Update and doubts

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Penelope, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    I have not posted for a while, but I read through the posts and visited often. I wish to share a bit of an update on what is going on in my life at the moment. After the last big fight in January, when I caught my SO Moing again (I came back in the morning because I forgot my phone, I heard him and was so upset that I left without actually seeing what was he getting off on this time/ and by now I never found out since he is claiming he was thinking of me and not watching nothing) he promised he will never do it again (for the 6th time). So long story short, he is supposed to be 90 days PMO free. Now, some things have improved during this time, he is more focused on me generally, he cut the oogling greatly and I gave him credit for it, he manages to stay hard/ but still requires stimulation before sex. So it looks better than before, he does not get so mad when I ask him about it and he calmly says he did not do nothing. Lately though, I have the little voice in my head and that gut feeling that something is off. It could be that I was hurt so bad and was lied to and gaslighted way too many times to be able to be trusting, he is generally behaving well, we have a better closer relationship, but sex, sex is still very much detached, he is still very ritualistic, needs his perfect situation, perfect circumstances and is back to showing signs of old fetishes. I am confused, and cannot wrap my head around it. I don't know if he is just going through the phase where he has flashbacks and maybe cravings that he transfers on me, or he is back at it again. I am tired of being a masturbatory aid instead of having passionate and loving sex. When I try to address this, he gets upset and accuses me of wanting to make him uncomfortable to make myself comfortable, in other words I pass as selfish. I am getting more and more tired. I have a busy and stressful job, I take care of so many things, I work really hard every day. The last thing I want is someone who constantly deceives me. I am one step from giving up.
    Thank you all for your kindness and understanding. And thank you for listening.
     
  2. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Have you seen the thread on what made you suspicious of your partner? @AnonymousAnnaXOXO might have a link
    Usually if you think something is off... It is
    Good luck
     
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  3. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    Thanks Kenzi for taking time to reply. I know it is a harsh moment for you now, so I appreciate it even more. Yeah I have seen the thread. And yeah, I believe that you are right. It probably is.
     
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  4. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    It's just my feelings on the subject.
    If I could go back and not push my own feelings aside... Not second guess myself? I would have done that.
     
    GG2002 likes this.
  5. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    I hear you. I don't want to do that anymore. I am done with playing.
     
  6. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Me too.
    And if you ever want to PM me, feel free to.
    I will always listen.
    *Hugs
    Try to have a good day, outside of this ok?
     
  7. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    I'm sorry you're going through these feelings again. I understand how difficult it is to see clearly when triggered. I'd definitely be suspicious with what you described happening with sex. Sex should be mutually satisfying, and you should be able to talk about that and your other concerns with your husband. If he's sincerely trying to make this up to you, he will show he is committed to his recovery. Is he in therapy? Are you in couple's therapy? Also, have you and him tried kareeza -- orgasmless (for him) sex, focusing on your pleasure?
     
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  8. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    I will thanks. :emoji_kissing_heart:
     
  9. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    Hi Torn, thanks for your reply. No he is not in therapy it is something he is not inclined to do, I am in counselling though. No we did not try kareeza not yet at least.
     
  10. Is he on NoFap? Does he have any accountability partners? Has he opened up to anyone--a close friend, a pastor, anyone? Has he told anyone about his struggle and failures?

    In my opinion, it is nearly impossible to change, for real / for good, without seeking outside help. ("outside" meaning someine else besides just your spouse)
     
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  11. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    Thank you GhostWriter, I hear what you are saying. The sad reality is that he does not recognize how PMO is bad for him. It is not normal to be 35 year old and have ED issues for most of your life. He does not even realize that is not how it should be. I do love him, but I am tired. Very tired and discouraged by his actions. He makes it seem like I am the one who is causing turmoil in our relationship, does not get at all that the broken trust is as fragile as a lief in the wind. Thank you for reaching to me. It is highly appreciated.
     
    Torn likes this.
  12. Torn

    Torn Fapstronaut

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    I wanted to come back to this and suggest boundaries and consequences as @GhostWriter already has. It sounds like the effect his PA has had on you emotionally isn't enough of a negative consequence to him. It wasn't for my partner, either, as he was in a stupor from his addicted brain chemicals. He didn't have the awareness and empathy I expected him to have (until he was sober for awhile). Honestly it wasn't until I moved to our basement and started looking for another place to live that my partner finally, TRULY committed to his recovery. He had to hit rock bottom as many addicts do.
     
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  13. Just me

    Just me Fapstronaut

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    I'd usually say to trust your gut..... But at the same time I feel like this porn habit makes us so paranoid all the time that it's hard to know when it is instinct and when it is paranoia.....
     
  14. Phoenix234

    Phoenix234 Fapstronaut

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    I am sorry girls. But I want to share my two cents. I find the post quite selfish. Please read my post I did a few moments ago about the same subject.
    If I had a partner who would give me such feeling of guilt and receive such blame i would certainly straighten out a few things fundamentally.
    I see a relation to be an arrangement of two people, right? A opportunity of accepting and loving each other and helping each other to unfold and become better together. Each one usually has massive things, a normal thing in humans, a lot of things where each one could be way better at. If it’s not PMO, there are many other traits blockages delusions inabilities insecurities fears ect. The normal thing of being a human being. Let’s be honest. Look at yourself. Now picking up one thing of the other - the PMO- and then putting everything on this one thing is just absolutely not right.
    If the guy is a jerk does not realize it and only thinks about himself it’s a different story. He then does not deserve any support then and then your post is acceptable to me, Penelope.
    But “he is supposed to be 90 days PMO free” is a really terrible attitude. Try to list ten of your character traits that could be significantly improved. You have them. Each one has. if you are able to be honest and list and then imagine someone expects from you to just not have it. Quite upsetting and selfish right?

    Your guy seems to do effort. Why not appreciating it a lot. Are you? He is making progress you say. Why not being grateful and supportive and endorsing this. Instead you give him:

    „He manages to stay hard but still needs stimulation“??? Lol...what’s wrong on that. Sounds like a judgement and a big expectation. „ he is more focused on me generally, he cut the oogling greatly ....So it looks better than before“.
    Are you happy and expressing it greatly to him? Do you really love him? Because if you really do you for sure will....
    You write instead...“I am tired of being a masturbatory aid instead of having passionate and loving sex. “ so it’s about your desires only. Did you ever try to be that for him and help him get out and into other forms of sex that suit both of you? Or just frustrated that it does not go your way?
    “I work hard....the last thing I want...” sorry but no love comes across to me. How should anything build? Relation is not that I only get what I want. This goes for both.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  15. Phoenix234

    Phoenix234 Fapstronaut

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    What i write comes from my experience and my own hard work on the subject. I have a very good relation and a lot of the points I describe are points that developed in our relation and became clear in our relation.
    I just like to look at things the way they are and point out the essence of things as this is meaningful and helpful for myself my marriage and for others.
    I am happy to discuss any of the points I am making with you. Which one are the ones you are having an issue with?
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  16. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am also trying to figure out if you are being sarcastic or for real? The OP could have 10 negative characteristics but that still won’t be equal to him being an addict and lying. It’s like you are bean counting and if she has more beans in her jar that are bad that makes up for his pmo and lying . Nope, it’s just a way for the addict to not accept responsibilities and blame shift to his partner. No it’s not normal to have to stimulate most 35 year old men to erections. I’ve been with 35 year olds and 40 year olds I know. And she is not at all being selfish by not wanting to be used as a masburatory tool, very few people do. And him doing that is not geared toward recovery. I think what a lot of pmo addicts don’t realize is how bad they are in bed. How sexually dissatisfied the SOs are. Because pmo addicts are selfish in bed and replicate what they see in P. They treat women like objects which is exactly what he’s doing when he uses her as an MO tool. We are not speaking of one person getting all they want. But truth be told the pmo addict has been doing that for years behaving selfishness and dismissive to his wife and her needs. The majority of partners would not willingly date an addict. You act like this is a guy with a bad personality trait or who’s asking to go out with the guys and wife gets mad. The addict of this so is beyond lucky that she’s even giving him a chance when most would walk away. And “is supposed to be pmo free” is not a bad way to come at for her it’s what happens when a person lies so much no one believes him. Grateful? Grateful for what? That he’s decided to act like a decent person?

    It’s clear you have no idea the negative effects pmo addiction has on an So or you wouid not comment like this.
     
  17. Phoenix234

    Phoenix234 Fapstronaut

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    Like I wrote I work through this PMO subject since a long time. I went through enormous developments and realized a lot. I live a very good relation that matured on both ways a lot. I consider myself being on the verge of having the addiction mastered.
    I am not only working on PMO but also on myself intensively and am with others where it is common to give a lot of constructive feedback. If you truly want to realize yourself. Want to bring out more and more what you really have inside yourself. Improve yourself and honestly and consequently work on this dedicated each day, you discover that there is a lot to be looked at. A lot to be discovered. A lot to be improved changed and eliminated. The things there are: Massive ignorance, wrong views, fears, projections, blockages, negative attitude . As you realize and work on getting these changed yes absolutely the PMO of one person is just one thing of a number. It was a massive thing in my life which fades away. It’s certainly only one thing of many and I can surely say that each one piece I worked and progressed in improved my life a lot!!! as a consequence. The same goes for my wife and our marriage and others we are related to.

    I see here the view of this: oh my god he is a PA this is very bad. Look at him. Point the fingers.
    Truth for me it’s not. If you work on this honestly and committed no matter what this person in my eyes is a very valuable person I have respect for. More than most other people who never look at themselves.
    I am not saying he is doing great being an addict. But the attitude and the honesty and the courage it takes and if this is what a person picks up. Yes deserves great respect in my eyes.
    Same like a alcoholic. If he starts facing it and strives getting off from it and consequently works on it.
    Or any other circumstances in which someone is low down and finds the point to change and consequently wirkson it.

    like you do in the 12 step program. Talk in your own I version about the problem. Not as a outside person giving advice or even blame and judgement.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  18. Phoenix234

    Phoenix234 Fapstronaut

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    But Penelope forgive me if I don’t do you right. I don’t know your story your efforts and what you are going through. I only reply to this note that looked to me like that there is a trying guy who improved and works on himself. If the context is a different one then forgive me if I don’t relate properly. What i write is my view about someone who does serious efforts and works on himself.
     
  19. Phoenix234

    Phoenix234 Fapstronaut

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    I agree with you guys that it’s luck for the Pmo guy to have a understanding partner.
    I also agree that he can be left or such commitment does not need to be brought as well as there is not obligation to working on something or reflecting on oneself. This is all the choice of each person.

    What I say is that if there are two people who really love each other you accept what the other has as long as there is serious striving. It can be bade of much growth. I am not saying Penelope must do this and can walk any time. If it’s too much and she cannot handle also understandable.

    What I say is that if two commit to each other then yes the PMO can be just one part of a larger picture in which both sides work on each other.

    Me personally would reject a partner that points the finger at me and thinks I am the wrong and bad one. And she is the one who suffers under it. I would not want this. Rather go alone or find someone else.

    From my experience for example it can be that the partners attitude can be bad for the process even when there is striving. The person can contribute in a negative way to the problem. Now she has a part too.

    My experience is that it takes a lot of realizations to gradually make a change and emerge. Many of these small key things. A person who does that matures a lot. If the partner did not work on nothing at that point the partner might not be interesting anymore as the one was working a lot matured a lot and the other not.

    For me a person who does not also reflect a lot on herself is not an attractive person. Not a person I want to be with.
     
  20. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I don’t think anyone is saying “oh my God he is a PA that is ver bad. Look at him.” Where do you see that? This is not about shame or judging someone’s conduct as wrong. It’s about how that conduct effects a SO. That’s why you are not seeing this correctly. An SO is saying I’ve been lied to, I have been turned down for sex, you have told me millions of times you would quit, not lie etc, this hurts me. And this is what addiction does to the SO in a relationship with a PMO addict. Does that mean she’s judging him as a “bad” person, of course not. It just means he is doing something that hurts her deeply and she wants it to stop. And it’s not just her. So that’s also the thing, there are often people that are just not compatible with each other. Maybe one needs to be more understanding or accepting of the other. So if they went out and dated they could find others that had zero issue with their behavior. A porn addict will 99% of the time have the same issues with any partner he dates. Being a porn addict, or any addict is adverse to being in a loving relationship. All of your responses shout “me me me, I I I, I want, I need,” but there is zero focus on what she needs. “I need her to be supportive, have the right attitude or I will fail.” You do understand that you are asking a person whom you heavily betrayed and hurt, who is dealing with all kind of pain, to ignore that and put your pain first right? What about her? Do you not maybe have a duty to put your effort into getting her to forgive you? With this attitude that is going to be VERY difficult. Often times when I read posts from addicts like this its clear to me that they are just not “there yet,” and that is exactly what I think is going on with the original poster. She has a partner who is just not there yet. He has most likely given up PMO, or cut back significantly, but he has not given up the PMO mindset, which is a selfish mind set, with the inability to truly see how your actions have effected your loved one, and how you should go about getting her forgiveness. This type of addict is still solely focused on his own pain of quitting so much that he has zero left to think of hers. Someone on here described this situation as a dry drunk. That was my ex. Sure he was clean, but did not want to be. He did not change his mindset, just stopped the acts, which will never lead to recovery. I cannot possibly see how an addict can fully recover, and certainly how he will be truly forgiven and not repeat his mistakes when he has an attitude like the OP’s partner and yourself. Here’s an example, SO walks in and finds the partner in a situation where he appears to be using porn. Addict in recovery and getting away from the PMO mindset says “honey here is my phone I was not looking, I promise. I am so sorry I understand why you don’t trust me, but I want you to trust me, please take me phone and look through it. Here are all my passwords.” An addict mindset pulls the phone away and hides it, becomes angry when asked to see the phone, starts to argue about privacy. The thing is often there is nothing on the phone, he was really checking out sports scores. But his resistance to letting her in, to push back on privacy grounds, shows that he is not ready to do all that it takes to be forgiven, and he is still in the secrecy mindset. Or “Honey I do not want to have sex like we do, I feel like a masturbatory tool,” is met by the addict in full recovery with, “I am so sorry that you feel that way. I have not had sex much off of PMO and so I really don’t know what I am doing wrong, can you show me? I want to fix this.” The addict says “What is wrong with you? I have come so far, you don’t even recognize my progress. You should be happy I am able to even get it up.” Do you see the difference here? There are two parts to recovery, your own personal recovery from PMO, and your SO’s recovery from rebuilding the trust you broke. The difference is you don’t need her to recovery from PMO she needs you to forgive. So if you don’t put the work and the tools in to get her there, she won’t forgive and move on. And it ties in with PMO recovery, because recovery means learning to be honest, to put others feelings wants and needs before your own, and living an honest and open life.
     

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