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A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion
I'm a Christian, because it is the only belief system (including various kinds of atheism) that really makes sense, that explains the existence of beautiful flowers, complex cells and evil paedophiles as well.
And because it is the only "religion" which allows testing it. The core of Christianity is a relationship between me and my creator, a thing which is very real and experience-able.
@UKGeezer, I have no problem explaining how there can be evil people raping their own children to death, when an omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient (I love Latin) God exists. You see, if God is omnibenevolent, he surely won't want to have mindless slaves, but rather free-willed people, who follow his commands out of love. But to have real love you need free will and the possibility to decide otherwise. So God made us with free will and the ability to decide to ignore his good advice and do whatever we want. This is what we call sin. We humans stupidly did (and still do) exactly this: we think we know better than God and sin against his will. And if you're honest, you have to admit that it's just circumstance that saved you or me, for that matter, from being as evil as the rapist you described. We are not as deep into this addiction, we have, maybe, had a better upbringing, I myself don't have a daughter whom I could rape, etc.
You see, if God did actually punish sin as soon as it occurs, you and I and every one else would have died long ago. It's actually Grace that we are spared.
Now my next point is not to you, but I've seen the point mentioned a few times on this thread: the existence of hell and heaven.
Heaven and Hell are core Christian and, what is more important, Biblical doctrine, but many people object to the idea of eternal punishment. They think it unworthy of an all-good God to punish anyone for time without end.
Well, here's my take on an explanation: Eternity is not an unending stretch of time, but, as the early Christian philospher Boethius put it:
"Eternity is the whole, perfect, and simultaneous possession of endless life." It is about existence outside of time, a kind of living all in one 'moment', although moment is time language and therefore misleading. Now if you, during life on earth, insist of having your life your way and not give it up to God, he will, in his goodness, give it to you. The terrible thing about this is that only he knows what is good for you. So if you think about an eternity where you are alone with yourself, your choices, your deeds, and you don't think this existence is hell, you surely don't know yourself.
To paraphrase the great C.S. Lewis: "In the end there are only two kinds of people, those who say to God 'Thy will be done' and those to whom God says 'Thy will be done'."
I hope this could clear up some points.
Absolute nonsense. I'm hard on you because you're not a scientist as you claimed - well, perhaps a gender studies "scientist". Don't lie and I won't be nasty.
There are different camps in evolutionary biology but none of them claim to be a Genesis. The existence of LUCA - last universal common ancestor (or Adam and Eve if you will) 4B years ago is a hypothesis. DNA evidence fits it but that doesn't mean it's true and nobody ever said otherwise. Let alone thinking about how the LUCA even got to be on this planet: no sane evolutionary biologist will claim to know that - meanwhile people who're much, much less knowledgeable, will. The arrogance is really something else.
No need to lecture me on evolution being just a theory. Everything happening inside our brains is just a theory. Religion is a theory as well.
There really is no "law of cause and effect" - that's just a heuristic - and how was evolution supposed to violate it? I'm lost. Big bang singularity might violate this intuition of ours (but remember, it doesn't matter because our intuition tends to be very wrong) or it might not. Why? The Universe might actually have 0 total energy. Also, asking what was before the Big Bang doesn't even make sense given Einstein's model:
Also, Big Bang doesn't necessarily mean the singularity. It's just the fact that our universe got to this point via expansion from some hot and dense state.
Mona Lisa and billions of buckets of paint is actually not a bad analogy. I've heard it as a Shakespeare sonnet and billions of monkeys on typewriters. It's really mind-boggling that we're here but not impossible either (obviously).
The funny thing is that evolution nor big bang imply there is no deity. Those who say so have been indoctrinated by a church desperate to keep its control over people's minds. Sadly, you seem to be a victim of that. Every time you hear something which reinforces your belief, you feel happy:
I'm not trying to be inflammatory. The only thing I ask for is honesty. I personally know a PhD physicist who is a devout Catholic. He would never say that he arrived at his position through scientific method. "It's just my faith," he'll say and go about his day. I'd advise you to do likewise.
Personally I am a thiest. I don’t really give a shit if you are a atheist or not. I have a few athiest friends myself. Only a few though. Most athiest I meat I find arrogant, unfriendly and beyond insufferable. Can’t go anywhere out in public without one of them bitching about a billboard of Jesus, some church, or one ranting on about the impossibility of camels being ridden in biblical times.
One thing I will point out is that I find it strange when someone says “I don’t see how anyone can believe in a heaven or hell in these days”. They seem to have this internal belief that living in the 21st century now entitles then with a sense of enlightenment above religion for no other reason but it’s the 21st century. Some people look at the 21st century as a period of scientific breakthroughs and discovery. The unknown will forever and always be vastly more infinite to that of the known. Anyone with half brain can look out their bedroom window and see how “enlightened” the 21st century really his. I am not much of a bible nut but somewhere in there it states there is nothing new under sun.
There really is nothing new under sun. Yes our understanding of the universe has improved but no where near to a degree of complete understanding. That is fantasy.
There's no point in arguing with you...i dont know if you're expecting me to be Steve Hawking before I should be called a scientist. Anyway, that's your problem. Rather than living in "what ifs" and "maybes" or "I don't knows", I'm gonna side with the existence of a Creator. Nature has revealed his existence. All the physical laws and the arrangements of the constellations reveal an intelligent hand in things... This is my view, this is my opinion.. Calling me a liar is just uncalled for and immature. I may not agree with your view, but I certainly respect it, and Ive never called you a liar for it. Somehow, I know that science would finally admit that there's a God,(believe it or not) and I know a lot of people have misguided beliefs about him, but I'm certain he's not like religions today portray him. There was nothing in the universe, and all of a sudden, something happened...Life... Why?
How can something come out of nothing? Life can only come from preexisting life...and if you doubt that, that's still your business anyway. Maybe you're probably a victim of being blinded from seeing the obvious...but again, that's your business...Most humans don't know the truth about the Creator...portraying him as a sadistic personality who loves watching people roast for eternity, or being part of an incomprehensible trinity and all that. I would stand by the truth and always will, even if it's an unpopular one and if it bothers you, that's still your business.
I believe that reality is far stranger than anything our human minds will ever really grasp, yet somehow this same reality is the one our divine hearts contain within them as the mystery of eternity.
I see the stars and wonder how I am made from the same fabric that looks up at myself shining down on me.
Time...space...words...letters...the emptiness between then and now and here and there.
God, I know you are watching. Wow. What a wonderful world you made for me.
That's what I believe, beyond ALL these unfathomable things, is that all these unfathomable things are here and happening because it was arranged by Him for me with a love that the whole universe and all reality cannot contain.
A bit defensive, aren't you?
It's obvious from your use of language and the way you argue that you're not an academic writer. You chose to pretend that you are in order to gain credibility. Not much else to say there.
It's not why, it's how. And the answer is unresolved, yet. I wonder how do you know that "life can only come from preexisting life". Scientists disagree but apparently you know better.
I bothered to write in my previous post about it. I give you the courtesy of reading what you write and it would be nice if you reciprocated.
I'm glad you acknowledged it. But please refrain from describing your assertions as 'truth'. Thanks.
Hmmm..... truth is stranger than fiction
Isn't that the truth?
It's part of why I LOVE fiction. When I seem to get so stuck in a 'normal' version of reality, I can pick up a wonderfully strange book and be reminded that there are things beyond me. And from there, I can dust off my adventure gear and go off searching again for this truth that is beyond anything and everything
I think that biggest mystery of this entire universe is god himself
God is a mystery so profound that even those who don't believe in God spend their entire lives arguing against in ways to try and figure out how God does not exist.
They just can't put the mystery down, even if they 100% disagree with it for even existing.
Hahaha, you are seriously arguing that it would have been morally remiss of your God not to give us the ability to rape and torture one another. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and think that most right minded people would rather he'd given us the ability to fly or something.
He's omniscient and all powerful but he couldn't come up with a universe in which we can exercise our free will without inflicting massive suffering on one another. Or maybe just create a world in which free will didn't exist for us to be aware of in the first place, so we wouldn't miss anything. He couldn't come up with a design for nature that isn't fundamentally contingent on pain and ruthless competition.
Although I believe in God
But it disturbs me why he has made world like this
Full of sorrows
Yep...how can Love allow evil & hate to exist?
I love those kinds of questions. The tougher they are, the better and more profound the answers.
Love is accepting and understanding, it is giving.. not controlling.. I've been struggling with the concept of losing everything and everyone close to you, and yourself. But maybe that's just the nature of reality and the grand illusion of 'you' and not simply God's doing or will. I cannot comprehend the pain and suffering some people are dealt in this life, but maybe the blessing in that is that life is temporary.
Pretend? Who said anything about pretending? Does one have to be an academic writer before one voices his opinions? Don't we all think that what we believe in is the truth, even though there's a chance it could really be false? Anyway, I don't need to bother myself with you. Belittling what I say doesn't make you right anyway, I hope you know.
YOU said you're a scientist, not me. You lied and got caught. Kindly put away that barrel of red herrings and don't prolong this silly exchange.
What's your definition of a scientist, since you're making such a fuss about it ?
*rings a huge and loud cowbell* excuse me, pardon me, shouldnt this thread be moved to the interreligious sectionnnnnnnn
Is there an interreligious section ? Wow i didnt know, I know one group for that...