WHY do people KEEP telling people to do this?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Sam-_, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Sam-_

    Sam-_ Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys!

    Reading through the forums I always see the same thing over, and over again. You see somebody wondering how to prevent themselves from relapse, and in turn they normally get a response of, “find your triggers, and put steps in place to prevent the urges.” Every time. And nearly every time, if you read through further (for example in diaries or journals on here), you see that same person relapse, not just once but over and over again.

    “So what do you mean by this Sam? What’s your point here?” - Well, let me tell you!

    Maybe I’m wrong here, but I feel like we’re fighting PMO all wrong. The problem with PMO is that we’re afraid to relapse. Because we’re afraid, we completely quarantine off any hint of urges, swear to never visit them again, and achieve success only by being able to cover the problem and act like it isn’t there when in reality it’s still there, and sooner or later leads to our almost certain relapse.

    “Okay Sam, you’re making some sense here, but what other option do we have? This method is effective and people succeed by identifying triggers and avoiding them all the time. Why should we do any different if it’s working? - Well let me answer that question for you.

    While people do succeed in abstaining from PMO by identifying, and putting steps in place to avoid their triggers, this does another thing to us. Subconsciously, we become runners; we become hiders. We run from PMO, we hide from it, we act like it’s a big monster that’s coming to tear us apart, and the result is we’re scared of it. So when we encounter any sorts of urges we weren’t expecting, or our steps fail us, we relapse. Time, after time again. This is the point that many successful people fail: when they are faced with something they didn’t expect, they start to fear relapsing, they begin to panic wondering how to get out of this situation, they lose focus, and almost every time, they relapse.

    “Sam what do you suggest, then? This method has worked time after time again and relapse is apart of getting better.” - Well, let me explain something first.

    Rather than running from PMO, what if we try something different? I’ve put this into practice in my journey, and I’ve made it 43 days without losing confidence, without panicking that I’ll relapse, and without truly thinking I’ll end up relapsing if I don’t do something different. Rather than being afraid of PMOing and trying at all costs to deny myself feeling any sort of sexual desire I let it wash over me, and subside.

    The problem is that our feelings we try so hard NOT to feel are natural. We run, and run, and run from these feelings that we’ve associated with failure and because of that we’re afraid that we will mess up when we feel them. We distract ourselves at all costs when even the slightest hint of an urge breaches the surface of our thoughts. The only issue is... We can only run so far before we have to take a break. Whether it’s one day, one week, one month, one year or even 10 years, we eventually will have to rest, and when we do our cycle will restart. Because the second we stop running, all of that feeling we’ve spent so much energy trying to suppress comes rushing into us without a care in the world of the repurcussions and what? We relapse.

    “So Sam, what do you suggest, then? What do you do that’s different than me, or anybody else?” I’ll explain it the best I can.

    I don’t run from my feelings of sexual desire. I don’t bask in them either. I do feel tempted, but I don’t feel trapped. I don’t feel scared that I’ll fail and relapse. Why? Because rather than building my foundation on fancy tricks, or steps to avoid feeling something natural I built it on something that matters to me. Something I want more than anything else, and will give anything to have.

    So when I feel tempted, when I really feel like I could PMO, my body says one thing, but my mind and heart say another: my body tells me to give in, but my mind and my heart tell me that the second I give in, I lose everything I’ve worked for. I ask myself is one dopamine high worth a lifetime of joy? Is it worth giving up your future, your plans, your desires, YOUR LIFE for one more high? For one more quick PMO session? Because the second you make that trade— the second you decide that you want to feel that rush more than you want whatever you previously desired or planned, there’s no turning back.

    For me this is an all or nothing wager. I either walk away free from the chains of PMO, or I fall back into its open arms, watching my dreams, my desires, disappear. This isn’t, “oh darn I relapsed again, time to start another streak and see how far I make it this time...” this is war: I either win, or I lose. There are no half-ways, there are no short cuts.

    We have two choices: we either figure out how to avoid the enemy at all costs and in the end we hope to come out on top, or we realize that running and hiding isn’t an option. That being afraid of our opponent isn’t in option. This is more of a mind game than anything: the second you let the slightest doubt that you’ll fail creep into your mind, the second you begin to feel scared that you’ll relapse, is the second you lose. You might fight for a day, you might fight it for a week, but it only gets stronger. That doubt, that fear manifests in you and, well, you lose.

    So my question is, am I the only one who sees our fight against PMO this way? Am I the only one who thinks that we should stand up, and stop hiding from ourselves? Stop hiding from something that’s with us every second of our lives? Because to me, if we spend our lives running from the control that PMO had on us, have we really broken free of its grasp? Or is it still in control, just a different way?
     
  2. AxBlaim

    AxBlaim Fapstronaut

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    Man I thought I was the only one as I'm using this same tactic and I feel like I'm never going to relapse. I constantly challenge my thoughts on a daily basis whether it's meeting someone new or taking a cold shower. If I do get temptations, I can easily make them go away by asking myself, "Is it worth it?" When I was PMOing, I was socially awkward, had low self esteem, etc.. and now I never want to be that person ever again. It's a do or die situation
     
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  3. Sam-_

    Sam-_ Fapstronaut

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    Exactly! It’s so weird reading through everybodies comments explaining how they’re struggling to stay afloat, and worrying they’ll relapse when feeling that same feeling they’re afraid of is comforting to me: I know I can beat it, and that confidence turns into strength which turns into more confidence the next time. Every win powers the next, and so on simply because I ask myself that question: “is it worth it?” and the answer is always no.

    I’m still recovering, and figuring out who I really am due to simply not caring enough, or for whatever reason that kept me from exploring who I am. I was definitely socially awkward throughout my high school years which were plagued by a PMO addiction, and never got around to deciding what I really want from myself. Never figured out who I am, like I said above. Going into college has given me the ability to explore these questions, and I’ve began to change so much it’s borderline impossible how different I am now, than 3 months ago. This change in who I am also aides in supporting my confidence whenever I wonder if I want to PMO.
     
  4. Sam-_

    Sam-_ Fapstronaut

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    It’s just so sad watching people do the same thing over and over, giving the same advice.
     
    recon117 and AxBlaim like this.
  5. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    I am very happy to see that I'm not alone in fighting against that nonsense approach on this forum.
    People who relapse want to relapse. They haven't dealt with why they consume porn and so they unconsciously still attribute a high value to it. You can't fight your own will forever. But all the power porn has over you is given by you.
    Once you deal with your beliefs about porn on a root level you stop being afraid because you know you what you want and can therefor trust yourself.
     
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  6. bigboibez

    bigboibez Fapstronaut

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    How do you shift your mindset then lads? Whats the best way to think about it. I am a high functioning addict so it doesnt seem like a do or die situation, more one of a constant struggle. I need to quit for my sexual health and dignity.
     
  7. recon117

    recon117 Fapstronaut

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    Great Post ! Thank you Sam. This way of doing NoFap as you describe is so effective!
    Once you have realized what is working and what not it will be so much easier for you. As soon as you remove fear great things will happen because then you are acting at your full potential.
     
    AxBlaim likes this.
  8. recon117

    recon117 Fapstronaut

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    Read the first entry very carefully and make your on thoughts and then act accordingly. What do you mean by "high functioning addict"?
     
  9. bigboibez

    bigboibez Fapstronaut

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    Even with this addiction i still do better than almost everyone i know (grades, work, sports) and still have plenty of motivation. The only thing it seems to affect me is sexually
     
  10. Roady

    Roady Fapstronaut

    To summarize:
    Feel the urge, the need, and do something else :)
     
    SirErnest and recon117 like this.
  11. bigboibez

    bigboibez Fapstronaut

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    This is true. If you can just overcome the urge today, youll be good forever. The past and the future is irrelevant. Today ks what counts.
     
    Sam-_ likes this.
  12. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    The problem is your lust doesn't agree with you that you need to quit. The constant struggle comes from two opposing belief systems inside you that contradict themselves. One belief system comes from the conscientious you, basically the you that makes sure you do the things you're supposed to do so that you have a good life. That particular you already believes that you need to quit porn since a long time.
    But the sexual you so to speak has a different opinion about porn. It still thinks porn is great. It is not convinced yet that the downsides outweigh the upsides. (It probably uses your success in life beside your porn addiction as an excuse on why it "doesn't see any downside")

    This is every addicts conundrum. You have two options from this point:
    - Keep doing what you're doing and "fight" your lust with your conscientiousness, but no matter how disciplined you are, you're going to lose against yourself, because lust has a much stronger influence from a evolutionary perspective. The system of conscientiousness is relatively young, the system of sex is ancient. It's David vs. Goliath.
    - Or understand the full extend of your relationship with porn. Make everything about it as conscious as possible with brutal honesty. Name every single reason you can find that explain why you're drawn to it. Then you can start deconstructing the delusions your lust has through logic. You have to become of one opinion about porn. If you manage that things will get incredibly easy compared to before, believe me.
    Through that work you will slowly change the value that porn has to you. And eventually you'll stop standing in your own way.
     
  13. NicoRobocop

    NicoRobocop Fapstronaut

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  14. bigboibez

    bigboibez Fapstronaut

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    Okay, well I already know the majority of the time I have urges because I am bored/lonely. they are simply the only possiblities. So do i simply minimise my boredom/lonliness to reduce the urges? Or do I need to completely turn it on its head and make porn seem bad to myself. That seems very difficult for me to do. Surely, a lot of people simply fight the urge and get to the stage where they have a lot more control over themselves and their addiction has less of a grasp. Surely I just need to fight until the point where normal libido returns? Or are you saying that I simply wont be able to get back to that stage with white-knuckling because I still, deep down, want porn?
     
  15. ZenAF

    ZenAF Fapstronaut

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    I'm saying you're trying to reach the top of a mountain with a bag full of bricks. Sure it's possible...
    The problem with this purely scientific approach, which is what it is, is that you basically deny your own nature. You think your nature (that's your body and parts of the older structures of your psyche) can be turned into a slave that does your bidding because it doesn't precisely follow reason. So you think it's supposed to simply follow your rational, but it doesn't work that way. You have to understand your nature to work with it.

    See just by saying this:
    You reveal that you think porn is just great. And it is pretty good on many levels.
    But the point is if you think long and hard about porn and why you want it, you shouldn't have to make porn "seem" bad to you. Instead you will understand that it's bad. A bad deal. A day old cheeseburger for the price of $200. Sure still kinda tastes good, especially if you eat lots of them in a row you even get used to the otherwise noticeably disgusting aftertaste.

    Men are not designed for porn. Men are designed to impress women and have sex until our dicks turn sore. There will always be warning signals when you do things that you're not made for and once you understand them properly you will naturally (not through force) start to reject whatever's the cause.

    I still very much have an addicted brain if someone would inspect it, I'm sure. But I also sure know I don't give a shit about porn anymore. It doesn't feel grand or anything, it just feels like a dropped something useless, like sucking my thumb (which I only managed at 8!! xD)
     
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  16. seth

    seth Fapstronaut

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    This is a beautiful post. How come then, do you think I feel I can go so easily without porn for an extended period of time? But eventually whenever I get my first real urge (3 days later, 2 months later, etc) I give up on what I was working towards so quickly? For some reason it's easy for me to start a streak - so I am convincing myself that this process should be easy for me (since it is easy in the beginning)But this is false. I have some self-exploration to do...
     
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  17. Sam-_

    Sam-_ Fapstronaut

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    We can convince ourselves it’s easy for periods of time simply because during those times we are successful at running.

    You said you fail when you feel your next real urge, and that’s expected when we don’t practice fighting them. When we don’t learn to overcome them on our own.

    It’s definitely not easy, and never will be EASY however once you’ve got time under your belt it gets easier with each win. You can talk yourself into PMO quicker with 3 days free as opposed to 3 months.

    My suggestion, which has worked to this day, is to find something you want more than to PMO our first, and build your strength to overcome using that and your own will. After 30 days, I went from using that thing to saying no on my own, and because of that I’m in it for the long haul, rather than short.

    You want PMO, no doubt. But what do you WANT more? Friendships? Relationships? I ask myself daily, “is giving up my streak, my relationships formed, my bonds made, my life basically, worth that quick high?” Every time the answer is no. Every time I push through and stay PMO free.
     
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  18. Rairah90

    Rairah90 Fapstronaut

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    Man I thought I was the only one as I'm using this same tactic and I feel like I'm never going to relapse. I constantly challenge my thoughts on a daily basis whether it's meeting someone new or taking a cold shower. If I do get temptations, I can easily make them go away by asking myself, "Is it worth it?" When I was PMOing, I was socially awkward, had low self esteem, etc.. and now I never want to be that person ever again. It's a do or die situation.
    I purely agree with you Sam, its an awesome post. A lot of us a obsessed with avoiding POM. The tricky thing about it is that as time progresses in your struggle to avoid POM, your motivation withers and regardless of which boundaries you have put in place, the urge will be too strong for you to resist, and a replase will be inevitable. The remedy I suggest is for us to connect with our innerselves. To discover inside us the things that are worth fighting for in our lives. And that once we PMO, we shall never have those things in our lives. What's worth fighting for will always keep us going in times when temptations arise because then we are bound to face those temptations for as long as we live. Things that trigger us are all over, but what is important is to weigh" our what's worth fighting for " with PMO
     
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  19. Sam-_

    Sam-_ Fapstronaut

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    Exactly. If you rely on motivation, and distractions your relapse is inevitable. I try my best to preach that You have to learn to rely on yourself to truly break free, as it is simply the only means to a permenant end.

    I like what you had to say here, sums up my thing almost entirely!
     
  20. Rairah90

    Rairah90 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks buddy, Thats the essence
     
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