What makes you think sexual fantasizing is normal?

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by ultrafabber, May 6, 2019.

  1. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

    I mean, you take this for granted like i used to because every "sex specialist" out there tells you it's "normal" but why would it be normal?

    Why would it be normal to imagine that something that is obviously not happening is happening? Why would hallucinating be normal or healthy? Creating a woman that doesn't exist? Making your hand a woman? Fucking your own hand? How can any of this be normal, let alone healthy?

    For example i love summer and the beach. I love travelling to Greece and swimming and sitting in the sun as much as i can. I usually get to do it only once per year, if that, for one or two weeks. It seriously is the best possible vacation i can think of when it comes to relaxation. All other options pale in comparison. Do you know what i don't do, even if this is 100% my favorite thing ever? I don't fantasize about it. I never imagine myself on the hot beach, getting tanned. I never imagine swimming in the sea. I never imagine feeling the sand. Yes, it's my favorite thing in the world and I never fantasize about it. I just enjoy it when it happens and that's it. The rest of 350 days of the year I don't fantasize about it even once.

    As it is for the rest of things. I love a specific car (Skoda Octavia) and I wish i could buy it one day. I however never fantasize about being in the car, feeling the car, driving the car, washing the car. I just see it rolling on the street and tell myself i would really enjoy having it someday and go about my business. And the list can go on and on.

    So the question is, why is nobody seeing this disconnect and why does everybody keep saying that "sex fantasizing is normal and healthy", when all the other things you'd fantasize about are definitely not healthy?

    Don't mistake "fantasizing" for "having a wish" or "having a goal". I'm not saying that wanting to do a specific sexual act is wrong (like having sex with your wife on a beach for example)... but there is a huge difference between having a goal and actually living the action in your fantasy - imagining it's actually happening and deriving pleasure from it.

    What i also can't understand is how most nofappers agree that porn/instagram stalking etc are not good or healthy but sexual fantasizing is good and healthy. Those are literally the same thing. How is having a sexual fantasy with your teacher or hot colleague at work different than getting sexually aroused by a porn movie or an instagram half naked woman in sexual poses? How is a sex fantasy about your hot colleague "better" than looking at her FB/instagram and getting aroused that way? When i was at the peak of my PMO addiction i could create sexual fantasies that were more detailed than actual porn and i'm sure most addicts have very vivid sex fantasies. How come there is this disconnect between porn and sex fantasies?
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  2. Paul69

    Paul69 Fapstronaut

    I amnot sure if this is tue. I do fantasize about other stuff; I've had fantasies about lots of stuff. In my university time I once had the idea of creating a perfect formula for the mutual repulsion of two equal magnets. I just needed to solve one pesky elliptic equation, but I graduated and had to go into the army (consription still existed in my country). Huge distraction. Then I had brilliant ideas about starting my own company, but actually I got hired and the job was interesting. Many were the woman I fantasized about. Two things typically happened; either I got to know her and she was nothing like my fantasies, or I met somebody else.

    So was this a waste of time? I think not. I did not get to solve my equation, but thinking about it prepared my when other mathematical problems came my way. Thinking about starting my own company helped me prepare for some real business opportunities. And having thought about how to approach some women helped me when I met others. Even today when I read a recipe I can almost taste it. This helps me select the right recipe to try. So I think sexual fantasies themselves are not wrong - just do not let them become an obsession (as I have also done at times).
  3. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

    This is exactly the difference between fantasizing and imagination/goals i was talking about.

    When you were thinking about solving the ecuation you weren't "fantasizing", you were solving a problem. Fantasizing about the ecuation would've been imagining you already solved the ecuation and you were now enjoying how good that felt. Fantasizing implies already getting what you want before getting it.

    When you think how a food would taste like it's still just planning - you're not actually indulging in that and you're not feeling you're eating that food already. It's just part of setting a goal. If you were to spend 5 minutes imagining how good it would taste like, then yes, that would be fantasizing.

    What i'm describing is how most sexual fantasies go - they already assume the desired act is already happening (you fantasize you're actually having sex/kissing etc) and it is a repeated action. That is, the ones that fantasize don't just do it once and then not fantasize again for months or years. For them, fantasizing is a daily occurrence.
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  4. andi1987

    andi1987 Fapstronaut

    Just to understand: How do you define "have a goal" and "fantasizing?
    Professor Abraham likes this.
  5. Unpopular post and it speaks volumes. I still kind of do have a fantasizing problem, however its not sexual. It is the kind of feeling of being in a relationship, I always envision myself being with a girl and doing all kinds of stuff whether its walking, playing games, talking non-stop, kissing. It's all fake. But the reason I keep going back to it is because it makes you feel like you are in it but reality sets in and here I am alone. I try to be busy all the time but it's a very hard journey. Honestly it is the main reason why I don't approach girls as if I am interested in them, because the girl I envision in my mind is not what is in reality. Hope posts like this get more attention.
  6. XAI04

    XAI04 Fapstronaut

    It's not healthy and to add, sexual fantasy isn't comparable to fantasizing about a dream car or vacation. The reason they are not comparable is because of the consequences. There are no real consequences to dreaming about a vacation except maybe wasting your time. Sexual fantasy erodes your ability to bond and diminishes your self respect. It only gets worse and makes worse behaviors an eventuality.

    The reason why it is seen as normal is because the majority is too weak willed to do anything different and so they cope with settling in with their mediocrity. Also, having a bunch of sex addicts running around is good for business. Think about it - what kind of major studies have their been testing the mental well being of celibates as opposed to those who indulge? If these studies exist do you really think anyone would take them seriously. Controlling sexuality is a superhuman impossibility to most people. That's why celibacy is reserved for saints, prophets, and great warriors in human mythos.
    Deleted Account likes this.
  7. selfimprovement8008

    selfimprovement8008 Fapstronaut

    As a Muslim I think the positive consequence are: more drive, more creativeness
    negative consequence are : waste of time, letdown because its not real
    So the middle path is to choose fantasies wisely and if in regards to our pmo problems, sexual fantasies are normal in the sense that one does not " focus " on them and does not pedestalize nor give them the time of day so to speak and goes about their day as if the thought never came to them.
  8. fan·ta·size

    1. indulge in daydreaming about something desired.
      "he sometimes fantasized about emigrating"
      synonyms: daydream, dream, muse, indulge in fantasy, indulge in fancy, make-believe, playact, pretend, imagine, give free rein to one's imagination, build castles in the air, build castles in Spain, live in a dream world, indulge in woolgathering
      "I fantasized about London and what I'd do when I lived there"
      • imagine (something that one wants to happen).
        "they sometimes fantasize the destruction of the world"
    I dont dare define what is normal and abnormal. I do think people think about things before they do them and pretend how things will play out to test solutions and challenge assumptions. Since sex is a big drive in people's lives, possibly the biggest, it make sense people would engage in it frequently. Maybe because it's common people think its normal IDK.
    Liv4ever likes this.
  9. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    What comes to mind for me in reading this is the idea of living in the present, and also the idea of thought experiments. I don't think living in the present (at least for someone with an open mind, I think that could be a little fundamentalist too depending on how people think of it) means that you are never going to think about possible scenarios, but the key difference between fantasizing and imagining in a functional, useful way is fantasy tends to be motivated by instinct whether it's food, sex or whatever. Since it is largely instinctual there isn't a lot if intelligence in it. Some people might say there is a bit of creativity, but that could be questioned because it could simply be stepping out of the pattern of the norm, and the unusual and novel in itself isn't necessarily creative in any meaningful way.

    I remember seeing a TED talk about how our ideas have sex with each other in a sense, in that case it is procreative and yields new synthesis of knowledge. Fantasizing tends to be rather stagnant for the most part, which could be said of goals too if someone was only invested in the ambition of it and not all the details involved.

    Anyway, you originally framed it in terms of what is normal - a lot of times people equate what is normal with what is common too. Normality can be qualified in terms of the context and in terms of what works, which would imply a relationship, fantasy tends to be about a peak experience and it isn't a peak of understanding, but just a peak of enjoyment and being into entertaining that possibility. As compelling as it is when it becomes like Groundhog day and it's also out of touch with reality you gotta ask what is it good for? A creative synthesis that comes from something like visionary thought experiment tends to INFORM reality with groundbreaking work, whereas fantasy tends to take you to a lower level than reality because the addictive aspect makes it so you end up in a repetitive loop that goes nowhere.
  10. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

    Instagram and fantasizing isn't the same thing. One is pleasure derived from the outside, the other is produced by who you are. BIG difference.
    Notice how ton's of people here get into shemale porn, get HOCD and the like, because of porn. That would have never happened if they've never watched porn, meaning never used an external source, but stayed with who they are inside.

    Also, if fantasizing about lying on the beach would actually make you feel warm and get you tanned, you might do it too. ;)
    Meaning there's a stronger motivation to fantasize about sexual situations than there is for other things, because you can pleasure yourself and make it feel somewhat real.

    At the end of the day there's nothing that can beat a proper sexual relationship with a real woman and I do aim to make that the only source of sexual pleasure at some point in my life. But right now I'm beating a porn addiction and masturbating to fantasy is a very good substitute with virtually no harmful side effects.
    CH3RRY and Deleted Account like this.
  11. Michael Sternig

    Michael Sternig Fapstronaut

    porn fantasies?

    Big mistake dude. I can only warn you, it doesn't work that way. You need to get away from the addictive behaviour of fantasizing about having sex with women and masturbating while doing this.
    'Free your mind'

    An extremely good post about this was recently shared:
    sfmark12 likes this.
  12. Nanni

    Nanni Fapstronaut

    Well, in the case you are acting in a more normal way because you're dealing with real people, and this is what happens to people since the dawn of time. On the other hand your behavior is completely unnatural, because when the man was created he never had such a huge disposition of images and stimulating things like nowadays, and because of an "ancient dopamine mechanism" in the brain - pass the term - the reaction is something weird. In an age where thing are always just a click away, men are devastated and fall in the deepest of addictions. That's why the two situations you propose are radically different, and just the first one can be considered psychologically healthier than the second one. Fantasies represent however what makes you wanna have sex, and this is what takes human beings to reproduce themselves as everyone knows. But anyway you can always "abuse" of these fantasies, and it's up to you to reestablish the right stuff.
  13. Xaviar.marshall

    Xaviar.marshall Fapstronaut

    Today I'm having a mental break down..I'm still relapsing like crazy and I cant stop....last night I relapsed to a picture of a girl in my school that I thought was so sexy...and that relapse made me drool...but today I woke up and went to school and everything was questioning and questioning non stop then in 4th period that same weird ass kid kept staring at me...and it made my stomach drop...like into my feet because one time we locked eyes and I looked away and questioned y he cept looking at me...so then i began to have mini ppanic attacks in my head not out loud...do then I began to look at different videos on hocd and then the gay videos about how and when they knew that they were gay came up so I was scared at first to watch them but I did any way and this guy said that he knew that he was gay in highschool... I'm in highschool...and I also seen a video on someone saying porn can condition your sexual tastes....what if my interests in girls was due to porn..God forbid...when thatquestion popped up I almost cried man idk what to do man
  14. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

    Thanks for sharing that post. I do notice that women on the street can magically sense when I'm being needy, even without looking at me, it's almost like an aura. And that when I'm not I get lots of looks. So that post does resonate with that experience.

    So it's good that you call me out because I said "virtually no harmful side effects". What I should have said was "less harmful side effects than porn". Which I know is true.

    My whole approach is to fight one battle at a time. I'm still dealing with porn, I'm farther with it than I've ever been, but during that time I let myself have the masturbation to fantasy, even though I can sense on some level that it's bad. I've tried the cold turkey approach before, it just doesn't work for me. You can say what you want about masturbation to fantasy, it does blow off steam. Porn is just much more tempting when you have a full ballsack and didn't touch yourself for days or even weeks.

    But I try to keep MTF to a minimum, my girlfriend has always highest priority and I never touch myself 3-4 days prior to visiting her. Eventually I aim to get to the level of @Warren_Beatty .
    Michael Sternig likes this.
  15. Liv4ever

    Liv4ever Fapstronaut

    Fantasizing is no better than porn!
    Maybe even worse!
    Porn normally doesn't give you the ideal scenarios you need ..
    Fantasizing has no fkin limits.. It creates a pseudoreality where i think someone i interact with daily is gonna fk me??!! How absurd is that in reality.. Succesive interactions with those individuals will kill us with guilt!
  16. let's delineate between visualization/daydreaming and 'fantasy' as an escape....
    Fantasizing: Porn's back up drives.
    When I refer to 'fantasy' i mean in the negative, sexual way.

    Daydreaming/Visualization is a little different - this involves imagining yourself in different scenarios ( you probably did this a kid - imagine being and astronaut) maybe walking through a real life goal you have. (For example, imagine asking a girl you like out on a date, her saying yes - as long as you actually TRY THIS, it's healthy- sport psychologists even recommend it for athletes)
    In fact I would recommend this kind of daydreaming for people trying to quit PMO - imagine youself with a clean lifestyle, doing healthy activities, getting in shape, socializating just don't forget to DO IT in real life! :)

    Fantasizing - especially sexual - is different -it's an end in itself you get a dopamine rush, sometimes an almost drug like feeling, and it might involve stuff that you don't want as part of your real life.

    This sort of fantasizing is usually trying to fulfill an unmet need by sexualizing. It's almost like the dream - the 'urge' is trying to tell you something but it might not be what the fanatsy is - it could be the opposite. For example - it's not healthy to engage in a sissy /femdom fantasy - that fantasy urge could be you mind telling you for example, you feel inadquate as a man and need to work on your self confidence.

    Cultivate healthy ways to meet you needs and you won't sexualize them.

    In short, if your sexual fantasies seem a lot different than your normal on the street tastes, it's probably your brain trying to relieve some unmet need in an unhealthy way because you've trained it to only meet needs through sexual stimulation.
    ivanhoe likes this.
  18. countitjoy5

    countitjoy5 Fapstronaut

    When you aren't in the grasp of the addiction I find that I don't fantasize at all - I've recently relapsed but during my streaks I would go long periods of time without fantasizing. It's only when I let myself start browsing that it becomes an issue.
    ivanhoe and Michael Sternig like this.
  19. IGY

    IGY Fapstronaut
    NoFap Defender

    I am not surprized you never fantasize about a Skoda Octavia. They suck! :D
    cns likes this.
  20. TimeToQuitNow

    TimeToQuitNow Fapstronaut

    Why would it not be normal? People have fantasies of having a big house or a fast car or their dream job. Why would sex fantasies be any different?

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