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What are you doing?

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by Son_of_Iroquois, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    If there is something you want to change in your life, the only thing that really matters is what you are DOING about it. What actions are you actually taking to make something different, to make your reality different? Thinking will definitely help you to plan and consider the infinite possibilities of your future. Feeling good about changing will help you too, in a way. But ultimately, what GENERATES your new reality in life is what you DO.

    First: what does it mean to "do" something? Simple. All that it means "to do" something is to focus your time and attention, and thus energy, on that thing. That's it. If I were to ask you "what are you doing right now?", you would say "I'm reading a post on NoFap in the Self Improvement section." Or, specifically: "I am focusing my time and attention on a post on NoFap in the Self Improvement section." That is all that it means when we say we are "doing" something: we are spending our time and attention, which is energy, either mental, or physical, on a certain thing.

    If you want to make a positive change, you must stop focusing your time and attention on the things that you don't like. STOP focusing on how bad it sucks being a virgin, or how much you hate being lonely, or how you hate your job. Those initial feelings of negativity are important to propel you AWAY from something that you don't like, but at some point you must generate the POSITIVE state that you want by focusing your time and attention on that new positive reality. That is where the solution lies.

    So if you are a virgin and you want to meet a pretty young woman and get laid, 99% of making that happen is doing things to move towards that goal. Are you going out and approaching women at parties or clubs? What about during the day, are you approaching women there? Are you working on yourself and building up your stength, your fitness, both mentally and physically? What are you doing? What are you focusing your time and attention on?

    Because as soon as you start to do something in one direction, everything, every part of you, begins to metamorphose at a very deep level into this new thing. If I start walking south, every part of me is walking south. If I start walking north, every part of me then redirects and starts walking north. If I start focusing my time and attention on getting the job I want, then every part of me begins to shift and redirect to make this happen. So it is with everything.

    But all that matters is what you are doing, because if you aren't doing anything, then nothing will happen.
     
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  2. - Ω -

    - Ω - Guest

    I've never liked the idea of "creating my own reality" since this seems countrary to reason. I have an intellect, which means I have the ability to know, which means I discover reality not create it. My goal is to unite my understanding with reality not create a "reality" which unites to my behaviors. That's how I got hooked to PMO in the first place.

    I also cannot understand for the life of me the big deal with peolple being upset because they're virgins?! Why are so many people ashamed of it or let it be an obstacle to self confidence? Also how is working to get laid going to help shape better men/women for the future? I don't understand why people think casual/mindless sex with real people is somehow better for society as opposed to PMO. They both seem like two sides to the same coin.
     
  3. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    Everything that exists around you at this very moment, with the exception of nature, was created by the mental power, the thoughts, of a human being. Every action that you have taken in your life was taken because you first accepted that the action was valid in your mind (either consciously or unconsciously), and then you as an individual exerted your own mental and physical energy to continue that pattern of action in accordance with the belief that you had about it being valid. This is the de facto creation of reality. Yes, there is a discoverable reality, or natural law, that can only be discovered and worked with, but there is also a malleable reality, or your own existence, which can be drastically altered, for better or for worse, through your own beliefs and actions.

    I would argue that a person who is addicted to PMO is attempting to escape from their inner authority and power. The act of allowing PMO into their life in a substantial way is the ABDICATION of creative power, not the expression of it.

    If a person is fine with being a virgin, no problem. But for those who have had positive sexual experiences, they know that it opens up a whole new realm of beauty and personal power in life. There is nothing quite as uplifting as meeting a beautiful woman who you connect with on a deep level and having a passionate relationship with her. I am simply saying that if a person wants that, and really they should want that, then they have to take consistent action to make it happen. What is more troubling these days is that more and more men don't want sex, they don't want to connect with women on a deep and intimate level. That to me is more troubling.
     
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  4. - Ω -

    - Ω - Guest

    I don't consider this creating reality. I understand I move with purpose and this purpose is drawn from my observations of the natural law and my surroundings, however, I don't assume my decision to be valid unless it has been revealed to me that it is. If I continue with my action I do so to test my hypothesis. If I find that my hypothesis is not correct, then I change direction and make the necessary corrections. That is the extent of my malleable reality. In short in this life I am an explorer.

    Interesting insight.

    Right, but women are more than just passionate relationships. They have fears, annoyances, PMS, ect. People are so concerned with experiencing passion that when something/someone fails to become a 24/7 passion experience, they then break away from each other. Passions fade. Authentic relationships look for the complete experience; love. Love involves sacrifice and suffering. This is what we should be preparing ourselves for, not fleeting moments of self gratification.

    I don't know where you're getting the idea that more and more men don't want sex. Plenty of men want that passionate experience you mentioned, but they don't want to have to deal with the woman once the passion ends. You see the intimate experience is loving her for her perfections and her faults, her good days and her bad days,...kinda sounds like vows doesn't it?
     
  5. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    Revealed by whom? Or under what authority? I assume by your statements that follow directly after that you are the one deciding that, since you are the one creating the conditions for the hypothesis which you seek to test, and then you are also the arbiter who determines whether or not you have met those conditions.

    This is what I am saying, that the individual is essentially the one who creates their reality, UNDER the governance of natural law. Yes, there is an objective reality, but it is impossible for a human being to be fully at one with the objective reality of the universe. It is simply not possible. The universe is infinite and we are finite. Anyone who says they are fully inline with objective reality is deluded.

    But my point is there is also a subjective reality, allowed within the objective reality, for each individual to experience. While that subjective reality should aspire to harmonise with the overarching objective natural law, that subjective reality relies on the individual to take meaningful creative action in order to shape that reality to their intent.

    When I use the word "passion" I am using it to encompass the deepest aspects of a relationship. True passion takes into consideration all of the difficult and challenging aspects of life that a partner is going through and uplifts them through care and love.
     
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  6. I can relate to this thread. I used to sit on the couch, eating crap for dinner and wishing I was in better shape. I decided to get healthier, I committed to working out, and now I'm succeeding. I am doing p90x3 (total ass-kicker but so awesome) and I'm probably in the best shape I've ever been. You're right in that sometimes you just have to make things happen. You can't always control things outside of yourself, but you do have the power for change when it comes to your own life.
     
  7. - Ω -

    - Ω - Guest

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Would you consider then the height of passion to be marriage?

    Great work! I've had a similar experience this year with my health.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2016
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  8. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    That is a difficult question. I think in many ways marriage, with it's false sense of permanency, of security, codified through societal institutions and belief systems, in many ways destroys true passion. When there is the notion that what you have will last forever, that it is immutable, I think when a person has that notion then they will begin to take the other person for granted. Stagnation sets in. Dullness and mediocrity sets in, and all of these qualities kill passion.

    But if there is true passion, which is never taking someone else for granted, knowing always that they might walk away or be gone the next day, and still working towards the highest state of deep relationship with that person, challenging yourself everday to make yourself better for them, and likewise, they are making themselves better for you, then there is real passion. And when there is that real passion, there is a real marriage of the two people on a spiritual level far beyond anything that society can even touch, and then ceremonial marriage isn't even necessary.
     
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  9. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    Nice. I would say that taking health and fitness seriously is one of the best decisions anyone can make. There is no other choice that fundamentally affects so many other areas of life than how healthy a person is. It is actually the perfect example of changing reality for the better through conscious choice. Health affects energy levels, and thus mood, which affects relationships, career, personal goals, etc, etc. A person who makes a conscious effort to work on their health and maintain a high level of fitness will have a lot more energy to do what they want and they will live longer and be happier.
     
  10. I think sex is not only irrelevant but an impediment to this. I think it is necessary to transcend the basic carnal sexual impulse to actually have a deep and powerful relationship. I have experienced this several times. As well as the temporary illusion, and fictitious world of meaning I earnestly fabricated, with someone I was really just using for pleasure.

    The experience of sex is just pleasure, the other aspects of the sexual experience are an illusion, not some thing of power and beauty. The simple reality of intercourse is that it procreates (and of course it's no surprise this is pleasurable). But we live in this weird confused state where since we think we have the technology to remove the reality from the act of sex that sex has actually become something more meaningful. This is insanity. It's not the sexual pleasure that has meaning and brings happiness... it's the babies that give it meaning... the beauty and the power: it's in the new life that comes forth.

    Yes there are other forms of real and passionate connection with people but this only really happens in a meaningful way if the pleasurable aspect of it is secondary to the point of not being required.

    Well it's not the romantic attachment that has permanence. That is the big lie, the seemingly irresistible poison pill, of modern western culture. Romance is only a bonding phase. The reason for the idea of permanence of marriage is your commitment to raise your offspring... your strive to be as permanent as you can make it... because they (your children) need you.
     
  11. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    I do not agree with you. I think that sex is more than just a means to an end, and that pleasure from sex is not "irrelevant" and meaningless if there is no intent to reproduce. Sex is a natural creative energy that we can take part in. Yes, the basic function of sex may be to reproduce but this doesn't mean human beings cannot enjoy sex and the pleasure it brings.


    So a man and woman must inevitably pass through the stage of romantic attachment after they have had their children, only staying together to do their duty of raising them with no real and lasting love for each other anymore? That seems really depressing. Isn't it possible for a man and a woman to be in love for their entire lives, rearing their children from the foundation of this love?
     
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  12. If you mean enjoying this natural creative thing once you take unnatural and even brutal steps to ensure the natural outcome does not occur... then no, that seems more like "enjoying violence" to me. If you mean between people who are already committed to raising children together then sure of course.

    No the romantic attachment is actually irrelevant. I even appreciate arranged marriages... at least as an idea... romance has got to be one of the worst, most error prone ways, to choose a mate.
    Your idea of beauty and love somehow seems intertwined with hedonism to me. The beauty both external and internal of a young woman disappears very quickly. And with it does any possibility of romance. Real love has nothing to do with pleasure or beauty. It's more like an intimate platonic friendship in which you are willing to sacrifice everything for the well being (as in 'fulfilling destiny of' not in as 'giving pleasure to') of the other. And raising children, if you give it your attention, is far more fascinating and intense than any cheap illusion of romance.... as is the bond of friendship of raising your children together. It's not a 'duty' or a 'punishment' it's actually the whole point.
     
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  13. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    It depends what you mean by "unnatural and brutal steps". If you are referring to the use of contraception to preclude insemination as "unnatural and brutal", then I would disagree with you. Technically it may be "unnatural" if a man uses a condom or a woman uses an intrauterine device, but if you are applying the term "unnatural" with these stringent conditions then it is also unnatural to drive a car, speak on the telephone, or use a microwave. Getting an operation to remove a cancerous tumor would be unnatural under your conditions.

    The fact is that human beings have the power to control and manipulate the "natural" world to our own advantage through the use of technology. It is something we are fully entitled to do, and the use of contraception to enjoy sex while limiting the chance of pregnancy is an example of this power.

    Wow. Ok. I view arranged marriages as one of the most despicable infringements upon the rights of the individual that a society can impose. You say you appreciate the "idea" of arranged marriages. What about the reality? The fact that some external entity would force a child to be paired with someone he or she may despise for the rest of their life is the very antithesis of personal liberty.

    You seem to advocate a purely logical framework for choosing a partner. I view this approach as deeply unnatural. Emotion is not logical, that is one of the reasons why it is effective at keeping people together. If we pursued mating from a purely logical standpoint, then really we should all be test tube babies, and when you want to reproduce you go to the Ministry of Reproduction and fill out a form for your new kids, all to the most rational specifications as outlined by the MOR. Then your sperm is paired in a laboratory with the ideal egg and you receive your new kids in 9 months. I'm being facetious but this is where your argument seems to be heading: no love, no emotion, those things are irrelevant to the task of reproduction. Your argument makes me think of the movie "Gattaca".

    Again, fundamentally disagree. There are many physically attractive women who are 30, 40, 50, etc. That is why attraction is not logical. I have encountered many women in their late 40s and 50s who I think are sexy. I hope if I get married that my sexual attraction to my wife lasts for my entire life.

    And how can you say that the "internal beauty of a woman disappears" very quickly? Surely women grow and mature as men do, and their internal beauty, if they choose a life of goodness and virtue, would burgeon with age, like a fine wine, as the saying goes. For you to cast aspersions on all women as fundamentally depreciating in external and internal beauty as they grow older is far more demeaning than someone who relishes in sexual attraction to women of all ages.

    It is very difficult to define "real love". Some philosophers have divided love in three ways: Erotic, Platonic, and Altruistic. I think that real love with a partner would include all three aspects:
    • (Erotic) You find your wife hot and your sexual relationship is amazing. (physical expression of love)
    • (Platonic) You are also your wife's best friend and she is yours. (emotional expression of love)
    • (Altruistic) And you make sacrifices for your wife, and she to you. (logical or spiritual expression of love)
    I see each realm as being valid and necessary, which is why I think God or the Creator gave us all three realms: sexual attraction, emotional bonding, and logical thought. Sexual attraction pulls people together, emotional bonding connects them deep within their personality, and logical thought lets them guide their decisions to ensure a productive life for their family. To deny any aspect of the different realms of creative power that we are given seems to me to be unnatural.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  14. I am only refuting your use of the word natural regarding, shall we say, 'sterile-made' sex.. it is not natural. Natural sex is procreative. Steril made sex is at best a technological luxury. Eating your food and vomiting it out so you can do it again. In practice it is not even that. Suffice it to say that people who are convinced that the pleasure of sex is unrelated to procreation quickly choose to destroy any 'unintended' life that does come from it. This is a destruction of human life in numbers far surpassing the worst atrocities of the 20th century. Nothing comes close. This is the brutalness of it.

    But the real point is that the pleasure is (rather obviously I think) is linked to it's function. Despite the romantic and sentimental attachments to sex it is, if not procreative, just a sensation. Granted a powerful sensation, but meaningless nonetheless. It will bring no lasting joy. Quite the opposite.

    You are thinking of forced arranged marriages. I agree that is awful. But all my Indian friends get some pressure and cajoling from the parents to marry the person the parents pick out. The majority refuse. Parents are disappointed. It doesn't cause a major problem. Life goes on. And I have one Indian friend who did accept her parents choice and married the man they chose for her.
    Not really. I just distrust romance completely. For the same reason I mistrust porn. Female beauty causes bad judgment in men.
    You are pretty unique in this. The advertising, movie and porn industry thinks you are unique in that too. There are a few, very few, women who can still be alluring at that age and then only with a supreme effort and even so they are but an echo of what they were when they were in their 20s. Physical beauty fades very fast women. A couple pounds a few years produces a huge difference. Keep in mind I am not like you (anymore) I do not find their beauty important. I only point out the transitory nature of beauty because if it is a significant factor the relationship is doomed. Her beauty will fade and there will be a never ending supply of younger more beautiful women showing up each year.

    I take your point on inner beauty but I was referring more to their persona. Many young women spend as much effort on their demeanor and behaviour as on their appearance. And many of those will cease this effort as they get a little older. This is exactly proportional to how important they regard their own external beauty... it's an illusion that cannot be maintained. An entirely different beauty is one of the woman who does not realize or care for her external beauty. Who is genuinely kind and affectionate and sensitive.
    And then it drives them apart. There are very few couples who keep the heat going after 5 years. And that really is as it should be. But the ones to whom that heat is important will end up running off to the next relationship... where the process will repeat itself until they wisen up
    .
     
  15. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    Why is "natural sex" so highly esteemed in your view? You equate what is "natural", i.e., the most basic form of sex as being of the highest value. I don't think it is. I think that sex evolved within a certain set of conditions where it was necessary to procreate all the time or mankind would die off, but we are past that time in our evolution, way past it. The world has 7.5 billion people and counting. "Natural sex" has done it's job. Now it can be argued, very rationally, that in the mankind's current situation, excessive procreation is actually what is unnatural, that mindlessly begetting offspring is the real problem in today's world. Just look at most of the developing world. Families have 3,4,5 children and cannot even afford to feed or clothe them. Most do not even have access to clean drinking water. This kind of unfettered reproduction may be "natural", but it is also very ignorant and wrong in these circumstances.

    Wow. That is your view of sex? That having sex is akin to eating your own vomit? Ok. Do you adhere to any religion that may cause you to think that way?

    I think that is an exaggeration. Sure, people start out having sex because it feels good, but then they fall in love and have kids, and most keep the kids because they are in a state of love.

    Again I would argue that it is more brutal and inhumane to bring a child into the world that cannot be fed, clothed, or given any kind of meaningful life. It is immoral.

    Sexual energy is a creative energy. It brings a vitality to life that otherwise would not be there. People who enjoy good sex enjoy life more: they enjoy doing things, experiencing the world, creating, and generally making the most of this existence. People who don't have sex regularly tend to be boring and lack energy and joy.

    If they are given the option to refuse, then that is less grievous. I still find the cultural conditioning that marriage and children is the fundamental purpose of life to be erroneous. It leads to less prosperity and harmony on Earth, and less personal liberty.

    If the man is not in control of himself, then yes. If the man possesses self control and self awareness, then female beauty can be enjoyed without causing inner conflict. It is the weak minded and insecure men who are threatened by female beauty.

    It depends where you live. I live in a big city in Canada; many women here make an active effort to stay in shape and look good their whole lives. I think if the woman only sees herself as a vessel for reproduction, then after having kids she will give up on her looks. Women who like having sex and want to stay sexually attractive make an effort to stay in shape and look good. This is another virtue of enjoying sex and letting it bring pleasure to your life.

    Don't agree. Women can be externally beautiful and internally beautiful.

    Again I think you are generalizing.
     
  16. It is not. You made a claim that sex is natural. Modern sex simply isn't.
    Didn't say that. I am giving an example (that I actually witnessed by the way) of ppl making themselves vomit so they can continue to stuff good food in their faces. E.g. making the pleasure of eating more important than the function of eating. Pleasure is nice, no doubt, but making it a goal is simply a form of insanity. Still bulimics or gluttons whatever these guys were are only harming themselves. They are not justifying killing human beings for their bizarre view of recreation. Perhaps we can invent a stomach condom for these poor guys?
    Seriously? Check abortion statistics. Over a billion world wide. Btw hedonists typically defend abortion saying unborn humans are not really human, have no rights, cause suffering etc. etc. so should die. The new age version of the core of old imperialism: the weak are removed for the benefit of the strong.
    Who said this? Or you assume that someone who rejects the sentimentality around sexual hedonism can only but think this? If not hedonism then only boredom, duty, procreation, poverty and lack of freedom? btw as an aside why so many immigrants to western countries. If decreasing population and birthrate is so harmonizing and freeing and wealth making why is this huge influx of immigrants needed? This is for the benefit of whom?
    Quite a religious statement that. Successful young hedonists tend to be happy and free, sure... but I doubt sex has much to do with it... It's more a giddiness mixed with superiority.. I think they are managing to live off the envy of the less successful hedonists who are the vast majority.. who are indeed miserable. It's rare to meet people who are actually free from the clutches of hedonism these days. It is no doubt the principal source of misery in the affluent western world. And the shallowness of thought and experience to be convinced by it is rather astonishing. It's like a collective addiction. I am embarrassed how long it took me to realize it.
    I do agree with that. I have met them. It is just very rare. The illusion of it is not so rare. The reality of it is. And I have only seen it in women who do not sexualize their beauty.

    Anyway I am not getting through. Much as I would not get through to my earlier self with these words. I wish you the best. Follow this path as long as it takes you to realize it is a dead end. That is what I had to do. You perhaps think on some level you can hit the hedonist jack-pot at the end of the rainbow of your choosing. It would be no blessing to reach it even f you could my friend. There is a much bigger more vibrant more interesting universe filled with joy and excitement that is not based on illusion. I just hope for your sake you don't waste as much time as I did realizing where it is.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2016
  17. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    By "modern sex", I presume you mean the intelligent use of contraception in order to limit the chance of disease and pregnancy. You have yet to inform me why human beings should deny themselves sexual pleasure.

    Ok, I see. You are comparing sex with bulimia, a revolting eating disorder. That's about as bad.

    I am not advocating making pleasure the "goal" of life. I am saying that pleasure is a part of life that can be enjoyed by well balanced, intelligent people.

    You have yet to tell me what is wrong with enjoying pleasure. If you wish to pursue the life of the ascetic, then that is your right. But if you want to convince others of the veracity of your life's choices then you have to give reasons why your lifestyle is beneficial. You have yet to do so.

    I am not a fan of abortion, but do think that it is justifiable in certain instances (such as rape and incest). However, the vast majority of people enjoy sex by using contraception and never get to the stage of having to abort a fetus.

    I do think that world would be a better place if there were less people. Simply having multiple kids with no plan to rear them or make the world a better place accelerates chaos and misery for all. In this way those who have kids and cannot provide for them are promoting more human suffering than those who abstain from having children but choose to enjoy sex as a natural part of life.

    You argument seems to be that child rearing is the default state that mankind should aspire to.

    I don't see anything wrong with experiencing life and enjoying it for what it is, sorry.


    You have yet to delineate your reasons why enjoying pleasure is so wrong. You have not stated your religion, or the code of conduct which you aspire to, and why, so I have little to go on as far as being convinced by you. You have simply made repeated statements that lead me to believe that you dislike sex and you dislike women.

    I am not a hedonist, I simply believe that sex between a man and woman is a good thing. I'm not looking for drug fueled orgies or pushing it to the limit. If a man and woman want to have sex and not have children, there is nothing wrong with that. It is actually better, in today's world, not to have kids, with all the overpopulation and poverty.

    I think you are the one living a life of illusion, not me.
     
  18. I have said over and over there is nothing wrong with pleasure. I am also not trying to convince anyone of my life's choices. I am just refuting some of your statements.

    Oh but you almost certainly are a hedonist. At least you score very high on the hedonism scale. Hedonism is not debauchery. Hedonism just means you place a very high value on pleasure. The majority of ppl in the west are hedonists without getting any of the pleasures they want. They are losers. They crave the sexual pleasure etc. but for whatever reason cannot attain it.

    Says the person living in a country that is desperately trying to stave of fiscal ruin due to demographic collapse of its population by bringing in huge numbers of immigrants. And no: I am not saying "child rearing is the default state that mankind should aspire to" I am saying your statement of 'overpopulation and poverty' is false. Western countries are not bringing in immigrants from developing nations out of altruistic goodness. They are doing it for their own self interest. Taking young able bodied educated ppl out of developing nations simply does not help these struggling countries.
    I agree. But you, just as the glutton who empties his stomach to eat more, wants to enjoy life for what it is not.

    The first argument is that it simply does not work. It is an illusion that does not last. Hotness in a woman is a function of several things, one of them is your hormone level which is decreasing over time and the other is her youth which is also decreasing. Even if that were not the case, and it may seem so for several years, there is boredom. Real pleasure comes from change. Familiarity breeds boredom. The Coolidge effect is what's required.

    But the second argument is that just about any pleasure pursued like this ends up having consequences. I can't think of any that do not. Though they differ in severity. The glutton wastes food and resources makes himself fat and unhealthy for instance... these are rather sizeable sacrifices for the 'pleasure' of eating but at least does not hurt others. Someone who thinks sex can be detached from it's function has a few more consequences to consider. Because seriously how many forms of enjoyment can you think of where someone could say: "Try this pleasure 'x' it's so great it's like 'creative energy', oh and btw over the next few decades 1.5 billion innocent people will die because of it" ... and the response to statement would be "...whatever, over population blah blah...." or perhaps "...well that's caused by stupid people, so not my problem..."
     
  19. Son_of_Iroquois

    Son_of_Iroquois Fapstronaut

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    Where are you from and what is your religion?
     
  20. Amen, sister!

    I started my fitness journey back in January. Started off super obese, and while I love being super, the obese shit has to change! Need to go from obese to beast as one guy put it. As of today I've almost lost 150lbs and I'm looking forward to losing MOAR!

    Anyway I'm super happy for you! Keep rocking it!
     
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