What was I for?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Susannah, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    Warning: Very long post!

    Filled with questions this morning! I am currently taking some time away from my husband in an effort to get perspective and avoid rash decisions. For the most part, I am now indifferent to him and the marriage. One day the proverbial switch flipped in me and I stopped caring after a very long spell of intense concentration and hard work on the relationship. I beat my head against a wall until I came to the end of my capacity to keep doing it. There was some relief that came with the switch flip, but unfortunately I have found that, even in my indifference, the pain inflicted and the negative effects of BT remain with me. One negative effect that is burdening me this morning is what to do about recovering from the realization and hurt that comes from knowing I was never what my husband wanted. I fear this will stay with me for a long time.

    I know I am not alone in this, as it is a common refrain among SOs. @Jagliana talks about it a lot in her journal.

    When I used to bring this up with my husband, he would say, “Don’t confuse me with the addiction. The real me wants you.” But where does one draw that line? What is real preference and what is the addiction? Does that statement even make sense? Of course, people have preferences that feel innate, but to a very large extent, people’s preferences are influenced by the larger culture. We are told what to like, through marketing, tradition, etc. @GhostWriter made this point well, when he hypothesized a society where people are raised without any imposition of the culture on their sexual preferences. So how does one ever know what one really likes? Isn’t it the case that since we can’t return to that “untouched by culture” state, the only thing we have to go on when trying to answer this question is what we seek out and what we physically respond to? And what’s the problem with this anyway? One SO, (whose name I can't remember - so, so sorry! I will look for you and edit) made this point about preferences when she wrote something like, “I would rather have a well hung man with a full head of hair.” Her husband did not fit this description. I guess I think that the problem comes in when we encourage and cultivate certain preferences to a point where they interfere with “healthy” functioning. For instance, that SO acknowledged this preference in herself, but also stated that her husband was perfect for her and I believed her when she says it. Why did I believe her? Because I assume she never groomed her preference by spending months and years devoted to cultivating desire for it and directing her sexual attention to its pursuit to the point where it effectively precluded her from being able to respond with the same intensity to anything else. If she had done that, I would have a hard time believing she truly desired her husband.

    So it hurts. I now know that my husband chose to cultivate a preference for (fetishize) a very particular and relatively uncommon physical attribute that I do not have. And it wasn’t a situation like that SO described, where he simply had that preference, he acknowledged it, then lived his life. Instead, he felt compelled to search out images and concoct fantasies of his “type” for hours every day (while lying about working), all the while letting me think I was what he desired. Does it really matter whether he did this because it was a “real” preference or because of his addiction? Knowing these facts, I spend those magical hours lying awake in the middle of the night trying to figure just what the hell I was ever for? There is no way around the fact that no matter what my strengths and virtues, and no matter that he indeed genuinely loved me, I lacked a thing that was of HUGE, overwhelming importance to him. I was unable to satisfy him in a huge area of his life. What the hell was he doing with me?

    Most nights, the inescapable conclusion is that I was a compromise. I had everything he needed, except the one thing that he was compelled to spend hours every night directing his sexual energy toward. So he made the pragmatic choice. I was the thing he settled for because in reality, the thing he most wants doesn’t actually exist in any achievable way. A never-ending supply of 15 year olds (he would crumple them up and throw them away the day they turned 16) with that unusual attribute who are also willing to fuck him, simply doesn’t work out demographically. Realistically, there is no way for him to ever be totally satisfied in this requirement that has preoccupied him. That it was due to his addiction doesn’t really matter, the way I see it. As @Jagliana so eloquently put it, "What the c*ck wants, the c*ck wants." (Sorry! I can't make the quote thing work) So what the hell was he doing with me? I have the answer to my question. He should really be alone, but wanted the comfort and convenience of having a wife.

    The problem is that I wasn’t informed. I didn’t sign up to be relegated to being the comfort and convenience. And now I am left with the burden of worrying that I will never stop hating him for that.

    This whole thing reminds me of a Dan Savage column I read once, in which he tried to get women to “just get over” their men’s porn consumption. He talked about how it was inevitable and we just needed to accept it. He ended by saying something like, “But don’t worry. Men need their wives for lots of other things.” That was supposed to make us feel better, I guess? In effect, he was saying that it is the lot of wives to settle for and be happy with being the comfort and convenience and accept that they can never be the true desire. Is he right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  2. OMG you so made me spit coffee laughing when I got to this statement...it's so true and sad but at the same time, that's a hell of a way to put it lol
     
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  3. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    I agree. Not right, but maybe realistic and all we can hope for?
    Yes. Figuring out my own "twisted" reasons will be a serious area of inquiry for my foreseeable future. I CANNOT let this happen again.
    Right!? How can they possibly think we are going to buy this?
    ...and not a one of those women had anything in common with me.
    Some here say "yes". But even if that is sometimes the case, those few lucky SOs have the joy of knowing that eventually, with lots of intense psychological training and effort, their spouse learned to find them desirable. Woohoo!
    I'm getting there, but it still infuriates me.
    Bingo!
     
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  4. Since you asked, I will contribute my perspective, although I think it is (maybe?) different than what you are describing in your own case.

    I turned to P when I was a teen because it gave me a sense of intimacy that I was lacking in my own family. It wasn't real, but I felt wanted and cared for by these imaginary companions. When everyone else had left me alone, they were the ones who would always be with me. Pretty messed up, since these was not real interactions happening and there was no actual relationship. So, I replaced my lack of intimacy with false intimacy. Poor coping mechanism ftw.

    In my twenties, I dated a lot and slept around a lot and used P a lot. I was also heavily into drugs and alcohol. It was a pretty bad time. But my "type" IRL and in P was always pretty close to the same thing. I have certain things I'm attracted to, but mainly I just crave stability and steadfast companionship. In P, I was always looking for that -- a narrative about a deep connection between a man and a woman. I wanted that so much, but also feared it IRL. P was way easier, because the relationship was completely one-sided (I was the only one in it!). I could show up when I wanted connection and the leave when I was done. And there were no complicating factors like the other person actually having needs to be met -- or there even being another person to nurture at all! It was a total lie. And I grew to desire the fake thing instead of the real thing. Just easier that way.

    But when I met the woman who would be my wife, I knew within 24 hours that there was something different here. She was gloriously my "type" (and still is to this day -- hubba hubba [I hope that is OK to say]), but she was also wonderfully together and stable and had a strong mind and very little in the way of relational baggage. She was raised well and had an intact family. The first night we went out, we stayed up all night talking (we're both from fairly religious backgrounds, so despite my checkered past, there was no sex before marriage for us -- and certainly nothing to heavy on the first date!), and by morning I knew she could be it, if she felt the same.

    She did. I told her about my PMO. We moved past it. I figured it would go away. So did she. We're both conflict avoiders -- and it just never came up again. We got married, and everything was good as far as she knew. But the PMO never went away. I hid it from her for 15 years. I must have done so well, because when I finally confessed it all to her four years ago, it took her by complete surprise.

    The PMO never left because it was just easier to turn there for false, no-demands connection instead of to my wife for real, demanding relationship. I went to her, too -- I really do love her and we really did build something pretty good in those first 15 years. But there were times that I wanted that sense of deep connection without needing to work for it so hard, and so PMO stayed alive. These imaginary friends had been with me through thick and thin for most of my life. It was too hard to think about giving them up. So I didn't, and I convinced myself for a long time that this was OK and I had it in control. The "Christian" side of me knew this was a lie, but I simply had no strength to investigate it further and no desire to rock a boat that seemed pretty much just fine.

    When I worked from home for five years, the stress of my double life began to wear on me. Work was a major avenue for P for me, as I worked in IT and so knew how to access what I wanted and cover my tracks so no one would know. Now I was doing this from home, while my wife was right on the other side of the office door home schooling our two young sons. And as time went on, I couldn't stand the duplicity within myself. I was one person on one side of that door, and someone completely different on the other side of it. When it came to a head, I had to lie down on the floor for fear my heart would burst. I was so conflicted, I felt I would die.

    So I decided I had to quit the PMO. No problem. But then I realized I couldn't. I tried my hardest. I really wanted to be done with it. But I couldn't let it go. This was the place I went for easy comfort and non-confrontational acceptance. How could I give that up? And yet I had to, if I was going to be a person that I could stand to look at in the mirror.

    So I quit my career in IT and became a plumber. And that started a six-year journey that leads to today. i am back home and back in front of a computer a lot again (now I home school the boys and my wife works full-time outside the home), but the two years away from electronics while I was out in the field were very helpful for breaking the stranglehold that PMO held on me. I can be here at the keyboard again (with my accountability software and AP network securely in place!) without too much temptation, although I still have to be mindful (as my signature and recent journal entries prove all too well).

    So, sorry for the long story. I am sure there are lots of inconsistencies in the thought process I have briefly relayed. Such is the mind of an addict who was looking for his fix. But as for my wife being "second best" in terms of my P preferences, in my case this might have been true relationally, but has never been the case physically. (Not saying this somehow makes it better or OK. Just trying to draw the distinction here. perhaps that, too, is a lie and there is no difference.) I did replace relational connectedness with her with the false intimacy of P for many years. But now I see that it was all a lie and my only actual intimate connection has been with her all this time. The rest of it has just been a fantasy. In terms of pure physicality, though, I actually found my preferences in P shifting over time to become *more* like what my wife actually is physically. I am not saying that this is at all a good thing, and it is certainly not meant to be some sick compliment to her. My P use was a violation of her and our marriage. But in terms of beauty and pure vavoom, she has been, since the time we first met, the standard by which all other women have been judged, for better or worse.

    I hope this addressed your question in some helpful way. I realize it may have not. I am still quite new to sharing about all of this kind of stuff on here, so I apologize in advance if I come across as an ass in any of this. If I do, I suppose it is simply due to the fact that is exactly what I have been for many years. All I can do now is work toward a better future, one day at a time.

    Thanks for reading.
     
  5. stands to reason

    stands to reason Fapstronaut

    Dear Susannah,

    Of course Mr. Savage is not right. What kind of savage could be? God loves you, Susannah. Life will get better for you if you hear His gift of life and receive His Son, Jesus Christ. Why? Because then you can be assured that when you pray, God, your Father will hear you and will answer you. My screen name is [Stands To Reason] I've never been married so my words contain only my experience with my Savior. You can find Christian direction in my Posts, Conversations, and my Personal Journal. I said a prayer for you while typing these words. You can talk to God and ask Him to reveal Jesus Christ to you. He will. Most of all sorry you are in a destructive marriage. Sorry for your pain, but glad for you, to have time alone for yourself, to allow yourself to heal. You are alive. You can think and change for the better. Hopefully you are healthy and eating well. I don't don't know of Don Savage, my news comes from the KJV Bible. The reason being it's %100 truth and it teaches us that without God, without repentance from our sins, without asking for His forgiveness, without Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, none of what you've gone through will ever compare with what happens if we reject God's Son.

    That's what I hope you hear. Receive Jesus and He will save your soul. One day in heaven you will have everlasting life. Peace and joy. Find that in God. America is going to fall, sooner than most people know. The pain you are going through as tough as it is and has been, is a distraction of Satan to do what he does, and that is to steal, kill and destroy.

    Any Christian question you have I will answer with purpose to inform not to tell you what to do.

    Don't be afraid of anything. Go to Him, please.

    In deed and truth,

    Amen
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  6. It_is_time

    It_is_time Fapstronaut

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    I am also a Christian. I love Jesus deeply. I am not convinced, however, that this overzealous "turn or burn" bantering is helpful in this conversation. In my opinion, this really stops a valuable conversation dead in its tracks. I am sure you have good intentions, Mr stands to reason, but I don't think Bible bashing is the right way to go. Trying to convert people to your view of Christianity without having a conversation about the topic at hand is disrespectful. Actually, even a little insane, really.
     
  7. I truly appreciate your perspective on this...Mourde ALWAYS said when he saw me he knew. I just didn't think that was possible, however hearing your story and his adamant declaration (thank you for sharing AND congrats on your accomplishments!) definately gives me the belief that he means what he says. Thank you! And no, you don't come across in any way as an ass...I value your lessons and perspective.
     
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  8. 1dayattatime

    1dayattatime Fapstronaut

    i am sorry you are tormented by these thoughts. I imagine a lot of hoplessness and fear when you look back in your life and relationship.

    I dont know what is going on with him, but from my experience guys who get fixated on one thing like that have it tied to some traumatic event or the beginning of their sexuality and there are undelt-with un healed emotions that drive the fetish.

    I believe that sex addiction is a symptom of much deeper emotional wounds. Our emotons drive the addiction. I realized this when i was separated from my wife and struggling for sobriety about a year ago. One day iwas in the shower and got really strong urges, i didnt act on them that time, intead i decided to try something different. I got out of the shower sat on the edge of the bed i was sleeping in at the time and just made myself cry. I cried about something that was sad from my past, just to get the emotion out. I did that evey day for a while and my sexual urges completely disappeared. It was during that time that i experienced the reality that my body provides the solution to my emotions without me having any conscious thought about it. My point in sharing this is to say that there is more to the behavior and sexual preferences than cultural influence. It it possible that your SO has deep emotional things that he may not even remember that are driving his behavior.

    This is just my perspective and i can really only tell you my story, but i hope that it makes some kind of sense.
     
  9. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    I agree with 1dayatatime...heal the trauma and you heal the addiction. There’s a lot going on inside the minds of these guys.
    I think the journey of sobriety is in the hands of the PA as much as the healing of the SO is in our hands. I mean there’s a reason we’re together.
    It’s a delicate and tough situation to be.
    Prayers and hugs coming your way.
     
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  10. stands to reason

    stands to reason Fapstronaut

    @Lostneverland Glad to learn that you are Christian.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  11. Tannhauser

    Tannhauser Fapstronaut

    I do not know if my thoughts will be helpful or relevant, because I can only speak to my own experience.

    I think that this is a difficult question. First, I think many people's sexual preferences are modifiable and in flux. Just like culinary tastes - I like different food now in my mid-30's than I did in my 20's or as a Teen. Second, many of the PA's that I have talked to seem to have an issue where variety is what they like, so they flit like a humming bird from one performer to another, and from genre to genre to genre. Third, while some PA focus on particular physical attributes, it seems common to me for others to become obsessed with particular acts or scenarios rather than physical characteristics. Of course, many of those acts or scenarios are very problematic in and of themselves - but in those cases what they like has little bearing on who they like. Fourth, some PA seem to believe (to continue the food analogy) that they start to crave something only because it is something they cannot have. One's favorite meal, for example, may be a classical Thanksgiving dinner. One may love mashed potatoes, turkey, stuffing, gravy and pie - but after years of having it every day, one may start to crave sushi - even though the majority of what they like is already being given them. And if they are told they can't have sushi, some will want it even more. (man, I really need to go eat breakfast now, I'm making myself hungry).

    I say this not to justify the actions of a PA, but perhaps to explain them.

    My experience with PA came in three distinct phases, each separated by years of sobriety. When I was a teenager almost anything would do (and in the days of dial up Internet it was mostly still pictures rather than video). Then after I relapsed as a single adult I started to develop certain preferences, some of which would not necessarily have matched my future wife, some of which were quite different from her. Then I met my wife and fell head over heels in love with the most amazing woman I have ever encountered. I gave up P as we started dating, then stayed sober for a few years after we got married. However, I eventually relapsed and have been in a cycle of relapses and sobriety ever since (thought, thanks to NoFap, I feel I am on my way to recovery).

    One of the things that I did as I started to venture back into porn as a married man was to try to find women who as closely as possible resembled my wife. In part because she was what I now found attractive. In part because I was able to fantasize often that it was her and me in the video. And in part, I confess, because I figured if I got caught it would be less damning. What drove me back to porn was my own insecurities due to our increasingly lackluster love life at the time, my own inability to communicate those concerns, and my own selfishness and foolishness. It was nothing to do with any attribute - either physical or sexual - that she lacked.

    Moreover I have to ask the SO's in this thread: would it really have made you feel that much better if the women your PA had been looking at looked almost exactly like you? They would still be some fantasy - airbrushed, easily accessible and always eager and willing - never too tired, too busy, too sick, too upset or too distracted. And although the performers would age, the P videos and photos never would. And I would imagine that it would still be a traumatic betrayal that they had spent sexual energy outside of the bounds of marriage.

    Again, I cannot speak for all PA, I can only speak to my own experience. But I am with my wife because I fell madly and deeply in love with her. And while the passion has lamentably cooled as the relationship has matured, I still cannot believe how lucky I am to be with her. I am amazed every day by how good she is and I feel keenly to responsibility to do my best to deserve her and to live up to the inspiration she gives me to do better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  12. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    That is so true with my husband.... we have talked about this topic a lot and he admits he shouldn't have been in a relationship when we met and that he should have let me go but that he didnt because he liked me so much and that I was everything he wanted and was too selfish to see that by keeping me he was hurting me....

    I dont know if us SOs will ever truly understand 100% the addiction and how it isnt a reflection of us. Sadly we are with addicts which means they could have fallen into drinking, drugs, gambling, but given that most of the addicts on here got addicted between the ages of 9 and 15 most of them didnt have access to hard drugs or alcohol or casinos.... they had access to technology. Lots of addicts on here I see being a PMO addict but also an internet addict or video game addict.... kids had access to technology and because they were kids in pain not knowing how to handle things the internet provided an escape from that pain whether it was playing video games for 20 hours a day or watching porn or just sucked into endless YouTube videos....

    So when we SOs wonder.... they fell into this addiction because they had access during a time of pain.

    If our partners got addicted in their 2ps they could have fallen into a huge range of addictions but when one falls into addiction as a kid.... they fall into addictions they have access to
     
  13. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    From my understanding all addictions are based on unhealed trauma, the unavailability of attuned parenting, extreme abuse, which is relative to the sensitivity of the victim, the untaught coping strategies of dealing with emotional pain...etc.

    Boys/ men are taught to be tough, not express their emotional wants needs and desires. As much as women’s rights have evolved, men’s emotional worlds have not. To see a man break down and sob , the first instinct of other men is to say, “ come on man, toughen up” or suck it up!or worse they are made fun of. They are taught to live in denial. Men are taught their sexual prowess equals masculinity. They self sooth when stressed, competed against, feel less than, and are depressed.

    What if men were encouraged to express their full range of emotions, or better yet taught by their parents what true emotions are? What if men were taught that sexuality is healthy, normal and a requirement for living a full and happy life. What if marriage was of the utmost importance and the love (physical, emotional, and spiritual) expression was healthy and normal. That they can lead a monogamous life , not because that’s what morality states, but because it’s challenging and exciting .

    How many women out there would reach out to their man , without judgement, criticism and confusion, when they saw their husband/boyfriend fall to the ground on their knees crying like a baby, cause they lost the promotion.Society has been taught that women are emotional and men are not. ( simplified statement).

    Our society is becoming desensitized. Desensitized to murder, rape, child abuse, beatings, etc...look at the TV shows in prime time time slots. How many children watch a rape on Tv. think of Law and Order. It’s becoming “normal” (acceptable) behaviour. There was a time when someone got raped, and the community was hunting the perpetrator down...today not so much.

    We are a society who disposes of things, people, and animals. We think that our lovers can be replaced or disposed of too. However, when you grow up without a safe place to land, without comforting arms and a loving embrace, Without someone who says you matter...cause let’s face it..we all want to matter to someone.. what happens? A person grows up self-reliant, self absorbed, self soothing, and unfortunately self protective. Who can blame them? It’s how they survived years of early trauma. Shatter that shell , heal the trauma, and you heal the addict.

    We all have a spirit and a soul. ( by spirit and soul I mean the part of you, that makes you YOU.) Unfortunately the addicts soul and spirit has been murdered. They are coping the best way they know how...they resort to their basic instinct.

    I think what is required of SO’s is acceptance, compassion, understanding, education and above all else love. These traits require the strength and faith that there are lessons to learn in life, boundaries to adhere to and a calm gentleness. It requires bold and brave honesty and truth in both sides of the equation. It’s not easy, and it may not be worth it...but then again..ya just never know...until you try with all your heart.

    I’m not sure what will happen with my PA and myself...all I can do is set limits and boundaries. If he wishes to heal, he will, and I will be by his side. Should he choose to avoid, hide etc..then obviously he’s not ready to venture down the road of self discovery and heal.

    Sexual addiction is NOT about sex...it’s about trauma. (My thoughts only and maybe I’m naive) The PAs are not bad people, they are hurt and traumatized, and some don’t even have the slightest idea of how deeply.

    Love to all of you..we’re all doing the best we can with the knowledge we have ...and when ya know better, ya do better.
     
  14. Steve_to_the_rescue

    Steve_to_the_rescue Fapstronaut

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    God, I love your insight. Thank you for putting it out so clearly. I couldn‘t agree more.

    One of the key reasons for ending up as a PA was the lack of physical closeness at home and the misplaced belief that as a man I need to be strong. As a teenage boy, how can you admit that you love chick flicks, that you can cry like a baby watching those films and admit in general that you are not fine, that you are hurting?

    Similar point: as a man you need to be able to “stand” your man, always be ready for sex, always be the hung guy. Not meeting those “social standards” was so much pressure on me (in addition to the general stress from work etc that everyone faces) that I resorted to P as a short-term fix, an easy diversion from the pain and misery I felt but I could not voice. It could have been alcohol instead of P, basically any addiction.

    As such, I can say that I love my wife and that she is the one for me. It is not about specific things she is lacking (hair colour, size, proportions, race ... whatever), but the carefree dopamine kick of the respective addiction. The way the PMO addiction then works into our brain, it reenforces the need for the kink or fetish or whatever one is into.
    Looking back now, many of those things I lusted after appear to be absurd to me - admittedly, there still is this voice in back of my mind, calling from time to time.

    So, I believe many of us addicts are fighting to cope with those social or cultural norms we cannot meet. Personal trauma have rendered us less effective in dealing with them in a better way.

    @Susannah - Don’t question yourself, it’s not you (yeah, you heard that before). I do not believe it is about your SO lacking something in you, but rather him being unable to express his hurt in a different way.

    @Lostneverland - thank you again for comments. They are a revelation to me and I still to have digest them fully
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  15. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

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    Very well said and unfortunately very correct. Thank you!
     
  16. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Strength lies in your ability to show your vulnerability. Brene Brown

    I believe if a man has the ability to be vulnerable, he has the ability to love deeply and passionately. It’s up to us women to support, encourage and guide them. To help them feel safe and secure while they explore their trauma wounds and go through the process of healing.
    If however the men don’t want to process the wounds or issues then other steps need to be taken by the women or spouses. It’s about balance. Seeing the essence of the people involved whether male or female. We ALL have the right to the full rainbow of emotions. SO’s are also deeply wounded people, it’s easy to cast blame, but seeing our part in the addiction is harder to see. It’s time for many of us to look within and do our own self exploration and growth.

    Just my opinion, but if emotional wounds were displayed as physical wounds I think we would all be bleeding to be loved, valued and cherished.
     
  17. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

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    I agree, at that point it would probably be death by a thousand cuts.
     
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  18. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    What makes the difference between those that turn to addiction as a coping mechanism and those that don't? I think everyone believes something about themselves that isnt true that society says should be different about them and many have had personal trauma.

    Sex and porn addiction now turns women into the victims of the very same thing men are seeking solace from...being told they should act or be something they are not - that this impossible fantasy person is the one they should strive to be. And yet we dont see the victims the PAs are making turning into addicts because of it. So I ask again...what is the difference that makes one an addict and one not?

    Please dont think I'm attacking you. I'm just wondering what your and other people's thoughts are on this idea.
     
  19. I LOVE your writing style OMG. If you write anything else, I'll be reading it.. Very poignant and bittersweet. I DO concur with your logic here, that you feel you were a compromise.

    I believe the mature choose pragmatically, and we should be grateful for their lofty ideal instead of their impulsive rationale.

    Head vs. Heart

    Head: reason, rational decisions, planning, execution, strategy.
    Heart: impulse, desire, feelings, gut

    Don't most of us make decisions all the time that are "pragmatic"?

    Men:
    You have a to buy a new car. You want a 2019 red, and white top convertible F-type Jaguar. But your wife and kids can't both fit your wife reminds you. You know to buy it will entail endless follow up conversations...So you go with the SUV instead and preserve a smidgen of man-dignity.​

    You are 18 and now have to go to college, you want to go to a top ivy-league, but your parents can only afford a public school. You opt for community college compromise, and transfer in the future.

    You decide its time to buy a house, you (male) want the house near the lake, but your wife wants to be close to shopping, school district and her family. You go for the midtown option to give in to her wants.​

    Woman:
    You have a family Gala planned and decide it's time to get a new outfit. You buy the outfit you suspect you will probably return in a couple days anyways. But buy it nevertheless--"just to make sure." 2 days later you return it and buy the other one that "should fit" provided you do the extra workout that you've been planning from forever ago. Both the new outfit and planned exercises will put you in a "winning" mode, and that's what you need anyway, right?

    You have 2 interviews, one at a job that appears to be the perfect fit with your career path, but the compensation appears to be less than that of your male counterpart; the other is slightly outside of your ideal career path, but pays better. You opt for the higher $$ offer because "I don't want to have to prove myself all over again." Pragmatic.

    Your daughter begs that she wants a pet. Of course she really wants a large dog. But you quickly deploy every parents' instinctive +1,000-year-old-defense: "who is going to clean up after it?" And with this universal rhetorical question, you have effortlessly limited the options of pets down to ensure minimal feces retrieval. You leave the pet store with a cuddly rabbit explaining, "sweetie, you can keep him in the cage until you're ready for a larger animal. Plus their poo looks like cute pellets." ​

    LOL. Okay...I don't know if any or all of these examples will help demonstrate that when we pick the "right choice" our hearts could care less about that.

    You appear to be remorseful that you were not "informed" about his inability to synchronize his head with his heart; but as I hope I have demonstrated, often times these two forces conflict. This conflict began with sin, and continues today only because our hearts go contrary to God. Human planning or evasive strategy has not been successful in preventing this conflict to date.

    The bible describes this conflict as the lust of the flesh, or the sins of the heart. May we choose according to our minds, and may we cry according to our hearts so that we balance both compassion, emotion, reason, and love.

    Blessings to you sis!
     
  20. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Eyes wide open...great point . What makes one person an alcoholic and another one not ?
    The world is filled with double standards . I
     

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