What is the true cause of addicition?

[tsukuyomi16]

Are addictions like porn addiction, masturbation addiction, and other addictions self-contained or are they symptomatic of a more deeply rooted issue?

example of 'self-contained' explanation of addiction: A man is addicted to porn because it gives him an immediate but temporary sense of euphoria. The dopamine receptors in his brain, after years of addictive behavior, are accustomed to the practice making it difficult for the man to stop consuming porn even when he has the desire to.

example of 'deep-rooted causality' explanation of addiction: A man holds a fallible personal morality formed by several factors (e.g. his upbringing, the culture he grew up in, genetic predisposition, significant life events, etc.) to which he faithfully abides, unconsciously or consciously. The fallibility of this morality naturally produces symptoms like guilt, shame, and anxiety. The presumption that said morality is true, the ignorance that it is wrong, or the unwillingness to correct the morality leads the man to instinctively locate some other phenomenon that he can use as a scapegoat to account for the symptoms of the morality.

 

[Deleted Account]

Given your definitions of the two, it would seem the deeply rooted issue would be the cause and the self-contained would be the consequence of prolonged use. You see this in other addictions: once the chemical side of things have been addressed, they still have to find healthier ways to heal/cope with the deeply rooted issue which lead them on the path towards addiction.

 

[changemylife2]

According to the excellent book I am reading (Healing the Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw), toxic shame is the root of all addiction.

I think everyone on this site who classes themselves as being addicted should read it, I believe it will be life-changing for me.

 

[Icewarrior]

“The more joyful you become, the less need for pleasure in your life. When you are not joyful there will be desperate activity, and compulsive sexuality is one of these.”

Why are we not joyful? Well, what if it is, at it’s root, due to a limited identity we have adopted?

 

[CurseOfBinding]

“The more joyful you become, the less need for pleasure in your life. When you are not joyful there will be desperate activity, and compulsive sexuality is one of these.”

Why are we not joyful? Well, what if it is, at it’s root, due to a limited identity we have adopted?

I‘ve recently read „in the realm of hungry ghosts“ which also talks about how and why addictions develop. It basically says that due to certain events (the earlier in life the more impact they have) people are more or less capable of being content and happy with life by default. The less capable you are (for example due to being abused as a child) the more likely it is that you come back to the addictive substance or behavior as you are less content without it than ‚normal‘ people

 

[tsukuyomi16]

I‘ve recently read „in the realm of hungry ghosts“ which also talks about how and why addictions develop. It basically says that due to certain events (the earlier in life the more impact they have) people are more or less capable of being content and happy with life by default. The less capable you are (for example due to being abused as a child) the more likely it is that you come back to the addictive substance or behavior as you are less content without it than ‚normal‘ people

so basically saying that if you have a good childhood and upbringing your less likely to develop addictions

 

[Icewarrior]

I‘ve recently read „in the realm of hungry ghosts“ which also talks about how and why addictions develop. It basically says that due to certain events (the earlier in life the more impact they have) people are more or less capable of being content and happy with life by default. The less capable you are (for example due to being abused as a child) the more likely it is that you come back to the addictive substance or behavior as you are less content without it than ‚normal‘ people

Yes, indeed. However even those "normal" folks are heavily identified. Why don't they suffer with "addictions" like others? Well, perhaps they haven't experienced anguish to the same depth? Looking at it this way, pain and compulsive behavior could be a blessing in disguise - meaning we are compelled to look deep into our existence, whereas "normals," in many cases, don't appear to be.

 

[tsukuyomi16]

Yes, indeed. However even those "normal" folks are heavily identified. Why don't they suffer with "addictions" like others? Well, perhaps they haven't experienced anguish to the same depth? Looking at it this way, pain and compulsive behavior could be a blessing in disguise - meaning we are compelled to look deep into our existence, whereas "normals," in many cases, don't appear to be.

Yeah a lot of times normies agree with whatever is politically correct without thinking for themselves and stuff like that.

 

[Icewarrior]

Yeah a lot of times normies agree with whatever is politically correct without thinking for themselves and stuff like that.

For sure. Whatever the "majority" say and think is "right," right? The last 3 years on this planet have more than confirmed that.

 

[Deleted Account]

Traumas, shame, awful experiences in general. Most of the addicted people (if not everyone) became traumatized by something, developed strong feelings of sadness and shame around the problem and were looking for ways to cope/help to deal with these feelings.

 

[tsukuyomi16]

Traumas, shame, awful experiences in general. Most of the addicted people (if not everyone) became traumatized by something, developed strong feelings of sadness and shame around the problem and were looking for ways to cope/help to deal with these feelings.

I agree with you that addiction is more emotional in cause than chemical.

 

[SuperFan]

Are addictions like porn addiction, masturbation addiction, and other addictions self-contained or are they symptomatic of a more deeply rooted issue?

The root causes tend to be the 'deeply-rooted' ones you refer to, but what sustains addiction and allows it to "get its hooks in" is the way it hijacks the dopamine reward system.

 

[Icewarrior]

The root causes tend to be the 'deeply-rooted' ones you refer to, but what sustains addiction and allows it to "get its hooks in" is the way it hijacks the dopamine reward system.

What if what sustains addiction at its root is our continued state of ignorance about ourselves and the resulting states of craving and aversion?

How well do we know ourselves? Clearly not well at all as we are still slaves to cravings and aversions which cause us and others endless suffering.

 

[Max Imumoccupancy]

What if what sustains addiction at its root is our continued state of ignorance about ourselves and the resulting states of craving and aversion?

Spot on. Self reflection is the key. I've been doing this a lot this past month, and even though it hurts, I realized while reflecting on my past experiences that I can actually tell how depressed I was by the content that I used to look for at the time. As in vanilla > feeling normal/less bad or extreme > feeling depressed.

 

[tsukuyomi16]

Spot on. Self reflection is the key. I've been doing this a lot this past month, and even though it hurts, I realized while reflecting on my past experiences that I can actually tell how depressed I was by the content that I used to look for at the time. As in vanilla > feeling normal/less bad or extreme > feeling depressed.

That's actually such a good observation because you can asses what might be causing you the relapse in an effort to uproot the problem. Its hard to get right though.

 

[tsukuyomi16]

What if what sustains addiction at its root is our continued state of ignorance about ourselves and the resulting states of craving and aversion?

How well do we know ourselves? Clearly not well at all as we are still slaves to cravings and aversions which cause us and others endless suffering.

This is why God is necessary in my opinion. I used to look at the steps of AA and scoff, but it really makes sense to me now that we will never be able to know ourselves as God does.

 

[UlyssesResists]

I just heard a quote on a Covenant Eyes podcast to the effect: Addiction is not the source of your pain, addiction is the pain reliever. Of course addiction makes the pain worse, but we use the addiction to cope with pain. Sometimes, its deep past pain, sometimes it just boredom, loneliness, or anxiety. I think for the really compulsive and destructive sexual and porn addictions, there usually is some deep child hood wound. I've written about mine a lot in my journal: https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/ulysses-resists-ongoing-journal.356154/page-2#post-3727520

Instead of just theorizing, why not share your own story?

 

[tsukuyomi16]

I just heard a quote on a Covenant Eyes podcast to the effect: Addiction is not the source of your pain, addiction is the pain reliever. Of course addiction makes the pain worse, but we use the addiction to cope with pain. Sometimes, its deep past pain, sometimes it just boredom, loneliness, or anxiety. I think for the really compulsive and destructive sexual and porn addictions, there usually is some deep child hood wound. I've written about mine a lot in my journal: https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/ulysses-resists-ongoing-journal.356154/page-2#post-3727520

Instead of just theorizing, why not share your own story?

Sometimes you don't necessarily know what your wounds are.

 

[SuperFan]

What if what sustains addiction at its root is our continued state of ignorance about ourselves and the resulting states of craving and aversion?

I can understand the temptation to think this way. But to me, it's like the difference between a doctor's diagnosis and an actual treatment process.

If you're in "a state of ignorance about yourself," you may have a revelation where suddenly everything makes sense. You can connect the dots with crystal clarity, and you understand why you're driven to do the addictive behaviors you struggle with. But that knowledge isn't what heals you. What heals you is the practical process of abstaining and allowing the brain to reboot.

Back to the doctor analogy: I spent years of my life feeling lethargic, apathetic, and tired all the time, no matter how much sleep I got. I couldn't figure it out. My parents thought maybe I was anemic or depressed ... but my bloodwork was always perfectly normal, and I had plenty of joy in life ... so what was going on? I knew I snored pretty bad sometimes, so one day I decided to get a sleep study done. The staff put electrodes all over my head and face, and I slept for three hours in their lab. In those three hours, I stopped breathing 76 times. On average, I stopped breathing for 30 seconds, but at one point, I stopped breathing for a full minute in my sleep. So while I would sleep through the night, it was horrible quality sleep ... never spending much time in deep REM.

So, boom--knowledge! A diagnosis! I knew what was wrong with me! But that knowledge didn't heal me. I needed to actually figure out how to treat the problem.

We can spend years figuring out why we got addicted to porn, what the underlying driving factors are, etc. etc ... but if our brain chemistry has been hijacked and we're truly addicted, none of that knowledge will save us. Knowledge can help us know ourselves, but it's the hard work of abstaining, using filters, meditation, finding accountability, and other practical recovery tools that actually make us better.

 

[tsukuyomi16]

I can understand the temptation to think this way. But to me, it's like the difference between a doctor's diagnosis and an actual treatment process.

If you're in "a state of ignorance about yourself," you may have a revelation where suddenly everything makes sense. You can connect the dots with crystal clarity, and you understand why you're driven to do the addictive behaviors you struggle with. But that knowledge isn't what heals you. What heals you is the practical process of abstaining and allowing the brain to reboot.

Back to the doctor analogy: I spent years of my life feeling lethargic, apathetic, and tired all the time, no matter how much sleep I got. I couldn't figure it out. My parents thought maybe I was anemic or depressed ... but my bloodwork was always perfectly normal, and I had plenty of joy in life ... so what was going on? I knew I snored pretty bad sometimes, so one day I decided to get a sleep study done. The staff put electrodes all over my head and face, and I slept for three hours in their lab. In those three hours, I stopped breathing 76 times. On average, I stopped breathing for 30 seconds, but at one point, I stopped breathing for a full minute in my sleep. So while I would sleep through the night, it was horrible quality sleep ... never spending much time in deep REM.

So, boom--knowledge! A diagnosis! I knew what was wrong with me! But that knowledge didn't heal me. I needed to actually figure out how to treat the problem.

We can spend years figuring out why we got addicted to porn, what the underlying driving factors are, etc. etc ... but if our brain chemistry has been hijacked and we're truly addicted, none of that knowledge will save us. Knowledge can help us know ourselves, but it's the hard work of abstaining, using filters, meditation, finding accountability, and other practical recovery tools that actually make us better.

Yes, treating the problem is important, but it is hard to treat a problem if you don't know what it is. Using your analogy, the question is whether porn addiction is a symptom like lethargy or if it is a condition like sleep apnea. You seem to think that porn addiction is a condition and not a symptom. But couldn't it also be a symptom?