Which outcome would you prefer?

[onceaking]

This was discussed in Jonathan Haidt's book The Righteous Mind and I thought it'd make an interesting discussion here.

Which outcome would you prefer?

A) Being a supremely honest and fair person throughout your life yet everyone around you will believe you’re a scoundrel

or

B) You will cheat and lie whenever it suits your needs, yet everyone around you will believe you’re a paragon of virtue.

 

[onceaking]

If I am being honest and fair why would everyone think I am a scoundrel?
It makes no sense.

That's not the purpose of the exercise. It's getting you to think about whether you would want to do the moral thing and not be liked or not do the moral thing and be liked.

What do you value more having a good character or being liked?

Jonathan Haidt's view is people would much rather be liked than have a good character.

 

[Deleted Account]

Outcome A. What’s that saying, “no good deed goes unpunished”?

 

[Caffeine]

Interesting question. It's sadly not an academic one since these seem to be the only two options we have in real life.

 

[nomo]

B, while it's morally corrupt which is not a life I want to lead, I do realize that you need other people to like you in this world to be a happy person. If nobody liked you, you would not have friends, a good job, a spouse, children, or many of the other things in life that make life good.
It's kind of a dumb question in my opinion, because it's too extreme. Be a jerk and be liked or Be a good person and not be liked...not a very realistic scenario.

 

[USER_ERROR]

It's kind of a dumb question in my opinion, because it's too extreme. Be a jerk and be liked or Be a good person and not be liked...not a very realistic scenario.

That’s the point of the exercise, to see if people are good because they want to be good or just to have the reputation of being good, and it’s not even new, plato wrote a whole book on the subject (the republic). There is no doubt that b) is better for the individual especially if he has no moral compass which itself is given to him to encourage group unity. It is however only an option if everyone else or the majority pick a), otherwise the society would not function if everyone is stealing and cheating each other regardless of their reputation. So being good and having the reputation of being good is actually acting in your own self-interest.

But you can absolutely be though of a scoundrel and still have some people like you, have a job, children ect there’s plenty of folks like that and folks who like scoundrels, it is just that most people will not like you. A real life example is Gorbachev/Yeltsin.

 

[onceaking]

That’s the point of the exercise, to see if people are good because they want to be good or just to have the reputation of being good, and it’s not even new, plato wrote a whole book on the subject (the republic).

The author writes about The Republic after the exercise (I think it might have inspired him when thinking up the exercise). His view is most people would choose outcome B because people prefer to be liked rather than be virtuous.

A real life example is Gorbachev/Yeltsin.

There are plenty of politicians who could be mentioned. But it's not just politicians certain athletes, musicians and movie stars are jerks yet are loved by many people. Equally, there are people who are honest but are hated by many because the truth can hurt.

I haven't voted because I can't decide. I would like to think I would go for outcome B because I now want to live out my values but I don't like the idea of not being liked. If I'm honest in the past I've lied because I wanted people to like me.

 

[onceAgain]

B, while it's morally corrupt which is not a life I want to lead, I do realize that you need other people to like you in this world to be a happy person. If nobody liked you, you would not have friends, a good job, a spouse, children, or many of the other things in life that make life good.
It's kind of a dumb question in my opinion, because it's too extreme. Be a jerk and be liked or Be a good person and not be liked...not a very realistic scenario.

At the heart of it thats what it is the only difference is to what degree

 

[natalie183]

Outcome A