Why does our culture ooze with sexuality yet discourage men's desire for it?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by DaSaltyPancake, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    Wait what, are you saying if I see a woman, and she has half her breasts or ass exposed, the fact that she has half her breasts and ass exposed is not a reflection of reality? Huh? So when the sun is shining, and I say 'the sun is shining' according to you I would have just done an asinine-moral judgement on the poor sun? Seems legit.

    I don't understand how there can be doubts about the definition of "exposed". If you are wearing clothes, then you are obviously not exposing yourself. If you are wearing a tank top, then you are obviously not exposing your chest. If a woman is wearing a low cut dress that shows off her cleavage, she is obviously exposing her cleavage. Like I said, this is just an objective fact of reality.
     
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  2. DaSaltyPancake

    DaSaltyPancake Fapstronaut

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    It's because feminism is related to #MeToo. So, respectfully, it was not for "decorative purposes."
     
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  3. #MeToo may have it's positives and negatives but didn't many men come out about sexual harrasment at Hollywood too? I don't see how only females are to be blamed! (And if you are blaming them for exposing sexual harrasment in Hollywood then I have zero respect for such a line of thought.)
     
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  4. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

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    While I agree with your general premise, I just want to point out that them dressing that way isn't objectively immodest, moreso cultural.
     
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  5. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    Immodesty is a cultural category in itself. So I still believe it is objectively immodest, by cultural definition, yes. Back when we were simple cavemen and -women, there was no concept of clothes. There was no oversupply of food or mates. It was all about survival of the fittest and whenever a physically fit, nude female was spotted, it had to result in an immediate physical response to ensure the survival of the species. Now as we evolved, we became more conscious of our potential as independent-minded beings. And we realized the need to cover up body parts that would otherwise result in biologically-programmed sexual urges and interfere with the expression of our non-primitive desires/compromise our own identity of being viewed as sexual objects rather than people.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  6. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

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    That an interesting perspective but then what about nudists? A lot of them believe there nothing inherently oversexual about the human body and that it's just a cultural phemonon that has most of us objectifying others, not the inherent biological desire to procreate. Also, I can't quite remember which tribe it was, I think it was the Hazda, but the women didn't really wear anything to cover their breasts but it wasn't seen as if they were flashing or sexually indecent. I thought the advent of clothing was more to protect themselves from the conditions of weather and hazards in their environment than a sense of immodesty, but I haven't done a lot of research on the topic. Thank you for responding.
     
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  7. DaSaltyPancake

    DaSaltyPancake Fapstronaut

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    I agree that #MeToo has had both positive and negative effects. My point in creating this thread was the point out the hypocrisy that this movement was spearheaded by Hollywood. Countless women have made millions in Hollywood by portraying themselves as a sexual object. To me, it seems hypocritical that they now are condemning the sexual objectification of women by men. Exposing sexual assault was 100% a good. Nobody should have to go through that. My problem is with many women portraying themselves as a sexual object and then ranting that men are sexually objectifying them.
     
  8. That doesn't give you "as a person with power" the right to "ask for sexual favours in order to have work or progress in your field". It's still the same crime.
     
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  9. That's a different thing, I don't think it goes with feminism or me too at all. We need a new word for it maybe, because right now it's like you are saying "X" and putting "Y and Z" together instead of sticking to "X". They are all quite different things in themselves.
     
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  10. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    To me that’s the same as asking ‘what about flat earthers’ some people hold on to certain beliefs that are not based on logic and reason/science, who knows why. I’m not sure if you are implying you are agreeing with that idea, because then I seriously wonder what you think is the reason that you are here, why did looking at a screen with naked women make you masturbate? What according to you would it take in nature for body parts that exist for combining genetic material (have sex) to fulfill their purpose if not the physical attributes of the person carrying, nurturing and bearing the offspring? o_O You might just revolutionize science if you found out that sexual characteristics were actually just invented by society.

    Those tribes exist, yes, and the answer to your question is the Coolidge effect. Seeing the same female naked over and over again results in tolerance to visual arousal. And the same tolerance happened in our oversexualized society. Our brains were never supposed to see porn and women constantly revealing their sexual assets. We were also never supposed to have supermarkets where we can get all the food we want and more. But just because our instincts are desensitized/oversaturated doesn’t mean they don’t exist and don’t work anymore. When you are starving and you walk past food, your mouth will salivate and the urge to satisfy your appetite becomes stronger. But then when you’ve eaten a three-course menu, you gladly say no to a piece of chocolate cake. Or when you’ve just eaten and see food, you recognize that it’s something you desire to eat, but it doesn’t result in a strong physical reaction. The same thing happens when you walk on the street in the summer and see half naked women everywhere, a part of your brain does respond to the sexual cues and realizes it’s arousing, but your body doesn’t react strongly because you have overstimulated your brain with those sexual cues. Despite that, obviously people still have sex and are aroused when they are with a naked female (unless they are addicts), because as their testosterone levels build up, their sexual desire and response to sexual cues increases.
     
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  11. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

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    I wasn't trying to imply anything simply trying to learn and gain perspective by posing some questions that I find myself wondering sometimes. I've heard more than on a few occasions that the U.S sexual reaction to the naked form has to do with our obsession with sex and the novelty factor of not seeing people naked constantly outside of pornography, mostly from some people from France, so that raised some questions in my head. Like perhaps, maybe it has to do more with sexually flirting and giving more robust signs of sexual interest than just visual cues.

    I'd think that the tolerance to visual arousal wouldn't really exist for nudists if the coolidge effect is extremely powerful. At least for nudists that constantly are interacting with others or visiting these types of beaches. Same thing for the tribes when you consider they usually leave their initial group to join others when looking for their mate.

    You do make some strong points that I agree with. And thinking about it more deeply certain types of clothing such as corsets, lingerie or clothing that seek to maximize sexual characteristics would elicit a strong sexual response in most men. I wonder if this response would be seen in nudists too though. But ultimately they are a minority and most people in the world do keep themselves clothed, which could very well have the dualistic purpose of environment and curbing sexual desire.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
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  12. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    I’m sorry, I didn’t understand your point about nudists and the Coolidge effect. I have never talked to a nudist nor do I know any nudists, all I know is that they like to walk around naked. So I don’t see how that would correlate with sexual attraction to other nudists or lack thereof. My whole point is that a woman exposing her sexual assests will objectively be arousing due to biological design. Just like seeing food makes us want to eat the food due to biological design. And there is nothing we can do about our natural instincts and denying the reality of them is irrational. Yes of course, people who watch more and more porn will alter their neurological pathways that condition them to look for porn in real life, meaning to sexualize any female who doesn’t even want to be sexualized. But again, I don’t understand what that has to do with my point. It seems that we mostly don’t disagree.
     
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  13. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, we don't really disagree, I just wanted to see what you thought of the nudist perspective because you mentioned how a female's sexual assets would cause lust in a man's mind based on the visual cues, which I agree with for the most part. I just wasn't 100% sure because of the perspective of some others that believe thst people aren't exposed to nudity on a constant basis therefore the reason the sexual arousal is heightened might be due to the novelty factor. But the fact that it illcits sexual response at all quell any argumentation that nudity and exposing sexual characteristics isn't inherently sexual.

    We're talking about visual cues, so the nude body would cause sexual excitement for most, except maybe nudists because as you mentioned they're desensitized having seen more nude people/being exposed to those others erogenous areas on a more frequent basis. I was just trying to solidify my view by asking questions to someone that shared a similar view since I couldn't really hash it out on my own.
     
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  14. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    This was exactly my point, sexual arousal to sexual assets is supposed to happen, it is natural. Whereas sexual tolerance is not supposed to happen and unnatural, at least when it comes to novel females. The Coolidge effect (same female) is the only tolerance effect that is natural because it prevents genetic material from being “wasted” on the same mate and encourages to always find novel mates with novel genetic material to increase the chances of survival. And sexual "tolerance" that you might speak of in an oversexualized society is not actual tolerance like I tried to explain, there is just a huge gap between triggered mental arousal due to visual cues and diminished physical effect of those visual triggers. Desensitization =/= tolerance. I hope it makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  15. Di.Do.555

    Di.Do.555 Fapstronaut

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    I remember one of my posts on nofap was related to this topic and it got 20+ pages of replies.
    I believe women should be modest in what they wear.
    In regards to sex , men arent thinking creatures.
    Their brains are wired to be triggered by the female skin.
    This is beyond thinking.
     
  16. Hi Comrade,
    you are 100% right pal. The secret is to be able to avoid being aroused by such stimuli. Anger will only provoke lust and a relapse to PMO!
    I know it is very hard not to respond to such blatant provocation. But you must try.
    There are many modest women and men in the World. Sex sells and grabs attention. I am not trying to throw petrol on the fire. But one staggering example of hypocrisy springs to mind.

    This is the case of Roman Polanski. This man is a child rapist. Yet because he is a talented film producer he has many famous apologists. If he was a Trump supporter he would be crucified.
    Famous women who flaunt their assets think people are stupid. Such arrogance will be their downfall. As for the manginas who pander to them. They too will have to admit their naivete.

    Take care pal.
     
  17. I have a story.

    I'm a teacher.

    I teach a college class. There's one female student who always wore appropriate clothes till the last day of the class. What's appropriate, I know, is very subjective in today's world, but it's appropriate for the classroom.

    On the last day of the class. She showed up in the class showing her cleveages. Every male in the class was distracted. I am a TEACHER and I'm supposed to be NEUTRAL and I am... but that day I was so distracted and I was really angry that she did this. This isn't the kind of "normal cleveage"...

    Several students approached to me after class and said they didn't appreciate that.

    So that made me think. Ok. This is a college class. We are here for education. That means my job as teacher is to ensure the optimal learning environment happens in the class. That day wasn't an ideal way for the optimal learning environment.

    I get it when college students are young and horny. I totally get it. I was once a college student, I get it, but showing her cleveages very provocatively isn't APPROPRIATE in the classroom. It's so provocative that I could see part of her breasts and part of her nipple. I was so angry and still am to this day.

    Outside the classroom, she can do whatever she want. I don't care. It's her life.

    I love women a lot but in my classroom, please show respect to everyone. That also includes men because men can affect other women on how they wear too. So just show up in classroom and learn and have respect.

    This is something I will never forget in my life. And I know i'm not the only college teacher who has seen this in classrooms.
     
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  18. Why is modesty so important to you? There are societies where people don't wear a lot of clothes, if any, and they don't seem to have a hard time staying sane. This just sounds like another cuckservative rant.

    You make it seem like revealing garments are a form of mind control or torture devices. Sexual predators like Weinstein don't act out because of women's clothing, they do it because they are messed up. And didn't Kevin Spacy target young men? Also, #MeToo isn't trying to stop men from being sexual, it's about requiring consent and bringing attention to sexual exploitation and abuse. I fail to see the people saying men should "quell their urges," outside of maybe NoFap and religious groups. On the contrary, I see a culture which is DRIVEN by male sexuality. Look at all the ads, all the trending entertainment, and of course, the porn industry. Women who dress in a certain way get more attention, more clicks, more views, more money. It's just a business move. Thirsty men are creating the demand for women to be more sexualized.

    Most of the good points have already been made here by @PIEDSufferer @MuscularSherlockHolmes @FutureKing so I'm kind of wasting my time.
     
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  19. They are not worthy of being called "men"... Go look at ancient Greek wisdom. A real man has total control over his body and mind, so I don't know how come you have accepted this "weak and pathetic state for the human males". Don't include me in your senseless and illogical statements like these.

    Men have always been a thinking creature... From Socrates and Milton we have come to the men of today like Ted Bundy and Weinstein. Don't you think it's a failure of people to inculcate deep thought and knowledge (true knowledge, not just getting a degree) that's leading to this decay of ourselves?

    Also if you think "men's brains are wired to be triggered by female skin" ... Than why don't you go back to living like an ape? Remove all pretense of civilization. Live naked, in caves, eat fruits and hunt with spears. You'll no longer have the agony of being in control of your faculties anymore, in that case.
     
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  20. Yeah it's a cheap form of clout and money... It works because others let it work. So as much as somebody might want to blame these women for the problems in their own lives, they are the ones in control too, and therefore they are equally to be blamed if they can't rise above the menial and trivial.
     

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