Why baptism is fucked

A group for members of all religions, or no religion at all, to talk about religion

  1. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    *Most.

    Saying all is impossible because "Protestant" isn't a denomination its a collection of 40,000 denominations differing on just about everything.
     
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  2. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Yeah, I didn't say all. I figured most was implied, since obviously not every single person believes the same things.
     
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  3. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I mean, that's kind of like saying *most* Catholics believe baptism is necessary for salvation. Sure, some people who call themselves Catholic might not believe in that, but that would be contrary to what the Catholic church teaches. As far as I'm aware, the Protestant Church does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation or that holy water is a thing. So sure, maybe some protestant people believe that, but I'm comfortable saying "Protestants don't believe that," in general. I'm sure everyone knows I haven't taken a person survey of every person on earth who identifies as Protestant.
     
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  4. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    There is no Protestant Church. There are Baptists, Lutherans, Reformed, Presbyterians, Unitarians etc... on and on. That is a huge difference. There actually is a defined Catholic Church with defined beliefs and a hierarchy.

    Protestantism is a movement within Christianity.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations#Protestant
     
  5. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    K. Sorry I didn't use the correct terminology for you. I'm pretty sure everyone knew what I meant just fine.
     
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  6. Breadman

    Breadman Fapstronaut

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    Just so you know Catholics do not think unbaptized go to Hell. Stop listening to all the anti catholic rhetoric and check these things out.
     
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  7. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I've literally heard Catholic theologians say that baptism is necessary for salvation. So... maybe you need to do some research as well. That's what Catholicism teaches.
     
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  8. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    Its all good. I think its an important distinction. You should join the Protestant group. :) we have lively debates and a lot of fun.
     
  9. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    I don't really use the groups on here
     
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  10. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    It does and they do. :) but also, not all unbaptized go to hell.
     
  11. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Well that doesn't make any sense, then. That basically means that they believe that "not all people who aren't saved, go to hell." What's the point of salvation then, if it's apparently not necessary?
     
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  12. Max Fisher

    Max Fisher Fapstronaut

    There are cases of invicible ignorance and martyrdom that allows for the possiblity the dead person would not go to hell.
     
  13. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Okay, so that's more of a rare exception, then. I wouldn't say the statement "Catholics don't believe that unbaptized people go to hell" is true just because of some rare exceptions.
     
  14. Hold it in

    Hold it in Fapstronaut

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    I don't think it matters to me about baptism. If God's got your number he's got your number. :)
     
  15. sparkywantsnoPMO

    sparkywantsnoPMO NoFap Moderator & Yeoman
    Staff Member

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    For background information, please see the Catechism of the Catholic Church as attached. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm


    Also, please note that in addition to Catholic Christians, the Orthodox Christians as well as many mainline (non evangelical) protestant denominations such as Anglicans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, and Presbyterians, though not all groups baptize infants for the same reasons.

    Your view as stated in the OP appears to be dependent on the premise that Baptism is merely an initiation rite into an arbitrary religion, as well as that all religions have exactly the same effect and it doesn’t matter which one a person belongs to. To the Catholic Christian however, Baptism is understood to provide actual graces. Forgoing Baptism would be akin to forgoing vaccines because the parent wants the child to decide when they grow up.

    That being said, is a baby who isn’t Baptized banished to hell? There isn’t a revelation on where infants would go, but considering they had not committed any personal sin, there is reasonable assurance that no they are not going to hell. Historically, there has been speculation that they could be in a limbo, a natural (as opposed to supernatural paradise), but that has always been speculation and there is no definitive basis for that. Modern understanding would indicate as they had not yet made a free will decision to turn from God that they likely attain Heaven.

    As to the thought that children should grow and pick what they want (implying it doesn’t matter), it is true that there’s plenty of overlap, particularly in present day religions. Billions believe in a monotheistic God even though they disagree on particulars (Judaism, Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant), and Islam are three major ones), most rally against the unjust treatment of people, and so on. Objectively, there is a correct answer. Either one group (which could include Athiests) are correct, one group is very close, or a yet undiscovered view is correct. Christians, especially the majority which are represented by the Catholic and Orthodox denominations, have almost two thousand years of research, history, philosophy, and knowledge passed down to make a strong case for their argument. There are numerous Apologetic resources that discuss the cases, building a case that is reasonable, not just an “I believe” statement.
     
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  16. Anubis Rises

    Anubis Rises Fapstronaut

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    i beleive it doesnt really matter what religion baptizes you, at least your baptized you now have a protective aura on you against evil, has nothing to do with the religion , at a spiritual view of it, i was baptized as baby an i have nothing to do with religions at this point i just beleive in god thats all, i rememver as a kid i use to see bad entities, this one time i seen a gargoyle looking thing peeking at me in a closet then a loud but authoritative voice spoke to me, it told me not to be afraid they cant hurt me
     
  17. sparkywantsnoPMO

    sparkywantsnoPMO NoFap Moderator & Yeoman
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    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P29.HTM

    Please see paragraphs 846-848 in the Cathechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). It’s more than a rare exception. Simplified, it accounts for everyone who hasn’t made a free will decision to reject the Gospel that God can choose to save them anyway, provided they respond to Him as they know Him. A good example would be that island off of India where the evangelist was killed in the last year. As they have no contact with outsiders, it wouldn’t really make sense for them to have a full understanding of all of Christianity. Infants (especially those lost to abortion) would also qualify. At the end of the day, it’s God’s decision at final judgment, and biblically and as taught, God doesn’t judge us on what we don’t know. But for what we do know and we don’t repent and align ourselves, the sin remains, so we will be held accountable for that.
     
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  18. Breadman

    Breadman Fapstronaut

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    Try listening to the Pope
     
  19. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Fapstronaut

  20. wethebest

    wethebest Fapstronaut

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    @Castielle i recommend not listening to the pope, at all
     

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