What do you think caused your PA + religion question

First off, I'm no better than anyone else. I'm a sinner saved by grace. When I go to heaven, it will be through no merit or goodness of my own--absolutely none. The only difference between me and a non-believer is that I have forgiveness for my sins and they don't. That's not arrogance or pride, that's just the truth.

Please show me the parts of the Bible that I reject. This should be fun.

Wait, didn't I already ignore you? Dammit, guess I didn't click that button yet.

 

Actually @Estus, forget that. If you want to start a new off-topic discussion thread where you bash on Christians, be my guest and I'll happily debate all you want. But I'm not going to keep this up in a thread where @Sadgirl was actually looking for some constructive feedback.

 

The religion on here gets over the top at times.

 

First off what do any of those verses have to do with the Bible being accepting of sexual immorality? Yeah, the story is mankind is born flawed/ in sin and needs Gods forgiveness apparently this forgiveness is through Jesus. The "cue Christians can sin as much as they want with impunity" comment is an interesting one. Cleary this is not the case as life shows us there are indeed consequences for immoral behavior. I think the Bible answers this many times by stating that those who do such and such [ forbidden things ] will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It's quite clear you can not continue living in sin and have God's grace.

Your God sends people to hell because they don't believe in Jesus? Because they don't accept god's gift of grace. Why do they need God's grace, why is he sending everyone to, or maybe he isn't sending, but why are they going to hell? According to the Bible, it's because they sin and sin is why they were kicked out of Eden and Sin is why they go to hell. Sin is why you need forgiveness and God's grace.

You concept that sexual immorality is ok because Jesus washed the sin away is flawed. For one the bible says people who do these things will not enter the kingdom of heaven as well common sense tells you that murder is not OK, neither are abhorrent acts despite you apparently being forgiven for them and having them washed away. Tell it to the guy who's family got killed by enemy forces that the enemies sins are all washed away.

I think the Bible is quite clear despite your CHERRY PICKED VERSES that if you live in sin [ the sins listed in the bible as the ones keeping you out of heaven] you will go to hell and not be a part of the kingdom of heaven regardless of salvation.


Now like I said I'm not a Christian. My perspective is not that of a believer I'm just being factual about what is written in the Bible. Now while God may forgive our sins in the sense that we escape eternal damnation we still suffer for our sins. God's grace does not wipe away the consequences of sin this is evident all around us.


We are part of a nation of murderers, liars, and thieves. We eat animals that are tortured and raised for food in the most disgusting ways. We pollute and use far more than we should [destorying the planet], we live in excess, we buy items made by slaves because they are cheap or trendy. Meanwhile, we talk out of the sides of our mouths about kindness and doing good [ because it makes us feel tingly] while talking about bloody murder and horrors about the so-called "bad people". All this from a nation that was at least once considered Christian.


I don't think this ideology of God forgives everything and you can just go on doing whatever you like without consequence as long as you believe in Gods' grace is actually what's in the Bible, but that myth sounds like a dangerous one to me. It's the popular easy mode Christianity that has been around for as long as I can remember.


As for your theory that God understands sexual urges and is understanding of them because he was once a man. ????. Really? You are just pulling crap out of your ass. The Bible is pretty clear about sexual immorality and has drawn a very strict line. Regardless of your hair-brained theory.

You have stated you were once a sex addict. Jesus was not a sex addict. I as someone who once didn't Jerk-off and was celibate, I can tell you that abstinence greatly diminishes the sexual urges which are really due to a perverted brain. I've taken anabolic steroids and while I was jacked like mad I wasn't thinking about sex at all. It's not due to natural urges it's due to perversion in the brain

If Jesus was the son of God he can't relate to a perverted brain, to a sex addict, or a chronic wanker. Neither can the majority of people from that time as I doubt chronic wanking was an issue if it even existed.

 

Your misunderstandings and assumptions are so staggering that I'm compelled to take them apart piece by piece:

There's a clear difference between someone who has an addiction or struggles with sin, vs. someone who exclaims, "wow! God forgives me, so I'm free to do whatever I want." Paul is pretty adamant about the fallacy of this thinking in Romans 6.

Now, perhaps you're drawing a distinction between people who sin, vs. people who "live in sin." Depending on how you define that, I would probably agree with you. Someone who's truly saved would not "live in sin" and expect that they're 'all good' just because they believe.

"Is salvation by grace through faith alone, or by faith and works?"
"Salvation is by faith alone ... but faith without works is dead."

The point is that a Christian is saved by his faith, period. But if his faith isn't evident by his works, then he's probably not carrying a true faith. In the end, only God knows the condition of someone's heart. You are not in a position to say who is or isn't sincere in their faith. You are not in a position to determine who is or isn't "living in sin."

Somewhere you got the crazy idea that I think sexual immorality is okay.

No, you're not. You're only being 'factual' according to your own misunderstandings of what the Bible says.

Of course we still suffer consequences. The Bible doesn't say we won't suffer consequences. It says we won't suffer eternal damnation.

Why are you arguing against points that I'm not making?

You can't "just go on doing whatever you like as long as you believe". Again, read Romans 6. You wouldn't be spouting off all this crap if you actually had a working knowledge of the Bible.

Do you think Jesus was ever hungry? I hope so, because he was a human being who needed food. The Bible tells us he experienced hunger. Do you think he was ever thirsty? Yep, we've got that too. Did he ever cry? Yep. Did he laugh? Yep. Did he get angry and come at the merchants in the temple with a weapon? Yep, he understands rage. Did he get flogged repeatedly, have nails driven through his hands and feet? Yep, he understands physical pain.

It's not a stretch to think that Jesus experienced arousal. I didn't say he was sexually immoral. There's nothing sinful about feeling arousal. And you accuse me of 'pulling crap out of my ass.' Learn to think with an adult brain here, @Themadfapper. You'll sound a lot less ignorant.

"Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."
- Hebrews 2:18

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

I have a hunch this perspective is going to be unpopular on this thread, but here it goes:

First, the way I see it now, I would not describe myself as having a porn/masturbation addiction. The definition of addiction I tend to go by includes something like continuing "despite the substantial harm" that the behavior causes. Presently, there is no harm that masturbating is causing me. I've decided to make a change simply to be more productive. I have a few weeks of downtime, and I'm trying to keep on a schedule instead of having a porn tab open all the time.

However, growing up, I had a problem with porn and masturbation tied in with my sexuality. I looked at porn multiple times a day, and masturbated most often once a day but sometimes more. The thought of it was always on my mind because I had gone to a Christian school and was coming to realize that I'm gay. My Christian beliefs and sexual identity were completely at odds from my perspective. Hence, every free moment I had I was feeling guilty about my sexual orientation/porn/masturbating, so it was all I ever thought about in my free time. Hence, I would always have porn on my computer and my hand down my pants.

Eventually, it spiraled to the point I was so miserable that I realized I needed a change. It seemed inconceivable to me that a divine being who loved me would set me up with harmless urge that would send me to eternal damnation, so I quit believing that being gay was a sin (and eventually became agnostic). I had so much more mental clarity; I was focused on what was coming next in life instead of porn, and I was happier. Now, anything that resembles a porn problem for me just comes up when I have too much free time. These thoughts never interrupt me when I'm living my daily life so long as I have something else worth doing going on.

In short, I think it's a lot like when people say, "Don't think of elephants," and then elephants are all you can think of. If you believe that there is inherently something wrong with porn, masturbation, or sexual activity, you're going to end up thinking about it a lot more.

 

Yup, he was made a man. He suffered when Satan tempted him in the desert.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temptation_of_Christ

Your extrapolation that he suffered the temptation of the sins of masturbation and sexual immorality and therefore is very lenient and understanding about these sins is bonkers. You don't suffer the true temptation of those things unless you indulge in them first.


There is no mention of him being tempted to do sexual immorality and when it is stated he was tempted on all points if you are to make the illogical step that this includes sexual immorality then you would have to include everything else as well so he would have no special affinity for that sin any more than murderers, liars, torturers, and of course the sexual sins of pedophilia, necrophilia, etc.

 

It was your laissez-faire, cavalier attitude in regards to the shame of sexual immorality that gave me that impression.

You should feel ashamed. I do.

A verse on masturbation.

It is good to feel shame for a shameful act. Lest it is repeated.

You misunderstand me. I only took slight against what I considered to be supercilious and insouciant.

 

I love when people use books of Jewish law to try and prove something to Christians. We're Christians, dude. We don't follow Jewish law. Christians live under the New Covenant that was established by Christ. Maybe next you can start telling me about all the dietary restrictions in Leviticus.

Sexual immorality is sinful. I've never said otherwise. I've never implied otherwise. But feel free to keep arguing against the convenient straw man you've created.

Oh, I don't have a cavalier attitude about shame at all. I have a fierce hatred of shame and I think it's horribly destructive. No one was ever shamed into righteousness. Shame only enhances someone's sense that they're basically a bad, awful person, and makes them more likely to continue to self-medicate. Shame keeps people in bondage to their sexual obsessions. Shame makes them do everything in their power to keep things secret, because their thought is 'if they knew, no one would love me.' And if you're here talking about how shameful it is, why the hell would anyone confess their deepest secrets to you with your judgmental attitude?

You seem to love using shame as a weapon, considering that you mocked my day count. I really don't think you're in any position to talk about moral behavior, much less what the Bible has to say about it.

Sorry, but you have to use normal human words if you expect me to understand what you're saying. I'm not someone who throws around big words so everyone thinks I'm smarter than I really am. Right now you sound like that law student who tried to embarrass Matt Damon at the bar in Good Will Hunting.

 

Dude, get over yourself. You're arguing against points that I've never made. Do you realize that?

I said Jesus experienced arousal. That's not the same thing as being tempted to sin sexually. Are you too dense to understand the difference between those two things?

 

The song of Solomon is the Old Testament. Why bring it up if it's not relevant?

Your quotes are all from the Old Testament. More of that Jewish law?

If people don't go to hell because of sin why do they go? I thought sin was the reason man was condemned?

 

Okay, I'm going to say that it was my relationship with my religious church going girlfriend that loved to fool around and play with my penis that set me up to become a PMO addict.
But I guess I could have ended the relationship, but I thought I loved her. When in actuality I loved the idea of her loving me.
She was a hypocrite and a bitch that used her religious beliefs to keep herself chaste, while abusing my innocent and good natured love for her.
So, I kinda do blame it on the church.
And women in general, because of how they learn to use sex as a tool and even a weapon to get what they want.
I hope that I haven't offended anyone. It's just my experience and my perspective.
Remember, I'm an old, divorced, lonely, depressed dude that lost a lot of time and money trying to secure the love of a woman. So it just might be sour grapes talking here! lol

 

I dont wish to get involved in any fight, but for what it's worth @Estus and @Themadfapper, @SuperFan 's reasoning here is that of the vast majority of mainline Protestant thinkers/ pastors.

I read and watch dozens of people who are considered the best thinkers and preachers in various Protestant denominations over the past 4-5 hundred years - and they all agree with the main points Superfan is making here.

If you don't like it - that's absolutely your right - but understand that what he's saying is perfectly orthodox Protestant thinking. Criticize the religion if you wish - but if you tell Superfan he doesn't know what he's talking about, you're wrong.

Catholics or Orthodox may take a slightly different view, but I can't speak for them.

 

Are you really this ignorant? Dude. Seriously. You're a total joke right now. Just stop.

You were referencing an Old Testament book of Jewish law. But the Old Testament contains books of law, history, prophesy, poetry, and songs. The quotes I used and the Song of Solomon are not books of law.

They go to hell because they have sin that isn't atoned for through the blood of Christ because they chose to reject it. That's why.

 

Madfapper (which is probably a fitting name) is hereby ignored. I can only waste my time for so long.

 

Ok I am offended.... and I donot know what to say. I hope they have Wifi in the hell and Vegetarian food.

 

Thanks for keeping me informed. [sarcasm] It's not what's written in the bible though. T

The "Christian" nations are also hedonistic, capitalistic, full of avarice and murdering people all over the world.

You are not entirely correct, though. As far as I know, mainstream Christianity still doesn't condone sexual immorality nor do they have parables about Jesus getting morning wood and his struggles with sexual temptation.


The majority of people think Christianity bogus and a fairytale and that evolution is real. I don't think what the majority of Christians think is any more relevant. Since when has the majority been right about anything? It's certainly no proof of anything

 

That was Estus, not me.

Why is the Pentateuch not relevant but other books are? what old testaments books are good and which are bad in your opinion?

Have you read the Pentateuch? Is the story of the Garden of Eden a JEWISH LAW? How about Moses and the exodus from Egypt, Noah, Abraham, Cain-Abel, etc. These are not LAW but stories*[ *you seem to be calling it history].

Why are these books not as relevant as the books of Danial and Isaiah that you quoted?

Why should we follow the teachings of and live our lives according to the book of Solomon [ apparently written by a guy in a state of intoxicating lust] but not from the first 5 books of the bible?

 

This is not a site on religion