What would your SO have to do to get your attention?

As an addict , and one that doesn’t admit they are an addict, the only thing that I can think of would be getting thrown in a pot of boiling water, with a lid on top that I couldn’t jump out of. I think of this as the frog in boiling water. If you put him in while it is boiling he will just jump out. An addict will use lies and gaslighting to just jump out of the pot. We’ve Perfected these, and if it hurts we will just use some PMO to feel better afterwards, and just go back to the same behaviors. Likewise our addiction is much like how you would boil a frog, we put ourselves into some warm water by using PMO and it didn’t feel too bad. The water keeps getting hotter, we keep using more PMO, we get used to it and don’t see that we are dying. As a result we will happily sit there in that boiling water of addiction and cook ourselves to death.
Empathy cannot happen as we’re saturated with dopamine. There isn’t much room for any real emotions in this state. Our pursuit to act out and get another hit becomes selfish and single minded, we are controlled and ruled by the addiction. An addict is okay with the behaviors you describe, because they are living with it, they are indulging it, and through some twisted way justified it, so they are absolutely okay with it. In fact they would probably encourage that behavior from their partners in order to further justify acting out, they would welcome another excuse to continue their addict behaviors.
There are some that can see their behaviors and addiction for what it is and make better decisions to find a recover on their own. I don’t know how they did this, because I wasn’t one of them.
For me it required my wife to hold me down in the boiling pot I made for myself, and to not let me out unless the lies stopped, and the acting out stopped. She generously scooped me out when I was able to admit it, and asked for help. I’ve been sober since.

 

This is so true! I remember I was feeling very similarly to you @Susannah wondering why Jak didn't get it. I remember he actually encouraged me to cheat on him!! He didn't care, I was so confused. He didn't get it until he was sober, like it took a while. When they are in their addiction they don't have empathy and thus you can give every example but they will just shrug it off or be like, "cool."

What got my husband to leave the addiction behind was me finding Everything. Only when I knew Everything did he start to heal. He was terrified of me leaving, and I set boundaries and consequences and he followed them because he was so scared I would leave. But this was all after a year of him secretly trying to quit on his own. Had he never been trying I think he would have relapsed a lot along the way.

 

What they said. /\

disclosure,
divorce,
separation,
lie detector tests,
Child custody,
these things seem to get people’s attention
in my SAA meetings when people
begin to see the light.

Whether they act on recovery adequately
and whether their spouse can deal with,
accept their level of recovery
seems to be unique to each couple.

Some have stayed together.
Many have not.
At meetings we hear how
damned serious this business is.

Maybe the more the bubble of addiction is broken
And the more reality is clarified that tomorrow is not certain, that action can take place.

See the light or feel the heat.

 

I will share some of my story with you in response. Dday for my wife was in november of 2016. She found a text on my phone. I continued to act out until right before i entered counseling with the CSAT therapist that i still see. My original sobriety date was 12/23/16. The next time i acted out with porn was august the next year. 232 days hard mode. That 8 months was illuminating for me, but i was not expressing empathy. During my first relapse i moved out of the house. I slept in my parents house in the same room i grew up in. I had to face the very real possibility that i would be getting a divorce and that i would have limited access to our kids. Here is an excerpt of my journal entry the day after i moved out:

How did my life come to this? How did i think it was ok to do all of the things i have done? Im such a selfish addict. I want to just curl up and die. Nicki is freaking out im sure and i have no sympathy. I dont want to keep doing this, but ive gotten in so deep that im barely recognizable to myself.

People call this a disease
A sickness within me
But it is my choice of ease
Automated release

That was in september of 2017. I was actually reading it today because i wanted to see how it hits me now that i can handle the shame a bit better. The reason i share this with you is because it took this for me. I had to experience the real consequences of my actions. And even after choosing to give it my all in my relationship with my wife it has been a long and messy road to empathy. The honest answer to your question is what everyone on here has said. It is different for each addict. It takes a long time for us to get there and it seems that at first at least when there has been betrayal in relationship the journeys are separate until there has been enough growth to come back together and redifine what healthy is for the "us" instead of "me"

I hope that he comes around. For you and for him. Life is so much better with authentic relationship.

 

I think that it is important to remember that often people are addicts because of some sort of trauma and pain. In my case I was molested by a neighbor kid a couple of years older than me when I was really young, and that is what started me into PMO as a coping mechanism in my early teens. Another big trigger for me is facing rejection - my wife has a naturally low sex drive, and frequently turns me down when I try to initiate. When I am struggling with depression that can be quite painful, and has often in the past led to temptation to PMO.

Anyway, I guess I'm just trying to say that, for many PA, it would be hard to find something that would "wound [a PA] in the way that betrayal trauma wounds" because often they are already so saturated in a pain killing coping mechanism that they don't feel much if any emotional pain. It would be like trying to cause physical pain to somebody strung out on Opioids.

As for getting attention and empathy, I think that is a very individual thing. Rock bottom is necessary, but what it is varies from person to person.

 

Feel that line a lot these days.
Am so glad to have a program
to deal with it.

It’s a whole new way of living.

 

My wife sent me this video today that speaks to this a little bit. Rebooting in recovery is definitely more that just absaining from bad behavior.


https://rlforwomen.com/video/kitchen-convo-10-acting-in/