What's the plan if my partner's just not into sex?

Do you tend to her emotional needs, communicate well together, and spend quality time together? There are lots of factors that go into a woman being interested in sex. It usually goes hand-in-hand for them with love.

If your wife is stunted emotionally through abuse, it may be hard for her to engage in a healthy sex life with her husband. If she holds no respect for you as a man or as her husband (i.e. she's a modern feminist or something thereof), she may view you as an opponent or competition (or, worse, an inferior). And that's if she truly has no desire for sex in general; the alternative to that is that she's getting it elsewhere and is having an affair. In extreme cases, I know that some men have broken down and gotten a divorce because their wives emotionally neglected them so severely (which is actually a form of abuse) - but I never consider divorce as anything other than an extreme last resort and a worst-case scenario.

I do know that a healthy marriage has plenty of intimacy, fluid communication, and a selfless attitude on both ends - sex shouldn't be an issue in this case.

I feel for you, man. A lot of other guys would have been all, "Man, fuck her, I'm going to find a real woman." If you take the time to address the issues in your life and make yourself into the best possible husband you can be, you're doing the best thing.

Also, have you ever seen Kirk Cameron's Fireproof"? Even if you have, watch it when you get the chance. The dude went through a lot of the same issues for a variety of reasons; you might identify with a few. I would also recommend picking up "The Love Dare" which is a book and a 40-day sort of love "reboot" that is designed to break through the mess in your own life.

Keep me updated. As someone who's gone through a loveless marriage than ended in divorce, what you're going through matters to me especially. I went through the Love Dare and my wife basically threw it all back in my face, but in a willing spouse (mine was not), I've seen it do numbers. You'd have your answer either way, though.

Keep your chin up. NoFap is definitely an important step to becoming a better committed husband and a healthy sex partner. No matter what you do, stick with that.

 

Brendan, you're not alone. I am right there with you and yes it is frustrating.
Welland, thank you for your insight. Sorry your marriage ended. There is a wonderful woman out there for you.

 

His woman is right here.

But just like communication, a good sex life is important. You're joining two people and it gives them an opportunity to be close with each other. As a woman, I like the idea of being close to Weiland, my soon-to-be husband, and understanding his heart and his needs. I have to be understanding and open with him, and that includes in the bedroom. Some women either close off or just never put their husbands needs first; and selfishness in a marriage never works, you may work it out, but ideally you should start off with a selfless approach.

Love is a choice. You choose to love her everyday, and if you want to fight for this, I'd suggest you spend as much time as you can with her. Try and understand where she's coming from - even though, to me she sounds unreasonable - you know her better than any of us. She has to be just as willing to fight for this marriage as you are, and she needs to know how important this is to you.

I feel as though there's a stigma on men that they are only interested in sex - that's all they think about, or that's the most important thing to them. That mindset is completely wrong, even though sex is important to a man because it's a way that he feels close with his wife. When either sides needs are ignored then it becomes easy to think "Hey, I could do better", and it's easy to fall into the trap of finding a new "partner" and retaliating and I would hope you never found yourself going down that road.

This needs to be brought up to her, and she needs to understand that her needs are not the only needs.

Best of luck, I really hope you both the best.

 

Brendan, you and your wife have a 2 year old together. Your sex life will pick up again. It really will. If it was ever any good in the first place, and if you take good care of the relationship in the meantime, guaranteed, as soon as the youngest is school-aged it will start to get a lot better. Nature does this thing to women, keeps them from from turning out too many kids too fast. It will pass.

What you can do now is pour your energy into the work that needs to be done to raise your young family, and communicate, communicate, communicate with your wife. Make time for each other every day. Don't demand sex, but do explain your needs (hint hint). See to it that hers are being met too, so that she isn't turning away from you out of resentment and exhaustion. A tit-for-tat exchange of favors can work wonders if she's just not in the mood. If you still feel you just can't connect, contrive a way to spend more time together away from house and daily responsibilities. If you can't even get along well on a date night, go to counseling together.

To be brutally honest, during this season of life, the best you can do is push through and keep your marriage going so that you'll have the opportunity to fully enjoy it later. Not many people talk about it, but when kids are small those are the very hardest years for husband-and-wife time. If you make it through this without doing lasting damage to the relationship, you can start a virtuous cycle that leads you both to do more and more for each other as your free time gradually expands (which it will). Hang in there.

 

I agree with e5s, with one condition (from personal experience): If a wife has no interest in her husband whatsoever, especially sexually, even if he is endeavoring to work hard on his marriage, then beware. Especially if she keeps secrets, disappears for days, or keeps you at arms length. It's very possible that she's getting what she needs from someone else, which is doubly possible if she's given up on her relationship. It's a selfish possibility, but I've seen it happen and had it happen myself. Just keep your eyes open.

 

I can recommend a few resources that in my experience would help directly.

First, there are three very important books that have specifically helped me with my marriage and my relationships, and I suggest you invest in all of them. One is The Five Love Languages, which talks about the five broad methods that we give and receive love, and how mismatched love languages can make giving and receiving love difficult. The other one is His Needs, Her Needs, which talks about ten different needs that go into a healthy relationship - split in two common groups for each spouse. Third, there's Love and Respect, which goes into the cyclical thing that you mentioned; how a respect and love build off of each other (or the lack thereof).

Grab those resources and dig into them. Not casually, but really dig into them.

And second, while you're doing that, get a copy of Fireproof (honestly, I'd recommend any movie from Sherwood, their stuff is really inspiring). Fireproof specifically deals with a broken marriage on the cusp of divorce and deals with a lot of real issues that men and women both deal with in the middle of it. I'm sure you'll identify with a lot of it. And hand-in-hand with that, pick up a copy of The Love Dare, which is incidentally shown in action in the movie.

Regarding the Love Dare specifically: my experience was both powerful and tragic. I went through the Dare with a spouse that was 100% unresponsive and distant. I still learned much and became a much better husband, and I know if there had been any chance of reaching her, then this would have been an excellent step. As showcased in Fireproof, it doesn't necessarily have instant results and the reaction of your spouse may vary between happiness and hostility, but by the end of the 40th day of the dare - and beyond - it shows its great potency.

Pick up those resources. Not directly regarding your marriage, I'd recommend looking into Ransomed Heart ministries. Eldridge and his wife put out two fantastic books - Wild at Heart and Captivating for men and women, respectively - and there are lots of resources and articles there which play a big role in bringing life to the deadened hearts of men and women, namely those that are drained from the society and culture of today.

 

Brendan, I think you're getting good advice from Weiland, though I haven't read these particular books. I want to add that the best way to use them is for you and your wife to read them together, literally together, out loud to each other if possible, and discuss.

My husband and I did this some years ago during a rough patch involving workaholism, drugs, small kids and "food insecurity" as they call it these days (aka the adults were hungry, and no, not because of the drugs, bulk amps are cheap). Anyway, I think we used one of the Mars/Venus titles and a "7 Habits" book, whatever was in the library, and we came out on the other side.

Reading marriage-building books aloud to each other is a valuable exercise because it's a shared experience outside of the daily grind (so precious!), and it gets you coming together for 20+ minutes a day, saying with action, "I'm willing to work for this relationship. This is important. You are important."

Above all, (and this goes both ways) value your partner's perspective more highly than any rule-of-thumb in a book. These authors know a lot about relationships in general, but they don't know how to stay happily married to you! Switch to a different title if the first one doesn't click, but always keep your date with each other. Be open to wasting time. If all goes well, after a few weeks or months you'll maybe skip the scheduled feelings talk and go straight to the after-party, making love. Staying connected emotionally can return to being a spontaneous thing, but there's no end to maintaining the habit of hearing each other.

Also, I'd like to make a movie recommendation: Mom and Dad Save the World. Best thing for a stay-at-home evening. Safe for watching in front of kids.

 

I think the Love Dare is more of a private thing, actually. It's something you should definitely keep to yourself, otherwise it loses some of its impact. Once you learn what it is, it'll make perfect sense.

As far as the rest, well, reading material together is definitely a relationship-building experience, but I've always believed that you've definitely got to build your own foundation before you can invest in someone else. In a relationship that's well-balanced and built up, sure, read them together. In this situation, it seems like things are a bit on edge. I think I'd recommend reading them alone at first, and perhaps offering them to your spouse afterwards. In some cases, like with Wild at Heart and Captivating, one is geared towards the man and woman respectively, but there's no reason the other spouse can't read through them to get some interesting insight into their significant other.

These books are designed to get to the heart of what makes you tick - love languages, needs and desires, personality, drive, hard-wired design qualities. They're not light fluff; give them the right amount of time and investment and you'll see the principles that may well not only change your marriage, but your life. There have been only a handful of books that have taught me principles to change my life, and these are a few of them.

The Love Dare specifically is geared towards teaching about love and restoring a broken or damaged marriage, but obviously depending on where you are and what shape your relationship is in, certain steps and situations may vary. The lessons remain the same, however; if I could garner intrinsic value in the book even though my wife at the time was a hundred miles away and refused contact with me, then you have plenty to learn from it as well.

The Five Love Languages teach about how we communicate love to each other. The principle is that we all experience or exhibit love in certain ways (things like physical touch or words of affirmation), and what might be loving to us (an "I love you" or a hug) might be unimportant to an other (say, if she just really needs you to spend some quality time with her). Learning to interpret each others' language, read their signals, become "multi-lingual", and be able to fill each others' love tanks will bring new life to your marriage. This one is definitely a good choice to read together.

His Needs, Her Needs is also good for couples to read. It details ten individual needs that men and women have and gives stories and examples of real-life couples that have gone through both neglect and fulfillment of these needs. The subtitle, "How to Affair-Proof Your Marriage", is no mistake here, because failing to meet some of these needs (they vary for some of us, but we all have some of them in common) opens up a vulnerability that may cause damage and destruction in our marriages when we least expect it.

Love and Respect tells about the difference between men and women in a new regard. The idea is that men crave respect above all else and need to be respected by their wives, whereas women need love to feel secure and content. A cycle is laid out in that loving husbands garner respect from their wives, and respectful wives draw love from their husbands; conversely, disrespectful wives produce unloving behavior in their husbands and unloving husbands reap disrespect from their wives. Another good read for couples.

Fireproof, definitely watch that together. No doubt about it.

The Eldridge books, Wild at Heart and Captivating, can be both read individually. I would actually not recommend reading these books out-loud - at least not until you've each had a chance to really dig into your own versions alone. Whereas there are couple-based lessons to be learned in the other books I've mentioned, Wild at Heart teaches about what really drives the identity of men and Captivating does the same for women. These are lessons that should be learned individually first. I treated my Wild at Heart copy like a mentor that was spiriting me away to show me what my identity and importance as a man was all about; it didn't make much sense at the time to include anyone else, much less my spouse. Eventually, your spouse can read your book if she wants some insight into you, but these are just more individualized books.

You'll have realized after reviewing some of these that they come from a faith-based perspective. This is not by accident, as God is considered to be an important tenant in healthy relationship, healthy identity, and healthy sexuality. Even if you don't subscribe to any particular beliefs, though, I guarantee the lessons will resonate with you and your wife; they're powerful in and of themselves and have a track record of impacting relationships from all walks of life.

 

Weiland, is this an accurate summary of The Love Dare? http://www.shenzhoufellowship.org/main2/files/old/SpecialTopics/TheLoveDare.pdf

If so, I see some possible dangers in reading it alone, not least of which, you'll confuse your spouse. Personal growth is a beautiful and important thing, but if the goal is to improve a marriage, you absolutely must invite your spouse along, otherwise the likely result is growing apart. I'm just saying this from my own experience in a long-term relationship. A lot of people say you have to build yourself up before you can give to another person, but I know it can work just as well if two people fix up and forgive each other. Of course, it takes two to be committed to that process, but it doesn't take two complete, perfected people. Just two willing to try.

As the saying goes, "If you want to get there soon, go now. If you want to get there at all, go together."

 

That is a brief summary of the Dare, but yes, that's the gist of it.

Honestly, I still think you're confusing the purpose of it. It's not a book that designed for couples to read through. It's designed for one person to endeavor to love their spouse more. Each of these steps is designed to for one person to internalize and then pursue. If the other spouse knows about the book, the Dare, or the steps, then he/she feels either 1) obligated to respond a certain way or 2) may see it merely as a "stunt" of some sort. Neither is desirable. The Love Dare has to be a personal experience first and foremost. It doesn't need to be "hidden" after the fact, but it's a lot like buying someone a gift for their birthday: having them buy it and wrap it with you ruins something.

That's why I'd recommend taking example from the movie, Fireproof. The main character's marriage is estranged, and I know from personal experience that in a marriage where there's not a lot of respect or love left (a lot of them, sadly), anything can be used against a spouse. In the movie, his efforts were basically rejected and ignored until almost the end. If she'd known he was initially operating off a script (and in order to understand "initially", then, well, you've got to watch the movie), then she would have shut him down on principle.

For so many reasons, this is best done covertly, at least for as long as possible.

In summary, it's not even desirable for the wife to know about the contents of the book, because she'll know what's coming and expect to act accordingly. The impact will lessen significantly. In the best case scenario, there isn't much need for the Love Dare in the first place; in the worst scenario, such as a rough marriage, it'll become a point of contention and possibly a weapon of ridicule.

I recognize your desire to promote oneness and unity among couples, e5s. I do, I really do! I feel the same way, and there are plenty of avenues to approach that. However, as anyone who has taken the Love Dare will tell you, it's not something you share until it's all said and done. A savvy spouse will pick up on it, perhaps, but it has to be a personal endeavor - one that greatly impacts both people.

I hope I have helped you understand.

As a side note, I'm curious as to what dangers you saw, or how you thought the spouse might be theoretically confused? If I can address your concerns, I would like to do so.

 

I understand your concerns of having your partner involved. Yet, at the same time you have to realize this book is meant for broken relationships, and if your partner has set their mind up already and isn't willing to fight for you, then they aren't going to fight for you with this book. It's important to read it alone and work on you for them, or, just work on you for when you are able to be in a relationship if it takes the wrong turn and it doesn't work out.

Do other things to try and involve your spouse, involve them in things you like to do. But this book specifically should be read by you.

 

Alright, to be honest, I did lump the book in with others of its genre, most of which are "intended" to be read by one person, despite the fact that when one half of a pair is making a solitary effort to salvage a relationship, things have usually passed the point of being fixable at all.

Point about the OP - I assume that Brendan is dealing with a temporarily sexless, but not loveless relationship like the one you experienced, Weiland. Why? Because it would be an unspeakably horrible idea to bring a second child into a loveless relationship, and he mentioned efforts to get pregnant. Also, apples and oranges, you brought up cheating pretty quick. I may be naive, but I think ordinary people only engage in affairs (extended cheating, not blind drunk indiscretions) when they've already decided that the relationship is over, and they just haven't worked up the guts to break the news yet. Or maybe they're evil and taking advantage of a meal ticket. In any case, it's not a relationship anymore, it's a farce. At that point, addressing a dull sex life would be like putting garnish on a plateful of turds. I hope that's not too much to say.

Back to books - I do think there are good things to be found in the self-help aisle, but much of what I've encountered is a lot of common sense mixed liberally with questionable advice, and even when the stuff is Christian in origin (or branding), you still have to separate the wheat from the chaff. Best to do that with a partner. If you come to different opinions, best to get that in the open. I've seen people who get so caught up in a self-help book's "system" that they put more stock in it than the input from their own senses. This should be avoided when you're trying to connect with another person.

It really does take two to tango. I do think, if you don't feel safe enough in the relationship to share what's really going on inside your head, that's a bad sign. Maybe there's good reason to hold back. On the other hand, I may be a special case, having a PTSD-type sniffer for deception (adaptive when surprises can kill you, not so much later on). My husband has a little of that going on too. We actually don't do surprise presents, and nothing of value is lost, I think. We have plenty of trust too, and privacy in matters not pertaining to the relationship, but to engage in a project like The Love Dare without sharing is unimaginable. The habit of bare honesty has made intimacy possible. Why on earth would you leave it out of recovery?

So I guess my husband and I used self-help books as props in getting things back on course. (Reading aloud to each other was natural, because it was something we did daily as newlyweds, with novels and things. LOL. Nerd love.) Some of the points we mocked together. Some we debated. We both came in with a smattering of education in psychobabble, and we recognize intellectual parlor tricks when we see them. It was fun, and a whole lot better than going off the rails or giving up. Even so... knowing how doctors practice their craft is not the same as recognizing one's own illness. We had some pretty serious problems, and I guess it took years for the ripple effects to smooth out, but I've never wavered in my commitment to him at a time when I wasn't also weighing the pros and cons of suicide, as if it were a legit solution. So. The organ that's sick can't diagnose itself. That's another reason not to seclude oneself when puzzling out how to reach one's partner.

As to specific hazards in The Love Dare, I could pick on several different issues to take with it from the summary alone, but I'm running short on sleep time, and I don't want to quibble over something that could be genuinely helpful to someone. If you really want my opinion, later. I'm not here to flame though.

 

You should focus on building a loving relationship with her. There are couples nowadays who divorce because of a poor sex life and I find that lame. Love is SO much more than sex. Think more about how you can love her better because love itself is a much greater fulfillment and sex is really not that important when 2 people truly love each other. And let me tell you - love is not a whim or a fancy. Love is a will.

 

It isn't that far fetched to assume an affair, especially in a loveless relationship it is possible she could be with another person. Once you lose the love, it tends to end in that person searching for love elsewhere. It's also fair being that he's been through it, to give out a warning that it may be the case. I don't know the woman, and only Brendan knows her personally; I couldn't say for certain that she has any problems with him, but ignoring your partner is pretty dangerous. Men and women have different ways of expressing their affection for each other, and if that's ignored then it seems like there could be a problem there.

Like hopepeacelove said, a relationship is more than sex. Sex is a plus, a wonderful plus that shouldn't be ignored. But little things like conversation, walking with each other, or just enjoying each other's company is also important and shouldn't be ignored. It's about getting to know and understand the other person's needs and heart. This is hurting him, and I do think this book could help. I would certainly trust a book surrounded by God that has had results, and those results from hard determination and not giving up on each other.

 

A small note regarding sex: A lack of a healthy, involved sex life isn't a root problem in a marriage, but I often find that it's definitely a symptom of bigger, sometimes much more destructive underlying issues. Stereotypically, men are seen as "sex-hounds", but that's not so much the case here. If there's no interest in sex, something is broken. Possibly, something very serious.

 

Please!
Look, men and women are different. If a man is sick, tired, achy, and horny, he'll take sex before sleep. A woman in the same situation? Oh, wait, doesn't happen.
It doesn't take a great deal of broken to throw things off. Child care, elder care and stress throw off hormone levels, leaving the libido even more fragile, a situation that requires sustained effort to overcome.
I'm not sure how a grown adult would not know this. But ask any guy who's had the privilege to raise his own kids. A good 3/10 manage it in these chaotic times.

 

Listen, it's much deeper than just sex, lady. Men and women are different and those can certainly be a contribution, but there needs to be understanding into what the partner needs. If she needs rest, lest her rest. But the same goes for what the husband needs. Women are emotional but that shouldn't mean that everything they do or how they react should strictly be based of their emotions - it's about self-control. And yes, it does take effort. And yes. It will be hard. But I think the effort is worth it if it means being closer with your spouse, coming from a woman I'd much rather be able to control myself than to drive Weiland away.

 

Yes, good Nageroma. So make the effort! And after you've had some years of experience caring for multiple loved ones at once, a few of whom can't wipe their own butts yet, while you're also contributing as needed to keep the household solvent, then come back and explain how you made sure everyone went to bed satisfied each night.