When is PMO an addiction?

[Mara Diamond Lily]

How to know if this behavior is a bad habit, a compulsive behavior or an addiction? Is problematic P or MO equal to addiction? In what circumstances can someone be considered an addict?

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

How to know if this behavior is a bad habit, a compulsive behavior or an addiction? Is problematic P or MO equal to addiction? In what circumstances can someone be considered an addict?

Does the behavior hurt you?
Does the behavior escalate? This can be content or amount of use.
Is the behavior against your moral beliefs?
Does the behavior hurt people you care about? Do you hide the behavior?
Have you tried to quit and been unable to?
How I knew my husband was an addict, I asked him to stop pmo, he would promise to but would not, just got better at hiding, In spite of knowing he was going to lose his wife and family.
He said he wanted to stop but didn’t/couldn’t. His use is escalated.
When he started recovery he literally changed his life and he started to become a different person. He is completely different when he’s clean than when he’s using. He went through withdrawals when he quit. If I had any doubts about pmo being an addiction, watching him fight through withdrawals definitely made me a believer. He started working recovery 4 plus years ago, he’s a little over 2 years clean and in recovery at this point.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

Thanks for answering

Does the behavior hurt you?

Yes

Does the behavior escalate? This can be content or amount of use.

Or doing things I didn't think I'd do? Yes...

Is the behavior against your moral beliefs?

Yes

Does the behavior hurt people you care about?

I don't think so

Do you hide the behavior?

Yes

Have you tried to quit and been unable to?

Yes...

He went through withdrawals when he quit. If I had any doubts about pmo being an addiction, watching him fight through withdrawals definitely made me a believer

This is what makes me to doubt about my situation, I never have had withdrawal syndrome. I've been P/MO free during months or even a whole year and there is no withdrawal symtoms.
Idk what to think

he’s a little over 2 years clean and in recovery at this point.

I'm glad for him, you and your family

 

[F14]

For me I named my P usage an addiction once I realize how bad it was but wouldn’t/couldn’t stop. So for me it started off with Femdom, the escalated to feminization, and was starting to escalate beyond that. Much of what I was normalizing was against my beliefs and values and even disgusted me in my moments of normal minded clarity. Even so I realized these things were bad at least a year ago but struggled (and still do) not to continue consuming them. That is how I came to grips with and started to label my struggles as an addiction. May the Lord give me strength to overcome this evil.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Thanks for answering Yes
Or doing things I didn't think I'd do? Yes...
Yes
I don't think so
Yes
Yes...

This is what makes me to doubt about my situation, I never have had withdrawal syndrome. I've been P/MO free during months or even a whole year and there is no withdrawal symtoms.
Idk what to think

I'm glad for him, you and your family

It took 4 months before he had withdrawals which HE did not recognize as withdrawals. I told him that’s what was happening. He had no idea. He also believed he was not hurting anyone. Now, if your addiction is in the early phases, you might not have withdrawals, you might be able to go months without, my husband went 4 years without and had no withdrawals ( this was early in his addiction) he did not even get pied until he was 45 years old. The fact that you have to even ask is a huge red flag. Then the fact you question because only one part of the equation is missing is another red flag. Just stop. If it’s not an addiction, just stop. There are far better things to do with your life and this does not add to it. I don’t drink. I’m not an alcoholic. But why risk it? Have I had alcohol? Yes. But it adds nothing to my life except empty calories, so I don’t drink.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

and even disgusted me in my moments of normal minded clarity.

Me too...

May the Lord give me strength to overcome this evil.

Amen

It took 4 months before he had withdrawals which HE did not recognize as withdrawals. I told him that’s what was happening. He had no idea

What did he feel or do during withdrawals?

The fact that you have to even ask is a huge red flag. Then the fact you question because only one part of the equation is missing is another red flag.

Why? I want to understand

I started seeing P seven months ago, when I had the strong urge to do that and I gave in. I did it only 2 or 3 times
But only during my last relapse early this month P increased its intensity and frequency and this worried me

My main problem has been and is M. I've been trying to quit since I was almost 13 y/o. 30 years struggling with this. At first I did it several times each month, it was over time I was able to stay free longer.

Are vice and addiction the same thing?
Addiction is a very hard word. It scares me. All this is too hard!
Am I in denial or something like that?

I only want to know the truth

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Me too...
Amen
What did he feel or do during withdrawals?
Why? I want to understand

I started seeing P seven months ago, when I had the strong urge to do that and I gave in. I did it only 2 or 3 times
But only during my last relapse early this month P increased its intensity and frequency and this worried me

My main problem has been and is M. I've been trying to quit since I was almost 13 y/o. 30 years struggling with this. At first I did it several times each month, it was over time I was able to stay free longer.

Addiction is a very hard word. It scares me. All this is too hard!
Am I in denial or something like that?

I only want to know the truth

He was very irritable, angry, couldn’t sleep, agitated, couldn’t focus. He was anxious, depressed, moody. He started eating like crap! Worse than usual. He was like being around a smoker who is quitting ( if you’ve ever been around someone quitting smoking that’s what he reminded me of). It leveled out. It’s been a while so those are just the things I really remember.

if you have to ask, then it’s indicative of a problem in your life. If it’s something you don’t want to do but you keep coming back to it, then there’s a good chance it’s an addiction. Add to that, it’s against your values?
Cancer is a scary word but you wouldn’t ignore it ( hopefully).
The biggest hurdle for many addicts is just admitting it’s an addiction! Once you get past that, then you take steps to rid it from your life. My husband and I had no idea pmo could even be an addiction. But, the minute I learned I told my husband and we both knew, no doubt, he was an addict. Neither one of us was happy with that, but at least we now had the information to help fix the problem. You can’t fix what you don’t know or acknowledge. Once you know better, do better. Join 12 step groups, get therapy, get accountability partners, get rid of your devices or lock down your internet. Change jobs if need be ( my husband retired early at 52). My friend quit her job( career) and started brand new at 40. You do what it takes if you really want to get into recovery. Problem is it’s very hard and requires a lot of uncomfortable feelings, requires a lot of work, and complete transparency ( no more hiding what you’re doing).shame you in the cycle. Very few actually take the action needed. Have you seen the backwards bicycle? It will give a good idea what you’re up against in terms of how you have trained your brain.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

if you have to ask, then it’s indicative of a problem in your life.

Well, I've always recognized I've a problem. Only I called it vice instead of addiction...

If it’s something you don’t want to do but you keep coming back to it, then there’s a good chance it’s an addiction. Add to that, it’s against your values?

Yes

Join 12 step groups, get therapy, get accountability partners, get rid of your devices or lock down your internet.

I've already found an AP several days ago

I am willing to do what is necessary

Have you seen the backwards bicycle? It will give a good idea what you’re up against in terms of how you have trained your brain.

No, I've not seen it. I'll search about

Thank you

 

[Ūruz]

How to know if this behavior is a bad habit, a compulsive behavior or an addiction? Is problematic P or MO equal to addiction? In what circumstances can someone be considered an addict?

The addiction is defined by lack of control: if you want to stop but can't, then it is an addiction. That's the definition of addiction—inability to stop. If you can quit today, not think about it and never compulsively lose control again, then it means you never had lack of control and therefore were never addicted.

Just simply because you watch porn does not mean that you are addicted to it; people practice vices of all kinds simply cause they are fun for them, but they can quit at any time if they want to. For example I sometimes drink and gamble, but then I can go for however long I want without even thinking about it, or choose not to if I there is an opportunity but I don't feel like it, so it's not an addiction, it's just a vice I enjoy for fun. I would argue there is nothing wrong with enjoying a vice once in a while, as long as it doesn't go against your moral values. But with porn I can't stop when I want to stop, and I think of it all the time when I am abstaining, so it is an addiction.

But don't get it twisted, simply cause I say that enjoying a vice once in a while is not necessary bad, that doesn't mean that porn, or any other vice, is harmless. Alcohol in excess is harmful to the liver, gambling in excess is harmful to your finances, and porn is excess does a lot of damage to your brain and nervous system (YourBrainOnPorn.com is a good website if you want to start learning more bout the science of it). It's all about how much you use it, and that's when ability to control comes in again. And all vices are addictive by nature, even if you are not addicted now you might be in the future. That's the definition of the vice—a pleasurable thing that is harmful in excess and potentially addictive.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

Thanks for your answer, @Ūruz. It gave me the idea to check definitions of both vice an addiction.
---------------------

Vice:

"A vice is a practice, behaviour, or habit generally considered immoral, sinful, criminal, rude, taboo, depraved, degrading, deviant or perverted in the associated society. In more minor usage, vice can refer to a fault, a negative character trait, a defect, an infirmity, or a bad or unhealthy habit."​

Usually an habit is not easy to change anyway...

Addiction:

"Addiction is a neuropsychological symptom defining pervasive and intense urge to engage in maladaptive behaviors providing immediate sensory rewards despite their harmful consequences."
" Ultimately, addiction is about the complex struggle between acting on impulse and resisting that impulse"​

This one killed me:

"An important distinction between drug addiction and dependence is that drug dependence is a disorder in which cessation of drug use results in an unpleasant state of withdrawal, which can lead to further drug use. Addiction is the compulsive use of a substance or performance of a behavior that is independent of withdrawal."​

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/addiction

Emphasis is mine

Symptoms of Addiction
Recurrent use of a substance, or engagement with an activity, that leads to impairment or distress, is the core of addictive disorders. The clinical diagnosis of an addiction is based on the presence of at least two of a number of features:

• The substance or activity is used in larger amounts or for a longer period of time than was intended.
• There is a desire to cut down on use or unsuccessful efforts to do so.
• Pursuit of the substance or activity, or recovery from its use, consumes a significant amount of time.
• There is a craving or strong desire to use the substance or engage in the activity.
• Use of the substance or activity disrupts obligations at work, school, or home.
• Use of the substance or activity continues despite the social or interpersonal problems it causes.
• Participation in important social, work, or recreational activities drops or stops.
• Use occurs in situations where it is physically risky.
• Use continues despite knowing it is causing or exacerbating physical or psychological problems.
• Tolerance occurs, indicated either by need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve the desired effect or markedly diminished effect of the same amount of substance.
• Withdrawal occurs, manifest either in the presence of physiological withdrawal symptoms or the taking of a related substance to block them.

The severity of the condition is gauged by the number of symptoms present. The presence of two to three symptoms generally indicates a mild condition; four to five symptoms indicate a moderate disorder. When six or more symptoms are present, the condition is considered severe
---------

OK, I accept it, I am an addict.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

OK, I accept it, I am an addict.

I accepted it in that moment but I'm really still struggling with this. I don't finish to assimilate it. I read again the features of addiction and still have doubts! This is very hard...

 

[born3]

I accepted it in that moment but I'm really still struggling with this. I don't finish to assimilate it. I read again the features of addiction and still have doubts! This is very hard...

It can be a struggle. I think the fact that you accepted it before shows that you probably are an addict. The question I will ask ..does it make a difference to your approach to how you are going to deal with this? like if it is just a vice rather than an addiction, will you be doing something different?

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

I think the fact that you accepted it before shows that you probably are an addict.

I accepted it beacuse after reading I ran out of arguments...

if it is just a vice rather than an addiction, will you be doing something different?

If I really have an addiction I'd put more attention to the dopamine thing. It's very little what I know about it

 

[born3]

I accepted it beacuse after reading I ran out of arguments...

Fair enough. It took me a very long time to admit that I was an addict in this area.

If I really have an addiction I'd put more attention to the dopamine thing. It's very little what I know about it

That makes sense.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

It took me a very long time to admit that I was an addict in this area.

How long?
How did you realize it?

 

[Deleted Account]

Are you performing actions which are against your conscience and you feel powerless to stop them?

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

Are you performing actions which are against your conscience

Yes, actions against my values and what I believe is good and right

you feel powerless to stop them?

Sometimes.
The problem is sometimes the urges and/or thoughts I have about such actions make that my will change from "I don't want to do it" to "I want to do it". Or I get tired to resist and I give in.


Update:
I need to add sometimes I want and don't want at the same time...

 

[Deleted Account]

Yes, actions against my values and what I believe is good and right

Sometimes.
The problem is sometimes the urges and/or thoughts I have about such actions make that my will change from "I don't want to do it" to "I want to do it". Or I get tired to resist and I give in.

Hmmm. Seems different than what I witnessed from your earlier post…

I don’t know of any non-addicts that make posts like that, just saying.

What’s your hang-up with acknowledging you’re an addict? If you are one so what? It doesn’t make you less of a person. It doesn’t mean you’re unlovable or gross. You’re wounded and need healing.

 

[Mara Diamond Lily]

Seems different than what I witnessed from your earlier post…

Why different? I was in one of these moments I mentioned above. Simply I couldn't resist more the urge and asked for help...

What’s your hang-up with acknowledging you’re an addict?

Not sure... It scares me. I think an addiction is a very serious thing. Besides, addicted to what? Addicted to M. M is awful, so being addicted to it is awful too...
Also, I've diagnosis of depression, OCD and "maybe" soon I'll get one of ADHD (i'm being evaluated) And now add to them also an addiction! It's too much. It's painful, it's more than I can bear :'-(

It doesn’t make you less of a person. It doesn’t mean you’re unlovable or gross

I know

You’re wounded and need healing.

Oh, this is soooo true!