he had. I was his accountability partner, his therapist, his cheerleader, and...someone who eventually became his perceived enemy when his addict brain could not reach the outlet anymore. I would not recommend any SO take on any of those roles because it is added stress to the trauma and will eventually manifest physically after a period of time.

Recovery has to be about you wanting to do it, first and foremost. Otherwise nothing you do in recovery will matter too much. You'll just start to see anyone who is against P as the "bad guy" even your own gf. You have to see how this addiction changes your brain and takes away from who you are as a person. How it has crippled you in your life. Once this foundation is built, then you include the other part of how it impacts your relationship. If recovery is contingent on an external motivator, then you'll try to find ways around it, or give it up should the external motivator cease to exist in some form (if your gf and you break up for example).

I would encourage you to learn as much about this addiction as possible. There are resources out there that can help you understand it. Here are a few links that are good places to start


https://nofap.com/porn-addiction/

https://nofap.com/rebooting/

Here is one for your gf so she can start to understand what she is feeling and going through and to know she's not alone, or going crazy

https://bloomforwomen.com/courses/