We shouldn’t be taxed on cash tips

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Fixmybrain, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. Fixmybrain

    Fixmybrain Fapstronaut

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    I’m not a dishonest person. I’m a proud & hard working American but I don’t agree with having cash tips taxed. When I leave a tip for the waiter/waitress I feel it isn’t right for the government to take even a little bit of that. I feel that a tip is personal gift from me to said person for providing excellent service
     
  2. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    Slippery Slope. You don't tax some income, pretty soon people start exploiting it. Oh no no no, the CEO just took a million dollar "tip".
     
  3. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    I hate to be that guy, but..So.... you agree to have more than 50% of your income stolen from you by the "government" to wage needless wars, finance foreign entities, enrich corrupt corporations, bankers and politicians but only angry about the tips tax?

    If you actually accurately calculate how much of your income is being taxed directly and indirectly by all world governments it will probably be more than 90%, The restaurant you are paying for had to pay taxes for its workers, which is taken from the price of your meal, building and municipality taxes, taxes on farmers, taxes on imports, taxes on manufacturing or importing the light bulb inside the restaurant, not to forget that anything imported had to pay taxes in its own country to fund an endless legion of corrupt government officials. It all adds up! Only scraps of that are being given back through things like paving roads, only a tiny tiny fraction!
     
  4. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    Taxation is theft with extra steps...
     
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  5. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    How is it theft? We agree to a social system that operates on governmental funding. If you do not agree to this, you can't take part in the society. Taxation only occurs on currency exchange, something that can't happen if you aren't participating in the society, implying you have agreed to the social contract. In other words, you can't have a road without money and you can't have money without society and you can't have society without everyone funding it.

    Taxes are your contribution, that is necessary. How the taxes are spent is something that should be debated, not whether or not we should be taxed.
     
  6. Muh roads! What about the roads??? I guess people wouldn’t take care of themselves without the government forcing them to
     
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  7. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    Is against my will, with duress, therefore theft, I never signed any "social contract", we never agreed to it, it was imposed, society doesn't equal goverment, you can have roads not goverment funded, in fact, the goverment usually pay companies to do the roads, but then again, if they take my money by force and spend it in stuff outside of my interest, is theft, period.

    Social contract, right, bollocks
     
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  8. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    You can convince yourself that you agreed on it, because you now feel the system is benefiting you. Once you experience its true realities you are in for a tough reckoning.
    I didn't agree to the society I am living in and there is no way to opt out.

    And BTW things, can be funded and created without government. There are different ways to make roads and public health care that does not require rule by gangsters.
     
    Psalm27:1my light likes this.
  9. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    Essentially you're saying you want the benefits the society has without the cost it takes to get those benefits. I'd be interested in hearing your proposal for public health care without taxes being involved at any point.
     
  10. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    Let me explain to you a real life scenario here.

    In a basic industrial zone "somewhere", there was no roads, only dirt. (Owners of the establishment can come together, pool money and fund a road, like any committee, it's possible to do it).
    But here is what happened under a government:
    -The government taxed the whole population huge amounts, and told them it's for roads, hospitals, etc.. In reality that money is stolen.
    -Afterwards that government claimed they have no money, they asked for foreign aid.
    -They got the money, from a foreign country at twice or three times the actual cost, made the roads then took a photo of that country's ambassador with a sign next to the new roads.
    -After that, they had the nerve to come to the industrialists and ask them for the cost of the road AGAIN!

    The same road cost about 10 times what it should have without government.
     
  11. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    I don't want any benefits of governments/gangsters. (period)
    I am not here to solve every little organizational issue. But let me give you an example of trash collection.
    A Syrian town before the civil war, had a trash problem inside the town. Government used to collect trash from the streets and markets but not enough.
    After the collapse of the government trash accumulated immensely because the government was not there to pick it up.
    Do you know what happened later?
    People stopped throwing trash and collected it on their own and it became the cleanest town in all of Syria.

    Things can be managed without government, you just underestimate the huge productivity gains technology have given us and the huge amount of useless government employees.
     
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  12. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    So narrow-minded, why it can only be done via goverment and forced collectivism? Explain that to me...
    And why do you need the healthcare system to be public on the first place?
    You are missing the whole point of taxes being taken by force to do whatever a small group of people decides to do with it...
     
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  13. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    Again, the discussion on how taxes *should* be spent is worthwhile, but that isn't quite what you're on about. So we can ignore your bullets entirely.

    Now these owners of the establishment, how did they become owners without a federal system intact which gave them right to ownership? Also, where is this money coming from? Is it a currency provided by government? Also, don't these guys become the gang that is gate keeping this road? On top of this, doesn't this imply that only the rich get roads? What about poor retarded Timmy, how does he get assistance?
     
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  14. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    Small group my ass, 110 million americans are on some kind of welfare. That is 1/3 of the population. These are people who aren't even be able to purchase some privatized healthcare system in the current fiasco, much less the completely privatized country your idolizing. The average American making $50k a year spends just about $400 a month on taxes going directly to welfare.

    If I were to give you the choice between giving $400 a month to help 110 million people and letting you keep it, are you honestly saying you would rather keep it? That's like being in a desert and not giving your extra water to someone dying next to you.
     
  15. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    You are just virtue signalling here, no one should be coerced into anything as long as he/she is not violating into anyone's natural rights.
    It's up to me to decide to help the poor or not, not for the government to decide it. Actually if you take away all the government corruption I doubt there will be many poor left.

    You do understand most of your taxes do not go to the poor but actually go to the military-industrial-corporation complex
    And that America is a special case because they are now getting to print money out of nothing and theoretically if that money wasn't stolen every one in America should of been a lot better off.
     
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  16. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    So you don't own anything unless granted permission and protection by the goverment? Is that your reasoning?

    Second, do you even know what money is? Only rich people get roads....like....what?

    Third...so, only by forcing me, that for the sake of the argument, i will say i don't give a damn about Timmy, to give away what it's mine, result of selling my time and life, can Timmy be helped? People can't organize and be generous, and create organizations in wich only participates kind people wich want the best for Timmy?

    I was referring to the group that decides how tax money is distributed...

    Oh boy I would keep it, don't try to buy me with your crocodile tears and emotional guilt horsecrap, it won't work. And trust me, you have no idea of what I would, and what I have done for people in need really next to me.
     
  17. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    No, I'm pointing out the result of your analysis. Again, we aren't discussing how taxes *should* be spent. You keep dragging it back to that as if it's an argument because the "taxes are theft" concept has no real legs to stand on.
     
  18. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

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    I would say we have taxes specifically because of people like you. Need some way to force you to contribute instead of being a layabout.
     
  19. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

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    You don't know me, you don't have to force me to contribute, but I would contribute to whatever I feel like I want to contribute, if you don't get that....nothing else we can do for you mate...

    Layabout, that was rich :D
     
  20. SoaringEagle

    SoaringEagle Fapstronaut

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    Just to change the discussion a bit to a different one and start on the right foot:
    Do you think you can be absolved of responsibility if taking orders from a government?
    For example: If you are a soldier, and an officer commands you to shoot someone. Do you think you are morally guilt free because you have obeyed an order?


    I think this is the true crux of the situation, can government be given rights that we humans do not have. I have no right to steal from people or "coerce' them into paying protection money or taking the life of an innocent soul, but if I am part of a government, magically I am morally allowed to?

    At the bottom of it all this is a moral question. I do not think anyone can coerce you by violating your right if government (uniformed gangster) or no government.

    BTW for the record I am not actually advocating to remove government now, the real controllers might even want some temporary chaos to implement more of martial law kind of scenario but it's a different topic , I am talking as a principle.
     

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