What do you think about pickup artists? Is it helpful?

Hmmm. It seems we have a different understanding of what a pick-up artist stands for. I am not even certain a pick-up artist does understand the values of love, respect and empathy themself. Often they brag about being very successful with women using these technics which is a complete contradiction. I actually do know one dude who does work as a pick-up artist and I had to laugh quite hard as I found out. He and his mates act like gurus which they clearly are not - they are wannabes but I am still certain this works with enough girls. He turned into a complete narcist. The argument that a pick-up artist can teach you love, respect and empathy is wrong I would say. A therapist or mentor is someone who could teach you sich values. There are specific therapists who focus on self-development and gaining self-esteem. I think this would be a sustainable way learn something for life.

One thing I like to tell everyone is to start traveling alone. Preferably abroad. This will give you and unbelievable boost in self-esteem and you will learn so much from this experience.
As sombody who was active in the pickup community for many years, I gotta say that your view on PickUp is very similar to what the mainstreem media says about it. "manipulative creeps, who are narcissists"
Let me say this however. I agree on your line of arguments. Yes, many so-called PUA's are uncalibrated narcissists, who think having had sex with 500 women somehow makes them superior (or "alpha" as they say), but if you had a perfect date with a guy, had a great time, maybe even good sex and you felt something; then he tells you he actually does PickUp. Would you judge him? Would you feel manipulated?
People that fit the stereotype of the creepy PickUp-Artist usually aren't real PickUp-Artists. They probably had sex with a girl in some club toilet and now they are feeding their ego with it. Modern self development (which is what PickUp has turned into) actually teaches you many good things. It teaches you self respect, acceptance and forgiveness. It gives you perspectives and pointers to hold on to when you are starting to learn how to correctly socially interact with others. It teaches you what a good man or woman is. It teaches you empathy.
And actually the basic idea of the so-called "alpha" is somebody who can abandon his own interests for the sake of others.

So don't judge. Judging generally is reflection of self-hate. Those aquaintances of yours don't know any better. They got stuck on a path they set on to become a better self. They haven't realised how ridiculous and pathetic they are. Pity them instead. Most people who get into "Game", rarely pull through to the end and do the hard work. Because it's hard being honest about personal flaws and making the best of them.

You know people like that dude you described are the reason why I got out in first place (and many of my friends as well). But I'll never forget what I learned.
 
Pick up artists are not what you want to be modeling yourself after. Concider how closely the concept of pick up artistry and the incel community have become associated and you can probably work out for yourself how having actual respect for woman as human beings and being a pick up artist are at odds with each other.
Get on tinder, be yourself, have no expectations, be honest and you will find someone. I did.
 
A proper match for the empowered women they pick up, who have the exact same attitude: Jack finds his Jill. Chad finds his Stacy.


The girls they're after don't understand either. ;)


Beta Provider game doesn't work on chicks younger than you (46).
Sales pitch if I eva heard one. Make that quota!
 
Something about the PUA scene has always rubbed me the wrong way. I think it's the psychological and emotional manipulation. On the other hand, "just be yourself" is also terrible advice for many men because who they are isn't a man women want to be with. That is an express ticket to the friendzone if she even lets you get that far.

I do admire the brazen boldness of successful PUAs... they are not afraid of women and will approach anyone who appeals to them, anytime, anywhere. That is a level of confidence that will get you places with women and in other areas of your life.

But to me, there are a few tried and true principles that are a lot simpler (though not always easy) than all the formulas the PUAs try to sell you. They are:

1) Be the best version of you - physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually

2) Don't put women on a pedestal; treat them all more or less equally or even, the hot ones with a little less deference because they have guys kissing their ass all the time. Not playing that game will set you apart.

3) Genuinely engage with her. Active listening, strong eye contact, ask questions that show you're paying attention and let her do most of the talking.

4) Stay true to your beliefs and don't try to "market" yourself as what you think she'd like. Differences create a sort of tension that women get off on.

5) Operate from an abundance mentality and don't get too tied up in the outcome with any particular woman. If you're not her thing, no problem, move on. So many times I've been out and about, saw a woman I thought was really hot and then 10 minutes later saw someone even hotter. And I live in an area that's not even known for an abundance of beautiful women.

PUA teaches techniques but what's far more important is mindset. If you're focused on being a quality man and your mind is right the "techniques" will come, and they'll be genuine and unique to who you are... which is what women are really looking for.

Great advice! I have always been intrigued by relationships and people, like getting to know people can be tough but once you get used to the above it comes way faster!
 
l have known and met many pua

first off. pick up artists are mentally ill, at least thats how they come off. most of them seem to come from broken homes and distrubing backgrounds. theyre almost all outcasts, social misfits, and loners. usually they are social failures that thats why they became pick up artists in the first place because no one would choose pua as a preference or priority over meeting females the normal way.

pua is not helpful, and manifests itself in 2 ways. first, most guys will have this reaction. they become pua after living a life of social failure. they go out, approach a bunch of females out of the blue, get turned down, and they quit. because it's painful, and yields no results, so whats the point? in this scenario, their self esteem is lowered because rejection further confirms that they are unwanted, or unliked, which is what they experienced growing up anyway.

the 2nd way, pua manifests itself is desensitization. the pua gets good at delivering his speech, and appears confident. notice l said appears confident, because you can become confident at something by virtue of doing it, whether it's cutting grass, singing, or shoveling snow. this does not mean you are confident in yourself. so the pua has figured out how to become desensitized by ignoring all input from others. by doing this, they become ignorant, and further unable to connect with others, because in order for you to shield yourself from the pain of rejection, you just turn off all sensors. lf you pay attention to guys who get females, theyre usually very in tune with what others are thinking, and feeling. its their ability to read the room that has allowed them to accelerate not only at getting females, but being a popular person. pua are doing the exact opposite, by becoming out of touch with those around him, he becomes even more isolated, and marginalized than he was before he started pick up. in order to become a successful pua, you cant let the rejection get to you, and in order to do that, you have to ignore what others are feeling. this is why when you observe pua, it;ll look like theyre having a 1 way conversation, or giving a speech. they ask all these meaningless questions, and reveal very little about themselves. lf you reveal very little about yourself, what's there to like about you? nothing. this is why if you observe pua, theyre all single, and have probably never dated anyone. in what universe is asking a bunch of meaningless questions a way to get someone to like you? hey, if u said u won a surfing competition, yea, sure, someone will like you. asking a female where shes from, and where she works is not going to make a female like you, but this is precisely what pua do. one of the most common things pua say is "do you like coffee", and "l've had a crush on you for the past 10 seconds". ok, so you had a crush on her, so whys she supposed to like you because you said that? youre essentially putting yourself out there, and then setting yourself to be turned down, with no dignity, or self respect. thats pretty much what pua does, it degrades you and brings you down to some kind of panhandler type status. pick up artists want to take the lead, but theres really no reason for anyone to follow any pick up artist. what does a pick up artist have to offer? does he have a large social circle? no. is he fun to be around? no. does he have money? no. look at all the tiktok puas, almost all of them are broke. theyre always on the street. you never see them inside of any events that actually cost money to go into. in fact, one of the reasons why they tend to be in streets, and parks is so they cant get kicked out. now why do pua have to worry about being kicked out? thats right, its cause cold approach is not popular at all, and people find it invasive, so you shouldnt be surprised to learn that pua are frequently banned from malls, colleges, and any kind of private facility. they were unpopular people to begin with and only become more unpopular after becoming pua. think about it, when was the last time you ever saw a pua invited to anyones home? when are they ever invited to parties? never.

in scenario 2, it's also very plausible for the pua to develop a hatred towards females, because much like scenario 1, the pua is getting turned down constantly, only pua #2 is getting turned down a whole lot more. instead of self reflecting, they begin to place blame on the female. you saw this with pua like eliot roger. the natural progresion is, the more a pua is rejected, the more hateful he will become. they say that the more cold approach you do the more confident you become, while this may not be true, what is true is that they do become more hateful towards females, and maybe even hateful towards the world, because all that negative energy that came from the rejection has to go somewhere. the more a man is rejected, the more that will shatter his core self esteem. and remember core self esteem, and confidence in delivering a speech are two difrent things. you can develop confidence in doing a specific task but be insecure in yourself. this is why when you listen to pua speak, they say very little about themselves, this is due to the fact that they feel they are unworthy. throughout most of their lives, no one cared who they were, and no one wanted to listen to them, and they assume that females also dont want to listen to them, this is why if you listen to pua, theyre mostly just asking female questions, and saying little about themselves. the fact that they reveal little about themselves also gives 0 reasons for females to like them, resulting in no attraction, and always being rejected.


essentially pua are trying to take a short cut. under normal circumstances, it takes months to get to know a female. what theyre trying to do is try to get to like them in 5 minutes which simply isnt going to happen. men who believe this is possible are just delusional. ln fact, one of the first things pua will tell you is you can get any girl you want, which is a joke. so right from the begining this movement is not valid. people dont want to believe it, but getting females takes time. you cant jump out of nowhere and say, here l am and expect random females to like you. furthermore, what reason do females have for liking you. most pua are not particularly athletic, theyre certainly not well connected, they usually dont have a good job. they have no track record, and thats what people like, a solid track record. even if you were a mailman who showed up everyday to deliver mail in a reponsible manner, that puts you miles ahead of any pua. what do pua have to offer? usually nothing. the one thing pua are good at is saying things in random languages, but rarely will a female want to date a guy because of that
 
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The best PUA is a person who can talk to a woman as they would talk to any other person who they want to get to know or become friends with. All the fancy lines and other bullshit from players who want to be PUA are insincere and not healthy for a long-term relationship.

Go out there and be yourself. Approach women with a smile and be an interesting person. Nobody wants to be in a relationship with a person who isn't interesting. My suggestion would be to read books not about PUA, but books that will make you knowledgeable and interesting.
 
Come on. You might be able to glean some basic tips, that’s fine. Best case scenario you pick up some hot girls and one night stand them. I know many successful men who are married and have dated a lot - none needed PÚA lessons.

You don’t need to be a PÚA, you don’t need to be a certain height, you just need to be interesting and have your shit some semblance of being together. Read some books, have a point of view that didn’t come from a podcast, go try to make some money, be genuine, be a little fearless, and you will meet girls.
 
I had found the PUA community to have a lot of good teachings on how a man can be more attractive to a woman.

From studying their teachings, I've been able to answer the tough questions for myself.

What made me sexually undesirable to women?

Why did I always get friend zoned?

What can I do to ensure that my wife will stay attracted to me?


A lot of us on NoFap struggle in our relationships and would do well to incorporate many of the teachings of the PUA community. Not everything though. There is one concept in the PUA community that don't agree with. And that is the idea of abundance mindset.
The PUA community would have one believe that an abundance mindset involves having sexual access to lots of women. And that's not true. Men, hear me out. Please don't envy those men that are having casual sex with loads of women. They are not fulfilled. This behavior reinforces a faulty sense of reality turning people into objects. It reinforces toxic shame. And it's in violation of Allen Carr's Easy Way.

True abundance mindset is achieved by learning to be content with the one or the zero that you already have.
 
Some good books to start off with are
Manual of Seduction by Franco
The Noble Art of Seducing Women by Kezia Noble
The Mystery Method by Erik von Markovik
 
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