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Why do we become PMO addicts?

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by LOSEmyselftoSAVEmyself, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. I ask this question, in a rhetorical sense.

    I can tell you for certain why it happens.

    A person gets addicted because they want to escape.

    Escape from bad emotions, make good emotions better,

    escape from problems, lost a job, broke up with a girl,

    failed a test at school, kicked off the squad, whatever.

    At first, when we used PMO, it felt good and seemed harmless.

    But we are no longer at that place, are we? No.

    Because we kept turning to PMO to escape.

    But escapism has an effect on a person and their life,

    which is undisputedly, to make it worse.

    Everybody at some point could have abandoned PMO,

    but we turned the corner and lost the will power.

    Where? How?

    Nobody knows, and that is the stealthy way that it hooks us.

    It is through that same stealth, that as we examine our addiction,

    that we've already had problems set in.

    Ok, then we have an addiction and problems, and the problems

    start to stack up.

    But now I have all these problems, and an addiction,

    and I have no solution, so I'm trapped,

    and just that part ruins a man's self-esteem.

    Some say, that won't happen to me, because I'm strong,

    or I just like to goof around, it doesn't mean anything.

    These invincible scoffers who started out watching R-rated movies,

    are in short order having risky sex with strangers.

    But someone who reads this has an opportunity to try out the solution.

    It's called a streak, a reboot, and abstinence.

    When we think we can't close out the day without PMO,

    what do we do?

    We tough it out, we feel that pain.

    Then we go out and start becoming men.

    What is a man?

    A man goes out and faces his problems and tries to fix them.

    A man has to get strong to survive.

    Life only gets harder as you age.

    As a baby, life is a dream, there are no worries.

    As a child, you have to start learning things.

    As a teen, you have to get serious about the future.

    As an adult, you have to swim or drown.

    That's life, but you can swim.

    That's how we do it, one day at a time,

    we solve what can be solved, ditch the rest.

    One problem at a time,

    we don't run, we don't hide, we take it on the chin sometimes.

    But in the end, someone who is willing to fight,

    someone who will sweat, someone who will starve if necessary

    WILL SWIM.
     
  2. PerseveranceToday

    PerseveranceToday Fapstronaut

    343
    1,852
    123
    A miserable little pile of secrets!
     
    melville and Zapy97 like this.
  3. A man faces his problems and goes out and fixes them

    That's the way out .

    Porn addiction is stunting your manhood

    Put it this way , I got up early yesterday and, started to make proper changes and my mind started to develop a strong forward thinking thought pattern, somewhere to begin from and solider on.

    Couldn't sleep , had urges, fought with the idea of watching porn, did watch , but didnt pmo moved rooms , came back and watched porn for a few hours , surprisingly wasn't that turned on or even hard, so sat up to 5.30 am because of a fucking urge that wasnt that stimulating when I watched it,

    When you do shit like this it's one step forward 2 back . You break the momentum

    Not only tired all day , but less productive , all for a shit fap

    I don't know if I can't sleep that's wat ends up on my mind f
     
  4. Keep fighting, you'll make it.
     
  5. 1ANDDONE

    1ANDDONE Fapstronaut

    @LOSEmyselftoSAVEmyself

    First of all, 82 days is very fucking impressive. It means you are doing it. I agree with almost everything you say, especially the recognition it is difficult to quit. I disagree with one thing, and that is the "reason" why people find themselves what we call addicted (though I don't like the word addiction, because it carries a lot of baggage that I don't think applies here, and makes the problem seem huge, when the problem is a small problem. Difficult, but small).

    The brain is built to reward sexual thoughts with a dopamine high. As much as many here hate that, (as in using porn to get it), it naturally, serves the species well. (Not using porn to get it, but getting it naturally). It is the mechanism that encourages looking for sex, thinking of sex, and having sex. Sex is the way, of course, all species make their replacements, and naturally occurring, it works very well. Reproduction is the most successful survival trait any species has. It represents the ability of a species to survive, and even thrive, no matter how big the disaster is.

    There does not have to be anything wrong with a person, no emotional imbalance, no emotional baggage, for one to become what we call addicted. There really just needs to be a trigger for the dopamine high, a naturally occurring neurological reward/motivation event that we love feeling. For some, we can use porn to get that feeling we love, and for some, it may be the only place we can get it. For that group of people who use porn to get it, it is, for many, the most efficient means of getting that feeling we love, even to the extent of hating that we love it, and want to quit using porn to get it. In fact, porn itself is not addictive, it is the reward event, the dopamine high, that is actually addictive. And, a person does not have to have even one problem in their life to love getting that high; we love it even if we have no problems.

    So, the problem we have is really quite a small one; we are addicted (again, hate the word) to a neurological reward event. You @LOSEmyselftoSAVEmyself are engaging in the solution--simply not doing it. Easily said, difficult to do. It does get easier, then it gets easy. Do I miss the high? A little, but not so bad. Once you have trained your brain, through abstinence, for a while, for months, you begin to miss it a lot less, and then you start to have days where it does not even occur to you. I think the same thing might be said of a person who eats handfuls of sugar for yearss, then one day goes sugar free. Those would be painful days, especially initially, but eventually your body and your brain quit missing it, and get back to normal. It is not normal to eat handfuls of sugar every day.

    Thanks for the post, and please keep posting. You are almost at day 90, and, for most, that is around where the hard work really starts to pay off.

    Much love.

    W.
     
  6. Actualy, 1ANDDONE, I agree with everything you just wrote.

    Nobody really gets addicted to drugs, PMO, alcohol (which is a drug), cigarettes or gambling, etc.

    People are addicted to dopamine.

    It's a message few here understand, but I've written about it extensively in my journal.

    It is natural for someone to get addicted to the dopamine in their brain, it feels good.

    The problem is that when the dopamine recedes, the person is undergoing a "mini-withdrawal".

    This is why people experience social anxiety, or general anxiety, brain fog, concentration problems,

    lethargy, and more.

    Also the dopamine, when spiked, clogs up the synaptic space, and prohibits the healthy

    neurotransmitter that we all need, serotonin.

    When someone lives in a manner that the serotonin is moving freely in the brain,

    everything sharpens up, thinking, health, emotions, and productivity, and creativity.

    I realize that you know this already.

    The original post was just a motivational thing, something that helped me.

    Thank you for your insight, I'm going to follow you.
     
  7. 1ANDDONE

    1ANDDONE Fapstronaut

    Thanks for the kind reply. I got clean years ago, by which I mean I gave up reliance on porn to reach a dopamine high. I still get dopamine highs from other things, such as sex, eating, searching, seeking, but gave up the artificially heightened dopamine highs we can use porn to obtain. The key is giving it up for long enough to quit missing it, and, after a few months, people do quit missing it. It is not that they suddenly don't like a dopamine rush, they do, but they quit missing that euphoric high that porn can, for some, generate.

    Keep posting. It helps.

    Will I AM
     
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  8. Yes, the trick is to get to that point where I don't miss it.

    Sometimes I get there, but sometimes I'm in a funk.

    Still I've kept this reboot going.

    If you are having sex, do you think this is a problem for getting a reboot?
     
  9. 1ANDDONE

    1ANDDONE Fapstronaut

    That is a tricky question, and my answer has changed over time. It is hard to believe I first started posting in 2013, but, at that time, the problem was still not scientifically understood, and the solution was still far from identified.

    At that time, most of the guys identifying as "porn addicted" were virgins. It was easy advice to say have no sex during the reboot, because I was not advising them to give up something they were engaging in, any way. So, my advice then was not to have sex during the reboot, because, in part, they were not having sex any way, so they were not, really, giving anything up. For those who where in relationships, I was advising, have sex, but, do not think of porn or use pornographic memory while having sex. I don't think that, for a person having sex already, having sex during the reboot is a problem, as long as you are not using porn memory while having it. If you can have it and be with your partner, that is probably healthy and supports you getting back to where you want to be, or getting there for the first time ever, depending upon your age.

    Of course, a lot of guys with the problem, cannot have sex, due to PIED. Those guys, like the virgins, need to avoid sex during the reboot. Again, giving up something that they are not capable of doing anyway.

    If you can have sex, during the reboot, and it does not involve you using porn memory....My advice is do it.

    Hope this answers the question.

    Much love.

    W.
     
    FX-05 likes this.
  10. I honestly don't think it matters. "How can I make sure I don't look at porn again today?" seems like a better question. Not trying to be disagreeable. Just saying what I think is true.

    I have 0 days, not 444.
     
  11. 1ANDDONE

    1ANDDONE Fapstronaut

    @Garek

    Yes, to tailor your question...

    How do I quit?

    Quitting sucks.

    Quitting hurts.

    Quitting cannot be done passively. It is not, cannot be, a side gig. When quitting, quitting has to be, for those months, your purpose in life. It is not like that forever, but up front, it has to be what you get up in the morning and do all day long. It took you years to get here. It will take you, at least, a few months to fix it. A lot of people show up here thinking "I want to quit". Yes, but no. That is not enough. Wanting it is not enough. You have to be committed to doing it. You have conditioned your brain to get a fix by watching porn. You have to re-condition your brain to not getting a fix, by NOT watching porn. The solution is simple, and incredibly difficult. If you are looking for an easy way out, you are not getting out.

    What you are quitting is not porn, though it is. What you are quitting is using porn to achieve a neurological brain reward event, a dopamine high. Yep, feels great, which is why we like it so much. It is A-OK to live without that, I promise you. You will be just fine without using porn to get that. But, you are going to have to retrain your brain to live without it, comfortably. It is like exercise. You are just going to have to train your brain every day until you get used to it.

    The way you make sure you don't watch porn today is committing to not using porn to get high. You have to commit to giving up that high. When you finally make that commitment, it will happen.

    Much love.

    WillIAM.

    For the months it takes to quit, quitting has to be what you are determined to do. By the time you get to the point where you want to quit, and find it difficult to do, you really have to re-arrange your life. Quitting is a chore, quitting is a task, it is a job, and it is not pleasant job, but if you accept that, and commit to that, to waking up in the morning and committing to going to work at an unpleasant job, you can do it.
     
    PatrickJames likes this.
  12. If "to 'tailor' your question" is a deliberate pun I think we should be friends.

    I get it. You are either actively working toward quitting, toward abandoning your pornography habit or you are actively feeding it. It is not at all easy to see when I am doing one or the other until it is too late. Sometimes I will have a thought out of nowhere and some part of me is like "god dammit, I'm not going to resist the urge". Sometimes that thought happens hours before I'll get the chance to look. I suppose it is always possible to redirect and intervene, to change course. But when those dominoes start falling, I am not usually able to intervene on my own.
     
  13. 1ANDDONE

    1ANDDONE Fapstronaut

    It is. Best tailor in the quadrant.

    There are tricks to quitting porn, which, again, translates to tricks to quitting using porn to get a dopamine high. One of the best tricks is understanding that just the thought of sex will trigger a dopamine rush, and for someone quitting this problem, that is a problem. A lot of guys burn a lot of time trying to quit porn by not watching porn, but what they should be doing is quitting getting high by thinking of sex. Sure, quitting porn is part of that, but the problem is not porn, it is a preexting neurological reward and motivational event, that works just fine without porn, but by prolonged use of porn to achieve it, is conditioned to expect those prolonged profound highs.

    So, some of the tricks are essentially distraction techniques. Plan now on what you are going to do to occupy your time and thoughts with when, inevitably, the urges arrive.

    Don't wait until the moment happens before trying to think yourself out of it. Plan on it happening--those moments happen many times before this gets easy--and make your plan now for how you are going to avoid getting high, then. The plan could be leave your house, take a drive, go running, and when it comes to spontaneous sexual thoughts, develop a distraction event that stops a two second sexual thought from becomming a Wagnerian, dopamine drenched sex opera in your head. Me? I sucked my tounge off the roof of the mouth, making a little tch sound. Stupid, but it worked for me. I have seen people do something as simple as wear a rubber band on their wrist and snap it when a thought they don't want to happen begins to happen. Plan now for avoiding it then, because in the moment, if you don't have a plan, it is difficult to think one up.

    Now, for me, it's all easy. Day one, I had to tell myself "no" about a thousand times. Day one was really, looking back, about getting one day in without porn for the first time in, possibly, years. When I began quitting I did not allow myself to watch R rated movies, look at sexual but non pornographic magazines, etc. This problem does not have to be a lifetime problem. Once you fix it, you pretty much go back to normal, unless you go back to the problem. Don't be they guy here for three years lamenting he cannot quit. Truth is, that guy is quitting passively; just hanging out here hoping he will catch the cure. No one just catches the cure. The cure is self imposed pain for at least 90 days, but, if done right, it fixes itself. I have a thread here titled Get Educated, Get Tools, and Learn to love withdrawals. When I first quit, and I mean really quit, as opposed to just lie to myself that I was, we really did not have the concept of the "hard 90." Consequently, I went a full year, reporting clean at the end of each of 12 months. Looking forward to reporting clean was a motivator for me. So, not only by using distraction techniques and avoiding P and sexual thoughts, whenever I was tempted, I always had the thought that I had to make it to my monthly clean report. I also embraced the pain of quitting. I told myself many times that quitting fells like I am dying, but if dying or feeling like I am dying is what it takes to quit, I will feel that every day of my life. Not a very pleasant thought, but no matter how bad quitting feels, I can tell you, that pain eventually goes away, but it does not go away immediately; it takes months.

    Hope this helps. Beam me up Scotty.

    Much love.

    Will I AM
     
  14. I guess there are women here on NoFap...
    JK
     
  15. How do you intend to get off of dopamine if you keep having real sex?
     
  16. I will think on this. On really quitting. On a hard 90.
     
  17. 1ANDDONE

    1ANDDONE Fapstronaut

    @LOSEmyselftoSAVEmyself

    Hey Losemyself, thanks for posting. There are some basic concepts that I have (jokingly) suggested we make nubes test in to make sure they have them.

    Not only do I never intend to get off dopamine, no human being can. We are born with our neurology hard wired. We have certain drives, and get certain rewards, neurologically, often, whether we want them, or not. Dopamine does a lot, bit is a motivational neurotransmitter. It is why we seek sex, seek food, have sex, eat, want to have sex, want to eat, and get enjoyment from those things.

    Real sex, like artificial sexual stimulation, results in a dopamine reward. I never want to stop having that dopamine reward, and, in fact, if I, you, or anyone else, quit having it, we would die, for many reasons, but life would become absolutely unexciting, we would never have sex, and, without dopamine, we might quit eating.

    Dopamine is not the enemy, it is just the reason why some love porn. They think they love porn, but what they really love is the dopamine reward thinking about sex and reaching orgasm causes.

    But, back to your question. Most newbies who ask I advise quitting it all for 90 days, that means no P, no M, no O, and no sex (which of course usually results in O). You would be surprised how many guys are here who are not sexually active, and quite a few never were--they are virgins. Then there are the guy who want to be sexually active, but cannot, because of PIED. Not having sex is easy advice for me to give to those two groups of guys, because they are not really giving anything up they actually have.

    For guys that are in active relationship and boat still floats, giving up sex is difficult because they have a partner that continues to want it. For that group of guys I say it is OK to have sex, but cut out P and M, completely, and make sure you are 100% with your partner, and not using porn memory during sex. It is odd, but a lot of guys quitting still rely on porn memory during sex to make the whole thing work.

    I hope this answers your question. Getting dopamine in normal levels in response to normal stimulation is...normal. Getting dopamine by binging on porn, a super stimuli, is not normal.

    @Garek

    I have been here for a while, and also left here for years at a time. There is only one fix, and that is bending your brain back to something close to a pre porn state. That can be done by NOT accessing and using P. It takes time, it takes effort, and the most efficient way I have observed it happen is with the hard 90. A lot of guys come here hoping to get out easy, or, to somehow reason themselves out, or to catch the cure. There really is no way to reason your way out of bending your brain, because the problem is not psychological, but physiological. You are going to have to literally alter what your brain seeks to give a reward to. Currently, for many, their brains seek porn as a means to achieve a dopamine reward. The only proven means of altering that behavior to is cut it out completely, at least until the problem is fixed. After that I tell guys, once you are clean, go out and take your brain on a test drive, and see what you feel is a healthy way to live well and achieve a thrill.

    Peace.

    W.
     
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  18. An answer from the other side. This is so clear and to the point! :emoji_clap:
    I want to meet you on the other side :emoji_rocket:
    :emoji_alien:
     
  19. Okay. Hard 90. What about masturbation without porn?
     
  20. Look, 1, my brother. You are an intellect. That's why we're talking.

    Check it out:

    There is dopamine that comes from ACHIEVEMENT, which is not the same as a PMO-induced dopamine SPIKE.

    The dopamine level that comes from achievement is a small and healthy fraction.

    Spiking is the problem.

    The source is irrelevant.



    Of course nobody wants to stop getting that reward.

    Have you seen lab rats that push the lever for cocaine?

    That is all they do, push that lever, and ignore the food lever.



    Ok, you said what I said, I didn't read it all, I had to skim, re: dopamine levels.

    But I think that dopamine IS THE ENEMY.

    Think about this paradigm:

    If you never had dopamine from any source, what would make you happy?

    You would exist in such a way that life was levelled out.

    You would pursue goals that are worthwhile, but for that reason, not for the dopamine or excitement.

    In China, they don't go out and get drunk, have casual sex, and destroy random mailboxes for fun.

    They would practice archery, write poetry/literature, dance, play music,

    or some other healthy kind of fun.

    The reason you say you don't want to leave dopamine is because of that destructive paradigm.

    Every American is born into it, I've got it, we all have it, and in Europe too.

    This NoFap program is built to help people break out of that mindset stupidity.

    We aren't here to get a streak, make a million dollars, and go out and become addicts again.

    How does that win?

    This is about resetting the brain chemistry through abstinence.

    And as Alexander Rhodes says, "The cleaner the recovery, the better."
     
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